How do you feel about labor unions?

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They have their problems, but if it weren’t for unions a lot of us would be working for exploitive employers and not enjoying the fruits of our grandparent’s or parent’s role in using the right to organize as laid out by Leo XIII in Rerum Novarum(sic). Many of us would not have attained the levels of education we enjoy today and I might even venture to say would be working so hard to scratch out a basic living that we would not have time for something like these forums. It is a shame that there are so many that spring from humble families that don’t recognize the role unions played in allowing them to attain the status they enjoy today and who are anti-union. I grew up in Detriot starting in the mid-thirties and had older relatives on both sides of the organization of the auto workers. If you have doubts about unions it would be of benifit to read a little labor history particularly that stretching from about 1850 to 1950. Also look into the Church’s support for organized labor which was quite strong during that span of 100 years. We don’t hear much about such things today because our lives are rich enough that we have the time and opportunity to study and talk about spirituality and other issues instead of struggling to fill our bellies. The sad fact is that that struggle still goes on in much of the world including some places here in the US of A. There was a time when the Democratic Party strongly supported labor. Unfortunately they have dropped the torch on a lot of issues including the rights of the unborn. 🙂
 
Hi,

I think unions are important to prevent companies from taking advantage of workers. However, unions themselves must act ethically. I didn’t vote “necessary evil” because I think they are a good idea as a business strategy (again as long as run ethically).

Greg
 
My husband is forced to be a teamster and strongly resents his money being used to support Kerry. We get weekly taped messages from Hoffa (teamster’s president) telling us why we should vote for Kerry.

While I agree that historically unions served an important function, I’m not convinced they’re as needed now. Several years ago when my husband went on strike, the shop steward said that he literally wanted to put the company out of business. He was too much of an idiot to realize that without that company, he has no job. Most of the guys my husband works with want to work as if they’re just delivery men but get paid like a salesperson. It’s so frustrating.

Kris
 
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kwitz:
We get weekly taped messages from Hoffa (teamster’s president) telling us why we should vote for Kerry.
Kris
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Where did they find him at? All kidding aside there may be another one for all I know. But here in MI they are still looking for Hoffa’s body.

I have a history class I am taking now and have looked at a few different sides of the union.
The Union in the begginning was started for very good reasons.To protect the worker. In the early days the Knights of Labor worked hard to protect all workers.
Now the union has become corrupt like;
Machine Politics

Politics in the big city often corrupt receiving kickbacks from business.

**Cities were divided into wards.Each ward had a ward boss take care of housing medical, jobs etc. but they were expected to vote (D) **

Ward boss would be near the docks as the boats came in full of immigrants they** would see that you got a place to live but they would watch over their shoulders come election day.**

So to me it was interesting to look into the early days of the union and how hard the people worked to get workmens comp. insurance, overtime etc, today when I see the majority of union workers expected to vote for the Democratic party. Religion is not an issue, I winessed this from many of my own Catholic neighbors and relatives who are union workers.
 
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rwoehmke:
They have their problems, but if it weren’t for unions a lot of us would be working for exploitive employers and not enjoying the fruits of our grandparent’s or parent’s role in using the right to organize as laid out by Leo XIII in Rerum Novarum(sic). Many of us would not have attained the levels of education we enjoy today and I might even venture to say would be working so hard to scratch out a basic living that we would not have time for something like these forums. It is a shame that there are so many that spring from humble families that don’t recognize the role unions played in allowing them to attain the status they enjoy today and who are anti-union. I grew up in Detriot starting in the mid-thirties and had older relatives on both sides of the organization of the auto workers. If you have doubts about unions it would be of benifit to read a little labor history particularly that stretching from about 1850 to 1950. Also look into the Church’s support for organized labor which was quite strong during that span of 100 years. We don’t hear much about such things today because our lives are rich enough that we have the time and opportunity to study and talk about spirituality and other issues instead of struggling to fill our bellies. The sad fact is that that struggle still goes on in much of the world including some places here in the US of A. There was a time when the Democratic Party strongly supported labor. Unfortunately they have dropped the torch on a lot of issues including the rights of the unborn. 🙂
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All very true, excellent post! I’ve been a union member for 23 years, am Democrat and support labor all the way. Without a union I doubt very much I could work in the construction trades, since I am a woman. Go union!
 
I feel much like kwitz. I’ve never been in a union but my grandfather (miner) and grandmother (garment worker) were union workers all their lives. I think that unions played a key role in advocating for workers in their day, but I think that generally that day is long since past. Now I find them mainly a drain on unionized employees income. After all, a union is a profit making corporation all by itself and some of them make a better profit margin than the corporations that their members work for. My wife is forced to be in the union work (nurse) since it is a closed shop. She would much rather not be. The dues are a drain and the contract restricts the hospital’s ability to be as competitive as they need to be to attract and retain nurses.

While there might be some cases where they are necessary, my experience has been that most industries would be better off without them. But they are far too strong to go away.
 
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NightRider:
All very true, excellent post! I’ve been a union member for 23 years, am Democrat and support labor all the way. Without a union I doubt very much I could work in the construction trades, since I am a woman. Go union!
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Despite my previous post, I tend to agree that the skilled trades are one area where the unions have been and continue to be valuable. Particularly in their educational and apprenticeship roles.

Gosh, I hope that doesn’t mean I have latent Democrat tendencies… :bigyikes:
 
I have been a union member (Railroad laborer) and a son of a Union member (also Railroad laborer).

There is no doubt in my mind that from their early days of formation in the US until perhaps the 50’s they were a force that was necessary to give balance to the power of the producers. These producers, understandably, sought to increase their profits and often appeared insensitive to the basic human plight. As the 50’s and 60’s progressed these unions themselves became opressors, operating more like gangs, for the personal welfare of the leadership. This leadership entrenched itself and co-operated with organized crime to the detriment of its membership and society at large.

They have not kept pace with the introduction of technological change and without change are on pace to be phased out as a force in this society.
 
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Toni:
Where did they find him at? All kidding aside there may be another one for all I know. But here in MI they are still looking for Hoffa’s body.
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It’s Jimmy Jr. (at least I think so, but I’m more sure he is the infamous Hoffa’s son - not as sure about the junior.) I also think this Hoffa is infamous in is own right but I’m not sure enough of the details to repeat them.

Kris
 
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OhioBob:
Despite my previous post, I tend to agree that the skilled trades are one area where the unions have been and continue to be valuable. Particularly in their educational and apprenticeship roles.
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I agree, trade fraternities/brotherhoods/unions for the skilled trades do alot to further their fields and the skills of their artisans.

Unions among less-skilled laborers have stopped grievous abuses in the past.

But…

Can’t we agree that using unions is very often destructive, and amounts to fighting abusive behavior with abusive behavior? Doesn’t it mean something that from it’s very inception the AFL/CIO has been associated with organised crime and violent tactics?

Unions do have a good history of putting the kaibosh (sp?) on gravely abusive tactics when every other part of the system broke down (i.e., even John Q. Law was on the take, so the rule of law was not being properly exercised). But in as steadfastly legalistic society as we have now, where “whistleblower” is practically synonymous with “martyr for the faith,” do really need the cost of unions dragging on our economy and the flexibility of companies that are forced to deal with them?

I’m not sure I have the answer. It seems obvious that the corrupt status quo unions are at the least in need of some serious scrutiny.

Which is something Democrats ain’t ever gonna, no matter how weak their union support. They’re just fine brushing this under the carpet so they can get their “Union Yes!” endorsement.
Gosh, I hope that doesn’t mean I have latent Democrat tendencies… :bigyikes:
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Hmmm.
 
There are good unions and bad unions. I used to think that if the unions went away management would have learned from it’s past mistakes and would treat workers with dignity, I no longer believe that. Some workers like firemen and cops should not have the right to strike but should still be able to have an organized barganing tool. Unions seemed to go bad when the mob got involved with them. Here in Illinois some of them seem to be in bed with the politicians and they scratch each others back at the expense of the tax payers. Chicago has lost a lot of trade shows because of unreasonable work rules at McCormick place. You must have a carpenter attach a shelf to you display or an electrician plug in the power strip for your computer. Because the shows were leaving the rules are changing now.
 
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marcadam:
Which is something Democrats ain’t ever gonna, no matter how weak their union support. They’re just fine brushing this under the carpet so they can get their “Union Yes!” endorsement.
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Their use of them to trash, bash and intimidate Republican offices across the country certainly has not brought the AFL-CIO up as anything we need as it now stands. thuggery is thuggery and as a pro union person I’m ashamed of them.
 
Most unions support abortion. Therefore, I am strongly opposed to them.

If unions are a good thing, why to do they support hacking innocent people to death?
 
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Lance:
There are good unions and bad unions. I used to think that if the unions went away management would have learned from it’s past mistakes and would treat workers with dignity,
…has lost a lot of trade shows because of unreasonable work rules at McCormick place. You must have a carpenter attach a shelf to you display or an electrician plug in the power strip for your computer. Because the shows were leaving the rules are changing now.
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That is the problem. Unions seem to be counterproductive in insisting that NOTHING change even if technology or industry changes. I read that the unions are a major problem with the airlines being able to stay afloat. They have mandated various positions that need to be filled even though through technology, they are no longer needed. For example you have to have a specific level of mechanic simply to wave the plane away from the terminal even though that position is unnecessary.

Teachers’ unions are extremely powerful and they have been able to wrangle much better benefits than the rest of us folks who simply have to prove to our employers we EARN what we receive in the way of pay and benefits. Nurses’ unions shut down one of our hospitals creating hardships for patients who had to be shuttled to other facilities or had their surgery postponed.

Lisa N
 
I would not mind them, but I really think they are monopolistic.

Instead of huge unions, 1 per major corporation. Like a Ford Workers Union and a GM Workers Union instead of the UAW.

That would force them to consider the business implications of their demands, which is something that isn’t happening.
 
Thanks to OSHA we have no (ethicial) need for them.

I detest them. My view: If you don’t like what were gonna pay then by all means find another job. I’ve got stacks of applications a mile high. Those that REALLY want to work can, take what you get, or take nothing at all.

đź‘Ť
 
Both my parents worked in union shops all their lives and never had anything good to say about them through the 50’s to the 70’s. Out of their meager wages, they just thought the dues were another form of tax, like social security. Even the taxes were less if they made less, but the dues always had to be paid, no matter how little was left over. And the union leaders were elites, drove much nicer cars, etc. than any of the workers in the plants. They thought the unions were against them as much as the factory owners.
 
As Trelow pointed out OSHA and the FLSA have made most unions obsolete. Many do more harm that good to the employees they are supposed to represent. I don’t believe that all unoins are evil. However, the good ones are so rare and the need so small. We can be greatful for their historical contribution without having to perpetuate the institutions they have created. Their time has passed.
 
I personally support unions, but I know they are far from perfect. I’ve read a ton of information that explains their imperfections, and I’ll try to share some of it.

Bottom line is, the goal of the corporation is to make us much profit as possible and one way to do that is to keep cost as low as possible. On the other hand, the goal of the laborer is to be paid as much as possible for their labor. These are conflicting goals. The corporation starts out with an advantage, as they have all the money and power. The laborer has none of this, unless they unite with other laborers. So in theory, this should be a good combination if both work together understanding the other’s goals and to strive for a win-win. Unfortunately, it doesn’t always go that way, and we’ve witnessed more than our share of scandals on both ends.

One problem WITH Unions, is they breed exactly what they started to overcome. Ultimately there are those that rise to power in unions, and I think we all know what power can do to people sometimes.

One problem FOR the Unions, is underhanded tactics by outsiders. Does anyone remember cointelpro? This was a program initated and fueled by liberal Democrats to infiltrate organizations posing as members of the organization. As members they did everything from simply gather information, to create internal arguing, to actually initiate illegal or offensive activity in order to turn public opinion against the organization. Unions weren’t without their share of being victims of that kind of activity.

Here is a link to a very good documentary produced by a group from Canada that is based on a book: “The Corporation: The Pathological Pursuit of Profit and Power”
: thecorporation.com/

Here is a sad story about a union incident I bet very few people have ever heard of: rebelgraphics.org/columbinestory.html

There are good corporations, and there are good Unions. The objective is to know the difference, and use our influence and prayers where needed.

One of my favorite priests was the late Fr. Martin Mangan, and he worked hard for laborers.
catholiclabor.org/2002%20Gathering/Proceedings%202002.pdf
 
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