how do you feel about this Vatican II change?

[pnewton]

They never used to give the Precious Blood along with the Host… at every single Mass…

It seems that Jesus ‘goes away’ sooner when you have both…

Perhaps this question is part of the reason why a change was needed. The Catrholic Church has not always offered Communion under one species. It is a discipline that is free to be changed. The faithful at one time needed to be reminded that one received all of Christ in just the Host, so that was the mandated way. This is no longer needed. What I am surprised at is the objection to the choice being given to Catholics. When both species are offered, one still can choose to receive under one species.

 

[pnewton]

all this greeting each other in the middle of Mass, holding hands and all that… i hate it…

If this robs you of peace then it is good that you attend the TLM. For the rest of Catholics:

Matthew 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;

24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

[

[1 Pet 5:14](http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=60&CHAP=5&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=14)[ Greet ye one another with a kiss of charity. Peace be with you all that are in Christ Jesus. Amen. ](http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=60&CHAP=5&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=14)](http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=60&CHAP=5&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=14)

 

[pnewton]

yes, digger it most certainly did mention Cranmer, and if you know who Cranmer was, then you would know that he was the deformer of the Mass and renamed it the Lord’s Supper as part of his book of common prayer.

You’re tactics are boorish.

You criticize him for being boorish and yet you provacatively use the term deformers of the Church?

Matthew 7

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

 

[maurin]

You criticize him for being boorish and yet you provacatively use the term deformers of the Church?

Matthew 7

:IwillnotrolleyesIwillnotrolleyes:

so what do you call those who deformed the Church in the 1600’s? Reformers? The reformers of the Church in that era were only those who were present at the Council of Trent.

You get points for “provacatively” quoting Scripture, though. If you’ve understood those Scriptures, you get even more points.

Provacative’s a great word. good for you!

 

[tee_eff_em]

** They never used to give the Precious Blood along with the Host… at every single Mass…**

**Eastern Churches (both those in union with Rome and those not) have always received under both kinds at every single liturgy. **

It seems that Jesus ‘goes away’ sooner when you have both…

**1. What do you mean by that?

1. Where did you get this idea?

Does He “go away sooner” from the celebrating priest when he receives in both kinds?**

I hear an echo… echo… echo…

tee

 

[diggerdomer]

yes, digger it most certainly did mention Cranmer, and if you know who Cranmer was, then you would know that he was the deformer of the Mass and renamed it the Lord’s Supper as part of his book of common prayer.

You’re tactics are boorish.

Wow. Again, I’m sorry, apparently I’ve really offended you.

I thought the post I replied to was the one where you simply asked me if I’m serious. I didn’t see anything referring to Cranmer (and still don’t).

I also apologize for whatever causes you to think my “tactics are boorish”. I don’t join conversations here with any tactics except the desire to learn more about the Catholic faith.

But back to the topic of this thread…you keep mentioning “deformers”. Who are the “deformers” you’re referring to, and what have they done?

Cheers

 

[pnewton]

:IwillnotrolleyesIwillnotrolleyes:

so what do you call those who deformed the Church in the 1600’s? Reformers? The reformers of the Church in that era were only those who were present at the Council of Trent.

Protestants, for their protesting and rebellion against the Catholic Church’s her authority. This is what marked them, not the liturgical reform.

You get points for “provacatively” quoting Scripture, though. If you’ve understood those Scriptures, you get even more points.

I do. I don’t use scripture I do not understand. As far as provacatively quoting scripture, so did Christ. It is not a bad thing. On topic of reverence, yes, Jesus overturned the moneychangers and drove out those who were irreverant in His house. But his greatest and most scathing criticism was reserved for those who hung to the traditions of the Fathers and laid burdens on the faithful. The hypocrits who would tithe the mint and igmore the weighter matters of the law. I have no doubt in my mind who these people are today. They have shown themselves manifest here to the man as they come to lead the faithful of the Church astray.

 

[Benadam]

That sounds really goofy (and I in no way mean any disrespect). It’s just completely not in accord with Catholic teaching. Do you mean “Orthodox” ( as in non-Catholic) or “orthodox” (as in “right-believing”)?

Cheers

This is an orthodox catholic church in Africa. I think maybe he said Greek rthodox but kind of customized by the culture. My friend comes from the area that is also the home of the people who claim decent from the son of Solomon and the queen of Sheba.

 

[maurin]

Protestants, for their protesting and rebellion against the Catholic Church’s her authority. This is what marked them, not the liturgical reform.

that’s a new one. The deformation of the liturgy wasn’t what marked them. Huh. Really? You sure?

I do. I don’t use scripture I do not understand. As far as provacatively quoting scripture, so did Christ. It is not a bad thing. On topic of reverence, yes, Jesus overturned the moneychangers and drove out those who were irreverant in His house. But his greatest and most scathing criticism was reserved for those who hung to the traditions of the Fathers and laid burdens on the faithful. The hypocrits who would tithe the mint and igmore the weighter matters of the law. I have no doubt in my mind who these people are today. They have shown themselves manifest here to the man as they come to lead the faithful of the Church astray.

you’re a legend, pnewton. a pearl. a#1. top of the heap. king of the hill. Your liturgical, historical and scriptural expertise is overwhelming! I’m converted!

 

[Leopard]

This is an orthodox catholic church in Africa. I think maybe he said Greek rthodox but kind of customized by the culture. My friend comes from the area that is also the home of the people who claim decent from the son of Solomon and the queen of Sheba.

This may be the Ethiopian Orthodox or the Coptic Church, then.

 

[bpbasilphx]

This may be the Ethiopian Orthodox or the Coptic Church, then.

**Never call an Ethiopian a Copt. They are entirely separate churches.

There are, however, millions of black African faithful of the Greek Orthodox patriarchate of Antioch in Kenya and elsewhere, with black bishops.**

 

[Leopard]

This may be the Ethiopian Orthodox or the Coptic Church, then.

**Never call an Ethiopian a Copt. They are entirely separate churches.

There are, however, millions of black African faithful of the Greek Orthodox patriarchate of Antioch in Kenya and elsewhere, with black bishops.**

Yes, I know. That is why I said the Ethiopian Orthodox or the Coptic Church. Or it may have been a different Orthodox Church as you have pointed out.

 

[daughteroftruth]

:IwillnotrolleyesIwillnotrolleyes:

so what do you call those who deformed the Church in the 1600’s? Reformers? The reformers of the Church in that era were only those who were present at the Council of Trent.

You get points for “provacatively” quoting Scripture, though. If you’ve understood those Scriptures, you get even more points.

Provacative’s a great word. good for you!

The CCC refers to their churches as “Reformed.” God forbid we be less ambiguous and more accurate by saying “Protestant.”

 

[daughteroftruth]

The faithful at one time needed to be reminded that one received all of Christ in just the Host, so that was the mandated way. This is no longer needed.

And yet, of the Catholics that continue to attend Mass, and then of the Catholics that still *believe *in the True Presence, many of them think that they’re not receiving Christ fully unless they take Him under both species.

 

[pnewton]

And yet, of the Catholics that continue to attend Mass, and then of the Catholics that still *believe *in the True Presence, many of them think that they’re not receiving Christ fully unless they take Him under both species.

That’s the first I ever heard this. Have you had someone say this at your parish or did you read it somewhere?

 

[pnewton]

The CCC refers to their churches as “Reformed.” God forbid we be less ambiguous and more accurate by saying “Protestant.”

Are you calling Holy Mother Church Protestants? Wouldn’t that be an oxymoron?

 

[daughteroftruth]

Matthew 7

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

So we’re not supposed to say anything about the wrongdoing of anyone else, is that it? Maybe if Obama attends a Catholic Church to receive Holy Communion, the priest should give It to him? It’s not honest to take the Holy Scriptures out of context, judgments *have *to be made in life, and yes, sometimes judgments about other people. Christ says that eventually some have to be cast out, St. Paul says the same thing. Judgments.

1 Pet 5:14 Greet ye one another with a kiss of charity. Peace be with you all that are in Christ Jesus. Amen.

I highly doubt that St. Peter meant that we were to turn our backs to Christ moments after He entered the room in order to greet our neighbors (neighbors that we’ve spent the last 40-50 minutes with). I sort of think that context is important, but maybe I’m being presumptuous here?

 

[daughteroftruth]

Are you calling Holy Mother Church Protestants? Wouldn’t that be an oxymoron?

I was referring to the CCC calling Protestant churches “Reformed.”

 

[daughteroftruth]

That’s the first I ever heard this. Have you had someone say this at your parish or did you read it somewhere?

I’ve heard it from many, at my parish and elsewhere. I’ve also read about it here and there.

 

[pnewton]

So we’re not supposed to say anything about the wrongdoing of anyone else, is that it? Maybe if Obama attends a Catholic Church to receive Holy Communion, the priest should give It to him? It’s not honest to take the Holy Scriptures out of context, judgments *have *to be made in life, and yes, sometimes judgments about other people. Christ says that eventually some have to be cast out,

Yes, and he will do the casting. The context, if it helps is the teaching on the Sermon on the Mount. Let me also add that the context of my post had nothing to do with Obama receiving communion or any other “what if.”