How Do You Feel About These Things In The Mass?

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Generally speaking what do you think of the following things within the context of the Pauline Mass within the USA?

use of the orans posture by the laity?

holding hands at the Lord’s Prayer?

processing up for a blessing when unable to receive communion?

processional cross without corpus when used in conjunction with an altar crucifix??

female servers?

female cantors?

the non-use of sanctus bells?

location of the tabernacle outside the sanctuary?

liturgical music featuring guitars and a bass?

communion in hand?

EPs other than the Roman Canon?
 
Generally speaking what do you think of the following things within the context of the Pauline Mass within the USA?

use of the orans posture by the laity?

holding hands at the Lord’s Prayer?

processing up for a blessing when unable to receive communion?

processional cross without corpus when used in conjunction with an altar crucifix??

female servers?

female cantors?

the non-use of sanctus bells?

location of the tabernacle outside the sanctuary?

liturgical music featuring guitars and a bass?

communion in hand?
For people’s views on this do a search and join the already existing hundreds of threads on these topics. What’s the point in starting another one. There are threads on ALL of the things you mentioned.
 
For people’s views on this do a search and join the already existing hundreds of threads on these topics. What’s the point in starting another one. There are threads on ALL of the things you mentioned.
But no comprehensive poll that I know of…
 
Generally speaking what do you think of the following things within the context of the Pauline Mass within the USA?

use of the orans posture by the laity? I don’t use the orans posture, but if it’s that big of a problem, then maybe our priests need to say something

holding hands at the Lord’s Prayer? I hold hands with my family or others when offered, but I don’t reach out and grab, and I’m perfectly OK holding my own hands

processing up for a blessing when unable to receive communion? I’m OK with it for children, who are processing with parents anyways.

processional cross without corpus when used in conjunction with an altar crucifix?? don’t care for it

female servers?thanks goodness for them

female cantors?happy to have them, and female lectors, too

the non-use of sanctus bells? my very traditional, by-the-book pastor chooses not to use the bells, but I have rarely seen a more reverent Mass; I missed them when he first arrived, though

location of the tabernacle outside the sanctuary?I like to see the tabernacle in the sanctuary

liturgical music featuring guitars and a bass? not at every Mass, but it doesn’t bother me - I think people should have a choice of musical styles

communion in hand? prefer it

EPs other than the Roman Canon? glad to have them

But my opinion matters how much?? Not at all.
 
I may not like all of the mentioned items. I may think they are bad ideas. But I wouldn’t call any of them abusive.
 
Generally speaking what do you think of the following things within the context of the Pauline Mass within the USA?

use of the orans posture by the laity? I don’t use the orans posture, but if it’s that big of a problem, then maybe our priests need to say something

holding hands at the Lord’s Prayer? I hold hands with my family or others when offered, but I don’t reach out and grab, and I’m perfectly OK holding my own hands

processing up for a blessing when unable to receive communion? I’m OK with it for children, who are processing with parents anyways.

processional cross without corpus when used in conjunction with an altar crucifix?? don’t care for it

female servers?thanks goodness for them

female cantors?happy to have them, and female lectors, too

the non-use of sanctus bells? my very traditional, by-the-book pastor chooses not to use the bells, but I have rarely seen a more reverent Mass; I missed them when he first arrived, though

location of the tabernacle outside the sanctuary?I like to see the tabernacle in the sanctuary

liturgical music featuring guitars and a bass? not at every Mass, but it doesn’t bother me - I think people should have a choice of musical styles

communion in hand? prefer it

EPs other than the Roman Canon? glad to have them

But my opinion matters how much?? Not at all.
Nice posting… 👍
 
I don’t think any of them are abuses although the blessing at Communion & the hand holding make no sense liturgically.

I have absolutely no problem with female cantors and altar servers; tabernacles outside the sanctuary as long as their setting meets the requirements of the Church; the orans position for those who feel so inclined; the corpus-free processional cross; the lack of Sanctus bells (we haven’t had them in the last 3 or 4 parishes I’ve been a member of except perhaps on Holy Thursday and at the Vigil); communion in the hand and other EPs.

Bass and electric guitar annoy me but I’ve been in parishes where it was that or no music since we had nobody to play the organ or the piano. I dislike amateur guitar strumming as well. Bad organ playing is just as annoying.
 
A poll combining all of these is ridiculous. What criteria have you used (things that you personally don’t like)? Some are permitted and some are not. I may feel positively about some and negatively about others.
 
Wow, a loaded “poll” [edited]. How should I respond? I can’t. The assumption is that all of these things go together, therefore a person who loves one of the items loves another. I’m not falling for this flamebait; I suggest others ignore it as well.
 
A poll combining all of these is ridiculous. What criteria have you used (things that you personally don’t like)? Some are permitted and some are not. I may feel positively about some and negatively about others.
Yet you still responded…

“Criteria?” I simply grouped together those things that I find to be complained about most on these forums which are not in fact abuses.

And no, none of the items I listed are prohibited…
 
Generally speaking what do you think of the following things within the context of the Pauline Mass within the USA?

use of the orans posture by the laity? In our diocese this doesn’t happen much because the bishop and the Director of Liturgy (a priest, so you should be happy) have catechized on why this should not be.

holding hands at the Lord’s Prayer? In our diocese this doesn’t happen much because the bishop and the Director of Liturgy (a priest, so you should be happy) have catechized on why this should not be.

processing up for a blessing when unable to receive communion? There is no dubium or ruling on this at present to the knowledge of my diocese, which is pretty up on that sort of thing. The proof has to come from you that it is an abuse. In our diocese, EMHCs (which I’m surprised you missed, given your posts) are not allowed to bless anybody, not even small children not yet communing.

processional cross without corpus when used in conjunction with an altar crucifix?? In our diocese this doesn’t happen much because the bishop and the Director of Liturgy (a priest, so you should be happy) have catechized on why this should not be.

female servers? These are allowed. The proof has to come from you that it is an abuse.

female cantors? These are allowed. The proof has to come from you that it is an abuse.
the non-use of sanctus bells? These are not mandatory. **The proof has to come from you that it is an abuse. **However, in our diocese this doesn’t happen much because the bishop and the Director of Liturgy (a priest, so you should be happy) have catechized on why this should not be.

location of the tabernacle outside the sanctuary? This is allowed in certain circumstances. A good example is churches where tourists take tours, and the Blessed Sacrament is reposed in a side chapel. **The proof has to come from you that it is an abuse. **However, in our diocese this doesn’t happen much because the bishop and the Director of Liturgy (a priest, so you should be happy) have catechized on why this should not be in most circumstances.

liturgical music featuring guitars and a bass? I prefer a quiet Mass*** without*** ANY music, which is why our family attends at 0730 AM.

communion in hand? This is not an abuse. There is an indult for it.

EPs other than the Roman Canon? There are many authorized EPs in the US.
There is no possible way to poll in this matter and get accurate results. It’s an all-or-nothing proposition. Your data will be skewed the way the poll is set up. Instead, each item should be voted separately, yes or no. An example would be, “Communion the hand- yes” and another checkbox for “Communion in the hand- no”. Radio button surveys simply do not work, as their is only one choice.

So, rather than vote, I’ll simply let my comments speak for themselves.
 
don’t care a bit, my responsibility is not liturgy, I let Father do his job and keep my mouth shut, esp. since I would be commenting on a subject in which I am not an authority. My only concern is with legitimate liturgical abuse, and none of these qualify.

and I value my spiritual health too much to allow it to be damaged by concern over these non-essentials. This fretting over minutiae is a sure path to sprirital malaise, keep it up if your goal is pleasing the enemy.
 
Yet you still responded…

“Criteria?” I simply grouped together those things that I find to be complained about most on these forums which are not in fact abuses.

And no, none of the items I listed are prohibited…
It depends on your definition of an abuse. Some of these things are not called for in the rubrics. In most cases, what is not called for should not be done even if not ‘prohibited’. I wouldn’t call the things you have listed ‘abuses’ however.

For instance, the entire congregation holding hands is not to be done. This was a directive from the bishop based on an answer from Rome. If a priest in my diocese directs the congregation to hold hands I might consider it an abuse, I would feel abused, however it doesn’t affect the validity of the mass.

My pastor has told us that he doesn’t bless people at communion time because ‘he isn’t supposed to’ (in other words, the rubrics don’t call for it to be done) but that he will bless children and adults after mass if they wish. I consider what he does to be proper. However, another pastor does bless people at the Spanish mass because many of those people don’t receive communion. This isn’t called for in the GIRM but, in this case, I don’t consider it improper but a pastoral decision.

I didn’t respond to the poll because of the way it was presented.
 
There is no possible way to poll in this matter and get accurate results. It’s an all-or-nothing proposition. Your data will be skewed the way the poll is set up. Instead, each item should be voted separately, yes or no. An example would be, “Communion the hand- yes” and another checkbox for “Communion in the hand- no”. Radio button surveys simply do not work, as their is only one choice.

So, rather than vote, I’ll simply let my comments speak for themselves.
Just what do you mean “accurate results?” You cannot say the “data will be skewed the way the poll is set up” because I never defined what I was polling for.

I’ve studied statistics at the graduate level and I would be the first to agree this poll was not scientifically constructed. But given my basic understanding of the folks who frequent these forums, it is beginning to tell me something…
 
don’t care a bit, my responsibility is not liturgy, I let Father do his job and keep my mouth shut, esp. since I would be commenting on a subject in which I am not an authority. My only concern is with legitimate liturgical abuse, and none of these qualify.

**and I value my spiritual health too much to allow it to be damaged **by concern over these non-essentials. This fretting over minutiae is a sure path to sprirital malaise, keep it up if your goal is pleasing the enemy.
Wow! Powerful statements indeed. You seem to “get it.” 👍
 
Generally speaking what do you think of the following things within the context of the Pauline Mass within the USA?

use of the orans posture by the laity? is not approved of but does not make the Mass invalid

holding hands at the Lord’s Prayer? disruptive if someone insists and spreads germs

processing up for a blessing when unable to receive communion? is not approved, might make the processing in and out of the pews easier, does not change the Mass

processional cross without corpus when used in conjunction with an altar crucifix?? nope the processional Cross should always include the Corpus we are Catholic you know

female servers? allowed, personally don’t like it

female cantors? allowed, should not be on the altar but down one step

the non-use of Sanctus bells? allowed both ways, miss them when not used

location of the tabernacle outside the sanctuary? should not be allowed IMHO I dislike having to search for the Tabernacle

liturgical music featuring guitars and a bass? hard on the ears

communion in hand? allowed, I won’t do it, I do not think that after my hands have been on the pews etc that I am clean enough to receive in my human hands

EPs other than the Roman Canon?
 
Generally speaking what do you think of the following things within the context of the Pauline Mass within the USA?

use of the orans posture by the laity?until now i didn’t even know what that was, after research, only a preist should do it

holding hands at the Lord’s Prayer?we shouldn’t, only stand in in the GRIM

processing up for a blessing when unable to receive communion?never though of this before, but I don’t see a problem

processional cross without corpus when used in conjunction with an altar crucifix???

female servers?I disagree with women participating in the mass, and yes I am a woman

female cantors?same as above

the non-use of sanctus bells???

location of the tabernacle outside the sanctuary?it should be inside

liturgical music featuring guitars and a bass? ABSOLUTELY hate it, one of the churches here does it and I can’t stand it, makes the mass less reverent and more like a TV evang show

communion in hand?disagree, I should not touch it with my hands at all

EPs other than the Roman Canon???
I plan on doing more research on these questions, thanks for asking them
 
Generally speaking what do you think of the following things within the context of the Pauline Mass within the USA?
Reply
use of the orans posture by the laity?
By the celebrant only
holding hands at the Lord’s Prayer?
No
processing up for a blessing when unable to receive communion?
One assumes Mass attendance is to gain additional graces, I feel this is “OK”
processional cross without corpus when used in conjunction with an altar crucifix??
I’m going to say no, but altar crucifixes are about as common as hens teeth.
female servers?
NO! Altar boys have always been the soil from which many priest came. No priest, No Mass, No Mass, No Jesus!female cantors?
OK
the non-use of sanctus bells?
Use the bells
location of the tabernacle outside the sanctuary?
No, one of the leading causes of Eucharistic unbelief by Catholics
liturgical music featuring guitars and a bass?
NO, Mass is about Sacrifice and God, not being intertained,
communion in hand?
Tie this in with “Ordianry Eucharistic Ministers” (Extrodinary ain’t everyday, every Mass, every where), and you have the ROOT cause for massive unbelief, daily sacriledge, often a lack of piety, and laity doing what ONLY a priest and Deacon are Consecrated to do. This may well be the gravest evil in the Church today?
EPs other than the Roman Canon?
Sorry I don’t understand this question.

God Bless and thanks for asking,
PJM m.c.
 
** As I see it, the components of the poll are really not an “all or nothing” thing. In that respect, I agree with acadian in post #4 and OutinChgoburbs in post #11 in this thread, and will take the same approach as they, and several others, have.

Allow me to preface by saying that I do not voluntarily attend Roman Rite OF services, and part** of the reason is contained in some the the questions posed in the OP.

Generally speaking what do you think of the following things within the context of the Pauline Mass within the USA?

use of the orans posture by the laity? ** This practice has spilled over to some of the Eastern Rite Churches in the US too. But no matter where I encounter it, I never have, do not, and never will like it, do it, or encourage it.**

holding hands at the Lord’s Prayer? ** Ditto. I have only encountered this practice in the Roman Rite OF, and my opinion (and it’s only an opinion) is that it’s a relic of the “touchy-feely” extreme of the post-conciliar pendulum swing away from anything that is even remotely traditional, and as such I look at it as borderline abusive.**

processing up for a blessing when unable to receive communion? Personally, I see no problem with this practice, provided it’s done reverently. It’s done to some extent in various Eastern Rites, particularly with young children accompanied by a parent.

processional cross without corpus when used in conjunction with an altar crucifix?? **There is some precedent for this practice, and I have no problem at all with it.
**

female servers? ** This is a practice that I am not fond of for a variety of reasons. Ditto for “extraordinary ministers.” Both of these practices seem to me to be “politically correct” post-conciliar innovations. Fortunately for me, they’re pretty much restricted to the Roman Rite OF so I don’t really have to deal with them.**

female cantors? ** Here we have something similar to the above, but this one has spilled-over to the ECCs as well, at least to a degree. Considering the nature of the duties involved, though, I see no problem in case of necessity. Ditto for lectors.**

the non-use of sanctus bells?** The liturgical use of bells is grounded in tradition, both Western and Eastern. It’s a nice way to call attention to the liturgical action at hand. **

location of the tabernacle outside the sanctuary? ** There is traditional and historical precedent for this practice in both East and West. In Cathedral Churches in the West, e.g., there was/is often a designated “Altar of Reservation” outside the sanctuary, in part to help maintain the dignity of the Blessed Sacrament. In normal parish settings, I tend to prefer the tabernacle in a central position within the sanctuary.**

liturgical music featuring guitars and a bass? ** It depends. Instruments used for liturgical purposes vary by place and culture, so to me it’s not necessarily the instrument itself that I may find unpleasant. It’s the music. I have, for example, never been a fan of folk, rock, jazz, pop, etc music in Church, as practiced in the post-conciliar Roman Rite OF (and, regrettably, in some Eastern Rite DLs too) in North America, etc., and do my best to avoid same. **

communion in hand? ** All I can say is that I agree with PP Benedict XVI on this one.**

EPs other than the Roman Canon? ** While multiple anaphorae exist and are used in the East (particularly in the Syriac Churches), the practice seems to be to be a bit out-of-place in the Roman Rite. That said, though, the OF has 3 approved alternates and whether I like them or not doesn’t much matter. **
 
Just what do you mean “accurate results?” You cannot say the “data will be skewed the way the poll is set up” because I never defined what I was polling for.

I’ve studied statistics at the graduate level and I would be the first to agree this poll was not scientifically constructed. But given my basic understanding of the folks who frequent these forums, it is beginning to tell me something…
What is it beginning to tell you?
 
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