How do you feel about being a minority in the church?

[Contra_Mundum_1]

It’s tough being a traditional, orthodox Catholic these days. I feel like I belong to a church within the church and I don’t like it. I hate the fact that I always have to explain myself to Catholics who support the division between the pre and post conciliar church and believe that old = best to be left behind, while new = positive and user friendly. I always try to explain that we have to stick to all of our traditions, go for continuity rather than rupure, avoid protestant elements like the plague, blah blah blah. I’m so tired of being called old-fashioned, elitist, strict, unreasonable, etc. I’m tired of hearing people talk about their preferences and rights when it comes to the liturgy, faith or morals.

I normally don’t rant like this and am extremely happy that I am able to go to TLM every sunday (my parish even) and that I have grown in faith in the last couple of years. But I find being a Catholic in this secular world very difficult generally, and being a minority within the church doesn’t help. I feel a bit worn out by it all to be honest.

How do you deal with it? What do you say to fellow Catholics who challenge your position and don’t understand what the big deal is?
Any words of encouragement would be most welcome.

 

[laszlo]

I believe in ONE Saint Catholic and Apostolic Church.

There is no pre and post conciliar Church, only the living body of Jesus Christ.

 

[maurin]

Patience, confidence and trust in God. Think of the last of the Beatitudes…and be grateful your martyrdom is bloodless and physically painless. There are some who suffered much worse for the Faith.

 

[GloriousOrder]

I feel absolutely terrible. As an atheist, I came to the local cathedral hoping to see all the stuff I’d seen in Gothic, Renaissance, Baroque, Classical, and Romantic art-history books. The architecture was something that made me imagine a solemn, grand, traditional, historic church. What I found was indeed mesmerizing (never having been in a church in my life), indeed, but I was puzzled by the table where I was sure I’d seen a grand marble castle in some old photographs.

It wasn’t that bad until I actually participated in a Sunday Mass. Weekday Mass was just fine, after all, since it was a “low” spoken Mass. The only music was the cantor singing the alleluia, and that was Gregorian enough. Now that I’ve been exposed to the most bizarre organ harmonies and banal hymn-sandwiches (procession, offertory, communion, recession), I have nothing to say but “oh dear…”! This isn’t anything close to the Church I saw in my paintings, photos, and engravings. I wanted to become Catholic because of what I thought was an unchanging and traditional faith of reaction; now, all I see is novelty and progression. The synth-accompanied, guitar-strummed Preface really did me in, and I feel incredibly lonely.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I feel absolutely terrible.

You are not alone. I feel terrible too Beauty was always a part of our religion, bringing us closer to God. I don’t understand people who have decided that it is not relevant and that we can do away with it. It’s like smashing the Michelangelo Pieta with a hammer. I’m sure there are people who think it is not important and that we’re better off without that pesky piece of marble.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

As an Eastern Catholic I too felt a minority in Catholic school.

Traditional, Tridentine Catholics stand for what is best in the Latin Catholic tradition, so band together with other like-minded Catholics as yourself and be who you are without giving a thought to what others will say.

I believe you will find, after a while, that Catholics will come to want to join you and become like you.

But do form an association where you are of some sort, even a Third Order, a traditional Rosary Confraternity or something like that. There is always strength in numbers and you can support one another.

It’s quality, not quantity, that counts!

Alex

 

[Dave_B]

… go to TLM every sunday (my parish even) and that I have grown in faith in the last couple of years. But I find being a Catholic in this secular world very difficult generally, and being a minority within the church doesn’t help…

If its any help, there is a lot more variety in the Anglican church, than the Catholic IMO.

I assume TLM is traditional latin mass. If that is your preferred manner, and suits you, than that’s great. (I also like latin, esp. singing, but am an non-catholic)

But others express their faith in other ways. I think what matters most is whether it is heartfelt.

At our Anglican church we have different services for different groups, traditional, family, and contemporary

 

[GloriousOrder]

At our Anglican church we have different services for different groups, traditional, family, and contemporary

Friend, though your good will is admirable, I think Contra Mundum is probably quite opposed to the content of your Thirty-Nine Articles. The understanding of the Eucharist between the two churches is also very different. You Anglicans call it “Make Eucharist”, apparently, whereas Catholics label that section the “Consecration”. There is a fundamental split here that cannot be bridged in theology!

Perhaps C.M. will point out that he feels lonely as a Trad. specifically because the Mainstream has gone closer to Anglicanism?

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

If its any help, there is a lot more variety in the Anglican church, than the Catholic IMO.

I assume TLM is traditional latin mass. If that is your preferred manner, and suits you, than that’s great. (I also like latin, esp. singing, but am an non-catholic)

But others express their faith in other ways. **I think what matters most is whether it is heartfelt.**At our Anglican church we have different services for different groups, traditional, family, and contemporary

I have to be honest here: I will never, ever leave the Catholic church. I know that the traditional Anglican service is lovely and I’m very happy about the converting Anglicans who will enrich the Catholic church with their heritage. Also, I don’t think that whether something is heartfelt is important. The truth is important, and that’s why I am Catholic.

My silly rant is not about the Catholic church, but about the current trends. I believe things will change for the better although it might take time. I’m just looking for some pep talk on how to deal with Catholics who have embraced the new aesthetic and who unfortunately make the majority in the church at the moment.

 

[JRKH]

It’s tough being a traditional, orthodox Catholic these days. I feel like I belong to a church within the church and I don’t like it. I hate the fact that I always have to explain myself to Catholics who support the division between the pre and post conciliar church and believe that old = best to be left behind, while new = positive and user friendly. I always try to explain that we have to stick to all of our traditions, go for continuity rather than rupure, avoid protestant elements like the plague, blah blah blah. I’m so tired of being called old-fashioned, elitist, strict, unreasonable, etc. I’m tired of hearing people talk about their preferences and rights when it comes to the liturgy, faith or morals.

I normally don’t rant like this and am extremely happy that I am able to go to TLM every sunday (my parish even) and that I have grown in faith in the last couple of years. But I find being a Catholic in this secular world very difficult generally, and being a minority within the church doesn’t help. I feel a bit worn out by it all to be honest.

**How do you deal with it? What do you say to fellow Catholics who challenge your position and don’t understand what the big deal is? **
Any words of encouragement would be most welcome.

Well first it is important to realize that everyone has their own opinion and theirs is always better than yours…
Where the problem comes in is in personalities. Those folks who are willing to live and let live are generally not an issue. Those who react poorly to opinions that are different than their own tend to cause the problem. And these are amply represented on both ends of the spectrum.

I try to embrace the diversity as God’s Will for us in His Church - So long as that diversity is orthodox and properly presented. I love Charismatics just as much as I Love Traditionalists. I Love the OF just as I Love the EF.

If I run into someone who has a problem with the legitimate and orthodox expressions of faith, and they are clam and reasonable, I will talk with them. If they “come out swinging”, I just let it go…Such people are not ready to hear the truth of the Church.

Peace
James

 

[Dave_B]

I have to be honest here: I will never, ever leave the Catholic church. I know that the traditional Anglican service is lovely and I’m very happy about the converting Anglicans who will enrich the Catholic church with their heritage. Also, I don’t think that whether something is heartfelt is important. The truth is important, and that’s why I am Catholic.
My silly rant is not about the Catholic church, but about the current trends. I believe things will change for the better although it might take time. I’m just looking for some pep talk on how to deal with Catholics who have embraced the new aesthetic and who unfortunately make the majority in the church at the moment.

I wasnt asking you to leave the CC Whether the faith is heartfelt I think is of upmost importance. Whatever church you go into you will find unbelievers and backsliders, nt just on the back row

btw as a separate issue, what to you are the benefits of a TLM. God bless

 

[zab]

youtube.com/watch?v=Vs6qZd_xP1w
I am so grateful for my Catholic Faith.

 

[testamentum]

Contra Mundem, I agree with you entirely and also find myself having to defend the traditional values that I was raised by to those who are smitten with modernism and who think that all change has to be good regardless of what those changes are,I have never trusted change for the sake of change myself.
Having said this I am fully aware that of myself I have no power or authority to challenge the Magisterium of the church and so I do not do so,however I attend the new mass and believe strongly that Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist,for He would not leave us orphans,yet I have to put up with Liturigical dancing,skits,twanging guitars and sometimes non-Catholic hymns.
In fact at my local Redemptorist monastry we had an invited female Protestant minister deliver the homily,suffice to say I would not go back there again.
But here is the bottom line, I could not care less what others say about my feelings regarding my adherence to tradionalism,I obey all that the Magisterium teaches as best as I can and await the day that all wounds will be healed.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I feel the responsibility to teach others. I feel sad when Catholics fall into false teachings and leave the faith or becomes indifferent to Catholicism. I always see catechism as the solution to the problem, that many were poorly catechized. Maybe because I was in the same boat. And I do not expect everyone to take the same interest I have in the faith by my own initiative. So I try to find ways to get other people more interested in the faith and better catechized. Sometimes it happens one person at a time.

I think those here who feel that they are lock-in-step with Church teaching should bear the same responsibility. Raising our eyebrows at cafeteria Catholics won’t change anything except create a rift and perhaps give an aura of being smug. If we don’t teach, who will? Its always our responsibility.

 

[James224]

It’s tough being a traditional, orthodox Catholic these days. I feel like I belong to a church within the church and I don’t like it. I hate the fact that I always have to explain myself to Catholics who support the division between the pre and post conciliar church and believe that old = best to be left behind, while new = positive and user friendly. I always try to explain that we have to stick to all of our traditions, go for continuity rather than rupure, avoid protestant elements like the plague, blah blah blah. I’m so tired of being called old-fashioned, elitist, strict, unreasonable, etc. I’m tired of hearing people talk about their preferences and rights when it comes to the liturgy, faith or morals.

I normally don’t rant like this and am extremely happy that I am able to go to TLM every sunday (my parish even) and that I have grown in faith in the last couple of years. But I find being a Catholic in this secular world very difficult generally, and being a minority within the church doesn’t help. I feel a bit worn out by it all to be honest.

How do you deal with it? What do you say to fellow Catholics who challenge your position and don’t understand what the big deal is?
Any words of encouragement would be most welcome.

I love the old ways, that is, the Latin Mass and everything traditional. I do attend both Masses and am active in my Ordinary Rite parish, however, the language I use and the way I see things are from a very traditional perspective. Over the years, this made me seek my inspiration privately through books and even saying the Latin Mass at home as a prayer. I listen to the old music, etc. I feel like I’ve had to invent my own way to have what I need. Recently, I became an altar boy again for the Latin Mass and love it! I first became an altar boy in 1963 when it was in Latin everywhere. I’ve been at this now for about 30 years. It was very natural to me so I would say it is part of my personality. Even apart from church, I’ve always loved history and old things.

 

[acarlson]

I grew up and was born Post Vatican II, but the one person who really introduced me to Catholicism was my grandmother who is still very traditional. Now don’t get me wrong; I absolutely adore the OF and think that Vatican II brought about many wonderful changes! But I can’t help but find the older traditions to be just as marvelous. To me, it’s not that one way is better than the other. It’s more like two expressions of one faith and one truth. And I do still feel very out of place when I’m the only 19-year-old wearing a mantilla at Mass, but that’s ok. To each his own! As long as their faith is honest in seeking to follow the will of God, that’s ok with me!

 

[mangy_dog]

It’s tough being a traditional, orthodox Catholic these days. I feel like I belong to a church within the church and I don’t like it. I hate the fact that I always have to explain myself to Catholics who support the division between the pre and post conciliar church and believe that old = best to be left behind, while new = positive and user friendly. I always try to explain that we have to stick to all of our traditions, go for continuity rather than rupure, avoid protestant elements like the plague, blah blah blah. I’m so tired of being called old-fashioned, elitist, strict, unreasonable, etc. I’m tired of hearing people talk about their preferences and rights when it comes to the liturgy, faith or morals.

I normally don’t rant like this and am extremely happy that I am able to go to TLM every sunday (my parish even) and that I have grown in faith in the last couple of years. But I find being a Catholic in this secular world very difficult generally, and being a minority within the church doesn’t help. I feel a bit worn out by it all to be honest.

How do you deal with it? What do you say to fellow Catholics who challenge your position and don’t understand what the big deal is?
Any words of encouragement would be most welcome.

I feel at peace,

Knowing that my exterior devotions match my interior reverence for the traditional things of my One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic church.

I speak up with firmness but also with charity whenever I see abuses or deviations from what is right.

However, my zeal for all things tradional does not and cannot take away my Peace…because my peace is not just an absence of noise or a turning down of the volume, or even an isolation from the clutter of everyday life…that would be a false peace - and idolatry. My Peace is Jesus Himself.

If it needs change…My Lord will bring about that change in His good time. My job, in the meantime is to pray - a life of prayer and a life of the spirit.

Aquiesce anima mea, in Deus salus mea.

 

[The_Old_Medic]

I do not agree with your position at all. In effect, you are saying that the Vatican II Council had no authority, could not change anything, and that the Popes after John XXIII (who called that Council) have been illegitimate.

You can’t have it both ways. Either the Council, in consultation with the pope had the authority to change things, or it did not. If it had the authority, then you are rejecting your church, and its legitimate changes to the liturgy, etc.

If you claim that the Council did NOT have the authority to change what it changed, and that the Popes from Paul VI through Benedict XVI are not legitimate, then you have placed yourself outside of the main body of the church.

You have, in effect, declared yourself as the arbiter of what is, and is not authorized (and you just might want to explain under what authority you are allowed to do that from the Pre-Vatican II Church) for the church.

It is either one way, or the other way. There is no in between on this. You have to take a stand for what you believe. If you truly believe that the Church had no authority to make the changes that Vatican II made, then find another church and stop calling yourself a Roman Catholic. The Roman Catholic Church has made the changes, it will not be going back to those old days, so you either adapt and adjust or leave.

I too miss the old Masses. I learned the Latin, what it meant and I could follow the Mass without a Missal (something most born Catholics could NOT do, by the way). The Mass was still in Latin when I went into Seminary.

But, I accept that Councils of the Church can change the language of the Mass, can change the order of the Mass, etc. They have made zero changes in Faith or Morals, they just made the Mass and other services understandable to the people.

It’s about time that those that constantly fight change either adapt or leave and form your own church. You will never, ever bring the Church back to those bad old days (and they were BAD OLD DAYS) when very few understood the Mass, there was virtually no participation by the Laity, and it was a rote ceremonial for most people.

 

[Warrenton]

The Roman Catholic Church has made the changes, it will not be going back to those old days, so you either adapt and adjust or leave.

How do you know? You yourself said the Church can change just about anything. If it can order us to jump around and gesticulate during mass, it can just as easily order us to kneel and remain silent during mass.

If it can order us to sing silly songs in English, it can order to sing serious ones in Latin.

If it can wake up one morning in 1965 and say, “What a lovely day. Look at all those birds on the Spanish Steps. It would be a good day to change the mass,” then it can wake up one morning in 2011 and say, “The wealther is cold and awful. Look at all the trash around the Trevi Fountain. It would be a good day to celebrate mass ad orientem, in Latin…”

As you said, either you have it one or or the other.

For a lifetime, some have had to tolerate every change that came down the pike with regards to the mass and other rituals of the Church. If it weather the clown masses, doubtless the Church can survive a few Tridentine masses as well.

Here’s a prediction: for the foreseeable future, you will have an easier time finding a parish where you can belt out a rousing rendition of Taste and See than I will finding a parish wear I can hear Palestrina.

Cheers!

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I do not agree with your position at all. In effect, you are saying that the Vatican II Council had no authority, could not change anything, and that the Popes after John XXIII (who called that Council) have been illegitimate.

I have most certainly NOT said any of these things. OK?
Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut, but please read the original post before you comment next time.