It’s called 'the Kiss of Peace" in the original Apostolic Mass, and no, it can’t be “dispensed with.” It is one of very few elements of the Mass that is the core that was given to us by the Apostles. Things have been added in later generations - the Creed, the readings from the New Testament, for example, but the Kiss (or sign) of Peace is part of the original that comes from the Apostles. It can be moved around, or reduced, but not taken out.Or even dispensed with.
There are two basic types of pathogens that make us ill, bacteria and virus. Bacteria can be on a coin, or dish, or a person. Virus need to be in a host to survive. They are like babies in the snow. Once they leave the host they don’t live long. We get colds from being sneezed on or from direct contact with a carrier. If a person has a cold and shakes your hand and you use that hand to eat a cracker, wiper your eye you get infected.You are way more likely to catch something in the Holy Water, since wet hands transmit germs to your face a lot faster than dry hands.
I believe it was the ordained ministers on the altar who do this, not the congregation. That is how it is in the Eastern Divine Liturgies. There is no sign of peace in any I atttend.It’s called 'the Kiss of Peace" in the original Apostolic Mass, and no, it can’t be “dispensed with.” It is one of very few elements of the Mass that is the core that was given to us by the Apostles. Things have been added in later generations - the Creed, the readings from the New Testament, for example, but the Kiss (or sign) of Peace is part of the original that comes from the Apostles. It can be moved around, or reduced, but not taken out.
The transmission of flu and colds doesn’t appear to be higher in Churches where there is communion in both species.There are two basic types of pathogens that make us ill, bacteria and virus. Bacteria can be on a coin, or dish, or a person. Virus need to be in a host to survive. They are like babies in the snow. Once they leave the host they don’t live long. We get colds from being sneezed on or from direct contact with a carrier. If a person has a cold and shakes your hand and you use that hand to eat a cracker, wiper your eye you get infected.
Hair is host to many organisms. If a priest or minister is putting his or her hand on the heads of non-communicants and then into the chalice it is most certainly a means of cold and flu transmission and other infection as well.
Hundreds of people drinking from the same cup wiped again and again with the same cloth is like everyone in the building licking each other’s lips.
While I certainly sympathise with the hygiene issue, I hate it when parishoners give half-hearted handshakes or wave (unless they’re far away or ill–but in the second case, why come to Mass?) even in the winter. It’s rude.
Your parish should keep hand sanitiser, or you should keep a bottle of it in your pocket during Mass.
Good question. I’m not talking about this person (although you may be more likely to fall ill sitting next to him, than by touching his hand) but about healthy people within arm’s reach who don’t want to touch anybody’s hands once winter comes.What if the other person is ill? Obviously ill, coughing, wiping their dripping nose on their hands? And yet he still wants to grab your hand. I’ve seen it.
A well-fed, ill-mannered ten year old boy wiping his snotty nose on his hands and wanting to shake yours is not exactly a leper.I doubt many lepers would get kissed on this forum!:hug1:
It is not an either or situation. Jesus comes to us and He enters each individual soul. It is not either communal or personal. It is both.We as a community unite ourselves to the Eucharist, not individually.
Jim
My daughter’s father in-law is immuno supressed. He has a donated organ and takes anti-rejection drugs. If he gets a cold or flu it is a serious matter and he gets ill often. The normal healthy person might get a cold from the snotty kid and have some temporary discomfort. For the very elderly their next cold could be their last.A well-fed, ill-mannered ten year old boy wiping his snotty nose on his hands and wanting to shake yours is not exactly a leper.
Being Catholic doesn’t mean jumping in front of a speeding train.
YES! Thank you for saying this!It is not an either or situation. Jesus comes to us and He enters each individual soul. It is not either communal or personal. It is both.
Even with the Holy water you have to have faith. Jesus healed lepers. I’m sure he can contain germs from infecting his faithful at his Mass. But like I said if you’re not faithful in this small matter then you are probably going to get sick now and again; however, I have never been sick from anything at Church and I never will because I’m not there to get sick, I’m there to receive Jesus.You are way more likely to catch something in the Holy Water, since wet hands transmit germs to your face a lot faster than dry hands.
We have to be willing to touch the sick as a sign of faith.The sign of peace doesn’t necessitate the shaking of hands. There are other ways of offering the sign of peace, especially if one is sick and doesn’t think shaking hands is best. A polite bow or nod is just as good. If othe people don’t understand your actions, explain it to them. Really, the sign of peace is not that difficult to perform.
No, when I’m at Mass I try to think about what’s important.Okay, so the Sign of Peace is definitely a nice sentiment. But I really don’t enjoy shaking people’s hands. Especially in the winter with cold and flu season. It would be one thing if it was AFTER taking the Eucharist, but it’s not. So you watch someone sneeze, then s/he shakes your hand, and then you go up, get the Eucharist in your hands, and in goes the Body of Christ and all of your fellow parishioners’ germs.
Does anyone else feel this way?
So you go to Church without the Faith that Jesus healed the sick? If you don’t believe you don’t have the protection of God. In all the years I’ve gone to church I’ve never once gotten sick. I have never gotten sick because I have faith that a Church is a place of worship and not an infirmary.My daughter’s father in-law is immuno supressed. He has a donated organ and takes anti-rejection drugs. If he gets a cold or flu it is a serious matter and he gets ill often. The normal healthy person might get a cold from the snotty kid and have some temporary discomfort. For the very elderly their next cold could be their last.
A friend of mine specializes in anti-terrorism. Among other things he studies how bioterrorism might be enacted and countered. Some years ago he spoke in front of a group of about 300 people, consisting of ambasadors, the vice-president at the time, various administration federal officials and secretaries. He spoke about how pathogens might deliberately be spred quickly through any population. Seceretly, he put a chemical on his right hand before entering the hall. People he knew and to whom he was introduced shook his hand. They shook the hands of others. At the conclusion of his talk he told the audience that on the way out the door they should put their hand under a black light to see if they were infected, or came in contact with what could have been a deliberate attempt to infect them with some deadly pathogen. The harmless chemical was visible under the light.
Every person in the room lit up including the VP of the United States and his secret service body guards there to protect him.
There is a difference between being a germophobe and being prudent.
Another friend is an usher at a local parish. He knows everyone and greets everyone with a handshake. When I go there I am glad to see him and shake his hand, but am also aware that this means I have indirect contact with numerous sick people. I don’t carry sanitizer, but accept the risk. Today I have a bit of a sore throat coming on and slightly swollen glands. Should I be physically contacting my fellow parishoners? When people greet me and put their hand out and I am sick I tell them not to shake my hand, because I don’t want to make them sick. Many will grab my hand anyway and say they do not care and go off and greet others. Is that prudent?
My daughter is an RN working in a hospital in labor and delivery. She is trained to wash her hands every time she leaves a patient’s room, which could be dozens of times in a 12 hour shift, and her patients are not even sick.
It seems like we take all of this information about how disease is spred and how the spred can be prevented and throw it out the window when we go to Church.
So what if the snotty kid is not a leper. He is infectous and his parents should keep his nose wiped and keep him away from others until he is well, or better yet, keep him home.