How do you handle supporting in-laws?

[PhiloMed]

How do you manage in-law help/support with your spouse?

My in-laws live an hour and a half from us and are in so-so health. My BIL lived with them up until a month ago when he got married and his wife was able to get her visa to come here. As far as we know, BIL does not provide any financial support to his parents.

My husband gives my in-laws a substantial sum of money each month (somewhere between $700-$1000/month) to help support them. Their income (both working) just about covers their rent and without additional support they wouldn’t be able to afford much else besides the roof over their head.

I’ve been just keeping my mouth shut over this and let my husband do what he wants. Now that BIL has moved out, the IL’s dont really need a two bedroom apartment. Our ideal situation would be where they both retire and move somewhere closer to BIL or to us. This would reduce their expenses and DH could reduce how much is given to them monthly. We even looked into purchasing a condo or small house as an investment that they could live in.

Six months ago this was an acceptable situation and as of our conversation yesterday it is not. MIL says she does not want to retire. She and FIL are not getting along (an ongoing problem for at least 20 years according to my husband, but much worse in the past few years) and she doesn’t want to be trapped home with him all day. She is willing to move to a smaller place, but according to her this will be her only move. She refuses to move twice (once now to a smaller place and once down the road closer to one of us). FIL won’t drive at night, on weekends, or on certain highways and MIL refuses to take a taxi…leaving BIL or DH (mostly BIL) to make the drive for any grocery trip, dr visit, etc.

It is very difficult to communicate with them as to why this is all problematic, both for cultural and language reasons.

At the moment, it’s like we’re stuck in perpetual inertia with them living in an overpriced apartment that DH helps support indefinitely. Our own expenses have increased due to a giant jump in property taxes and baby #3 coming soon (increased childcare cost). We are tight as it is and the money that currently goes to the IL’s could really help take off some of the pressure. My mother has offered to give us some money to help with the childcare costs, but this seems crazy to have my mother subsidizing us so that DH can subsidize my IL’s.

Keep my mouth shut as I have been and avoid this very complicated situation? Come up with an alternative?

 

[Della]

Is there a trusted authority figure, such as the family priest, your ILs would listen to who could help resolve the situation? I think your family needs an outside influence so that no one will end up blaming one side or the other. A good real estate person might also be able to give you options for elderly living. I hope it all works out for the good of everyone.

 

[PhiloMed]

Is there a trusted authority figure, such as the family priest, your ILs would listen to who could help resolve the situation? I think your family needs an outside influence so that no one will end up blaming one side or the other. A good real estate person might also be able to give you options for elderly living. I hope it all works out for the good of everyone.

They aren’t Catholic. They are Coptic, but haven’t attended church in years though you’d never know it from the wall-to-wall Jesus art in their home. Even if we did find a Coptic priest to speak with them, I’m sure they would be so angry that we exposed their personal issues that it would make a much larger problem.

Good suggestion, though.

We have been looking at the over 50 type living arrangements if the IL’s ever do agree to move. They usually offer transportation to stores via shuttle and regular gatherings and outings that would make MIL possibly feel less isolated.

 

[pensmama87]

I don’t know about the cultural attitudes involved, so keep in that in mind - but I’d figure out with DH what level of financial assistance you are both comfortable with (unless he’s using his “pocket money” for it, or whatever money is allotted from your budget every month for him to spend on whatever he wants) and then informing his parents of that.

It is not fair for them to assume they can continue to rely on your assistance if they have other options available to them that don’t present a hardship to you.

They may really not like hearing that, though.

 

[PhiloMed]

I don’t know about the cultural attitudes involved, so keep in that in mind - but I’d figure out with DH what level of financial assistance you are both comfortable with (unless he’s using his “pocket money” for it, or whatever money is allotted from your budget every month for him to spend on whatever he wants) and then informing his parents of that.

It is not fair for them to assume they can continue to rely on your assistance if they have other options available to them that don’t present a hardship to you.

They may really not like hearing that, though.

Technically, he is using his money, which is why I’ve always kept quiet. However, now that things in our budget are a bit tighter, if little more of his money could be our money, I would feel more comfortable. Not necessarily for every day expenses, but just for a cushion. For example, our fridge has become intermittently incontinent and I’m hoping if I just ignore the problem it will go away. A little extra money laying around might prompt me to call the repair man. Now.

His parents gave up a relatively comfortable life so that DH and his brother could have more opportunities. With what has happened where they came from since that time, it might have also literally saved their lives. I know DH feels very indebted to them for what they gave up so that he may have the life he has. DH has all but abandoned any of their cultural and religious traditions which I know is confusing and maybe even hurtful to them. This is sort of his way of trying to make up for that.

For all the years we have been married, I’ve been very comfortable just keeping quiet and letting him handle his parents in any way he saw fit. It is only now that I’m seeing no end in sight, increasing expenses on our end, and his parents total unwillingness to compromise that I’m getting a little uncomfortable.

 

[pensmama87]

Technically, he is using his money, which is why I’ve always kept quiet. However, now that things in our budget are a bit tighter, if little more of his money could be our money, I would feel more comfortable. Not necessarily for every day expenses, but just for a cushion. For example, our fridge has become intermittently incontinent and I’m hoping if I just ignore the problem it will go away. A little extra money laying around might prompt me to call the repair man. Now.

I am not trying to be snarky, but I know this is going to come out that way because yay, the Internet: what do you mean “his money”?

I know some couples budget this way but I do not get it. I work a little, but my husband’s income and my income have always gone into one pot and then we divvy it up every month. From our “family money,” we each get some to spend however we wish. If we get individual checks for birthdays or Christmas they also aren’t subject to the family budget.

$700-1000 each month is a serious chunk of change - and could go a long way by itself to a new fridge.

(Though if you haven’t tried it yet, I highly recommend moving it out and cleaning it and the area around it.)

 

[Della]

Depending on local codes and the size of your property, you may want to look into building an in-law cottage on your land: aarp.org/home-garden/housing/info-10-2010/abcs_of_adus.html. You may want to think of moving to an area with less property tax but a bigger piece of land as one way to do that. Again, if you haven’t consulted a real estate agent, it might be a good idea to do that, to see what s/he may suggest.

 

[PhiloMed]

I am not trying to be snarky, but I know this is going to come out that way because yay, the Internet: what do you mean “his money”?

I know some couples budget this way but I do not get it. I work a little, but my husband’s income and my income have always gone into one pot and then we divvy it up every month. From our “family money,” we each get some to spend however we wish. If we get individual checks for birthdays or Christmas they also aren’t subject to the family budget.

$700-1000 each month is a serious chunk of change - and could go a long way by itself to a new fridge.

(Though if you haven’t tried it yet, I highly recommend moving it out and cleaning it and the area around it.)

Not snarky at all!

We divide funds in the opposite way. We have individual money and then contribute to a communal fund based on what our expenses are. That’s how we always did it since we got married, though the communal pot has grown since having kids, moving into a new house, etc.

And yes, what he gives them is a very serious chunk of change which is why I am now getting less and less comfortable with it.

Will see what I can do about cleaning around the fridge. It’s in a built-in unit in the wall with the doors matching the cabinets so I have no idea what would even go into replacing it.

 

[PhiloMed]

Depending on local codes and the size of your property, you may want to look into building an in-law cottage on your land: aarp.org/home-garden/housing/info-10-2010/abcs_of_adus.html. You may want to think of moving to an area with less property tax but a bigger piece of land as one way to do that. Again, if you haven’t consulted a real estate agent, it might be a good idea to do that, to see what s/he may suggest.

I’m not sure I want them that close.

We live on a 75 x 250 foot lot. Moving is not an option for us. We just purchased our dream home less than two years ago, put on an addition, and generally could never find another area we love this much.

We were willing to look at purchasing something for them to live in, but the problem is that MIL just does not want to leave her job to come to where we would buy something. The area of the state they are in is incredibly expensive- hence the sky high rent they pay and need to be subsidized. The money that DH uses to subsidize their rent could be used as a mortgage payment on a condo or small home in this area. At least then we would have an investment in it.

Personally, I think they are being unreasonable. I don’t want to come out and tell DH that, though.

 

[pensmama87]

Not snarky at all!

We divide funds in the opposite way. We have individual money and then contribute to a communal fund based on what our expenses are. That’s how we always did it since we got married, though the communal pot has grown since having kids, moving into a new house, etc.

And yes, what he gives them is a very serious chunk of change which is why I am now getting less and less comfortable with it.

Will see what I can do about cleaning around the fridge. It’s in a built-in unit in the wall with the doors matching the cabinets so I have no idea what would even go into replacing it.

Ah, I get ya.

Yeah, it may be time to discuss with hubby the need to enlarge the communal fund.

Your fridge may need more complicated TLC. I know units that aren’t built in get tons of dust clogs and that can cause a lot of problems. We hadn’t cleaned behind ours in a while and finally got around to it a couple of months ago - probably cleaned a six inch layer of dust off the back not to mention the walls behind it and the floor underneath. It runs much better now.

 

[CatholicRaven]

You have a problem, and it’s not what you think it is.

And just ignore that “no end in sight” feeling, because it’s just fear, and it will pass. You know that life is always changing. Things will be different again–maybe tomorrow, maybe in six months, maybe in three years. But things will change, and that means things will not be this way forever.

Here’s the thing: you’re seeing only one possible solution to the problem, because you’re falsely identifying the amount he spends on his parents as “the problem.” But that’s an illusion.

The PROBLEM is that you two now have higher living expenses but the same income, and you feel (understandably) insecure about your financial future. That is what you need to focus on.

I think I would sit down with my husband and say something like, “Honey, with the baby coming and the property tax increase, our expenses have really gone up lately, and I think we need to figure out a new budget together. I would also feel much more financially secure if we had a little ‘cushion’ of money, maybe in savings, for things like repairing or replacing the refrigerator once it conks out. What do you think?”

Then listen to him. He might or might not change what he’s giving to his parents, and/or he may come up with other solutions. If the two of you decide that “his” money will be a smaller amount, then it is still up to him to figure out how much of that to give his parents. That is not your money, so they are taking nothing from you. They are not the enemy. Remember, it’s not “me vs. them,” it’s “us vs. the problem.”

Unless he directly asks you for advice, don’t suggest changing his parents’ situation. Stay out of that (except for being supportive for your husband). Just tell him what the actual problem is (income vs. expenses), tell him what you need for your own sense of security (your “cushion”), and then ask him to help you figure out the “how.”

You’ve trusted him up to this point, and things have worked out. Now that things have changed just a little bit, you’re letting yourself be tempted to take control and tell him how to fight the dragon. Don’t. Please don’t let fear lead you. Have faith in your husband, and in God, to take care of you. But be sure to ASK for what you need!

Will say a prayer for you!

 

[Xantippe]

You have a problem, and it’s not what you think it is.

And just ignore that “no end in sight” feeling, because it’s just fear, and it will pass. You know that life is always changing. Things will be different again–maybe tomorrow, maybe in six months, maybe in three years. But things will change, and that means things will not be this way forever.

Here’s the thing: you’re seeing only one possible solution to the problem, because you’re falsely identifying the amount he spends on his parents as “the problem.” But that’s an illusion.

The PROBLEM is that you two now have higher living expenses but the same income, and you feel (understandably) insecure about your financial future. That is what you need to focus on.

I think I would sit down with my husband and say something like, “Honey, with the baby coming and the property tax increase, our expenses have really gone up lately, and I think we need to figure out a new budget together. I would also feel much more financially secure if we had a little ‘cushion’ of money, maybe in savings, for things like repairing or replacing the refrigerator once it conks out. What do you think?”

Then listen to him. He might or might not change what he’s giving to his parents, and/or he may come up with other solutions. If the two of you decide that “his” money will be a smaller amount, then it is still up to him to figure out how much of that to give his parents. That is not your money, so they are taking nothing from you. They are not the enemy. Remember, it’s not “me vs. them,” it’s “us vs. the problem.”

Unless he directly asks you for advice, don’t suggest changing his parents’ situation. Stay out of that (except for being supportive for your husband). Just tell him what the actual problem is (income vs. expenses), tell him what you need for your own sense of security (your “cushion”), and then ask him to help you figure out the “how.”

You’ve trusted him up to this point, and things have worked out. Now that things have changed just a little bit, you’re letting yourself be tempted to take control and tell him how to fight the dragon. Don’t. Please don’t let fear lead you. Have faith in your husband, and in God, to take care of you. But be sure to ASK for what you need!

Will say a prayer for you!

Yes.

Some more thoughts:

1. Two bedrooms is not enormous for a couple of empty nesters in most parts of the US. It only sounds crazy to the OP because her area is expensive.
2. I totally understand why the OP’s MIL does not want to leave her job and wind up cooped up in a smaller space with FIL. It’s also reasonable for MIL to only want to do one move.
3. Preserving MIL’s mobility and independence is important.
4. Would MIL feel more comfortable with a regular female driver? You could contract with somebody (or some company) for her to have a regular personal driver once a week. I bet one of those home-help companies could set that up. Your husband could send her an English itinerary on her phone for her to share with her driver. I totally get why getting in a stinky taxi with an unfamiliar male driver who doesn’t speak her language might freak her out. Some continuity would probably be helpful.
5. MIL probably also is looking for excuses to spend time with her sons.
6. MIL is not going to work forever.

On the other hand, as long as she’s working, she’ll be less needy. As soon as she quits her job, I would expect her to clamp limpet-like onto her sons.

1. Howsabout BIL and your husband chat about what they are each willing and able to do for mom and dad? Perhaps BIL can provide more time and you guys can continue to provide more or less what you are currently in cash.
2. It doesn’t sound like you need to do anything radical immediately. If you and your husband decide to give $700 a month rather than $1,000 a month, that’s $300 a month to contribute toward saving for the new fridge or repair. Within a very few months, you’ll have the money.
3. Two words: Dave Ramsey. OK–five words–“Dave Ramsey with your husband.”

Like other CAFers, I think that it’s time for you guys to have more closely integrated finances. You can’t afford to have such large quantities of “his” and “her” money anymore.

 

[Book_Worm]

Just a question to help understand the situation: Do you both receive the same amount of money from your combined income? Is your share as large as your DH’s?

 

[Xantippe]

At some point in the future, your husband may wish to give his parents the world’s-smallest-violin-playing-the-world’s-saddest song version of your financial situation.

Here is a draft:

“Mom and dad, I’m so glad we’ve been able to help you up to now, but things are starting to change. You know how hard PhiloMed works and how little she gets to see the kids? We’re expecting our third baby and I just don’t see how we can keep going on the same. It’s really tough for PhiloMed, she’s working so hard, and she’s pregnant and it’s really difficult to figure out how we can manage to make it work. We still want to help you, but it’s going to need to be a little less, and long term, we’re going to need to figure something out, because kids just keep getting more and more expensive, and our kids are at a relatively cheap age.”

For inspiration:

youtube.com/watch?v=XdofmoYcJNE

This may not work if they’ve seen your house and it’s really opulent.

 

[PhiloMed]

I would also feel much more financially secure if we had a little ‘cushion’ of money, maybe in savings, for things like repairing or replacing the refrigerator once it conks out. What do you think?"

Thanks! And yes! The problem is that we don’t have unlimited funds. If we were just rolling in money we could support them financially 100% and it wouldn’t impact us one bit. That would be a lovely scenario in my dream world.

He’s been very good at coming up with our household budget/expense list.

When we moved to the new house and I got my new job, he asked me for all the receipts on everything we spend on. I do the day to day bill paying, grocery shopping, kid shopping so I have a good handle on how much we spend on food, clothes, medical, electricity, etc. but have trouble seeing the big picture of what that adds up to on a per month or per year basis. He, essentially, took all of that and added it up.

Came up with our monthly expenses as what we need to spend/year divided into 12 months. Took each month and divided by 2. That divided by 2 is what we each need to put in every 2 weeks.

And it has worked! In fact, it might be working too well because I look at the joint account and see very little left over but see the “my money” fund in good shape. This then leads me to say "well, I’ll pay the tree removal guy from my money since I’ve got more than the common fund. Or DH will say “eh, I’ll just pay for the new big boy bed and window treatments myself since the common fund is low.”

Probably what we need to do is recalculate what we actually need to spend and add in more than that so the common fund grows and the personal funds stay, well, more personal.

Yes.

Some more thoughts:

1. Two bedrooms is not enormous for a couple of empty nesters in most parts of the US. It only sounds crazy to the OP because her area is expensive.

NYC metro area. We live in the expensive but comparatively less expensive area further south. We’ve got the beach, they’ve got the easy access to the city. Ironically, my husband commutes to the city. Ever heard of a city tax? The city taxes you just for working there.

1. I totally understand why the OP’s MIL does not want to leave her job and wind up cooped up in a smaller space with FIL. It’s also reasonable for MIL to only want to do one move.
2. Preserving MIL’s mobility and independence is important.

**Yeah, FIL is no piece of cake and I have a feeling he’s really difficult to be around when nobody else is around. MIL’s job allows her to work with people of the same cultural background and ends up being the only real social experience she has.

Among many of the wonderful things that happen as we age is that you are punished for working when you’re over the age of 65. You collect social security, but it is highly taxed. Ergo, the last two years they have owed money on their taxes that they don’t have because it went to paying bills. DH has paid their taxes the past two years. He does their taxes and gave them instructions on how to shelter more of their money. They did not take his advice and now owe again. He’s considering not paying for them this year just to force them into doing what he recommends so this doesn’t keep happening. **

1. Would MIL feel more comfortable with a regular female driver? You could contract with somebody (or some company) for her to have a regular personal driver once a week. I bet one of those home-help companies could set that up. Your husband could send her an English itinerary on her phone for her to share with her driver. I totally get why getting in a stinky taxi with an unfamiliar male driver who doesn’t speak her language might freak her out. Some continuity would probably be helpful.

**It’s possible, but if his mother doesn’t want to do something she finds a reason not to. For example, “Mom, we’re having a birthday party for your grandson next week. Brother will drive you down, ok?” Oh, no, because I’m thinking about going to Egypt in the spring and need to go shopping.

True story. I think the real story is that sometimes she doesn’t feel well and doesn’t want to say that so she comes up with any absurd answer. Much like my son’s answer to why he can’t go to bed right now is “Because one day I have to go to school and draw pictures.” **

1. MIL probably also is looking for excuses to spend time with her sons.
2. MIL is not going to work forever.

**Neither is FIL and I’m not sure what concerns me more. The continued working, living far from us and BIL or the day when they can’t work anymore due to an inevitable health crisis in two people who are heavy smokers, very overweight, eat high salt food and one has an aortic aneurysm. Tic toc tic toc. **

On the other hand, as long as she’s working, she’ll be less needy. As soon as she quits her job, I would expect her to clamp limpet-like onto her sons.

1. Howsabout BIL and your husband chat about what they are each willing and able to do for mom and dad? Perhaps BIL can provide more time and you guys can continue to provide more or less what you are currently in cash.

**Ugh, I wish DH and his brother were closer. They just come at life from two very different angles. DH sees his position as switching to the provider/caregiver to his parents. BIL sees himself as the son and still defers to his father for any sort of decision. Hence why he lived at home until getting married at the age of 41. It never occurred to him to contribute financially and probably still doesn’t. **

 

[PhiloMed]

Just a question to help understand the situation: Do you both receive the same amount of money from your combined income? Is your share as large as your DH’s?

DH and I make almost the same salary excluding bonuses and other company perks like stock.

Come to think of it, our take home is a little different because I carry our health insurance. We should calculate that into what we’re doing too.

 

[PhiloMed]

At some point in the future, your husband may wish to give his parents the world’s-smallest-violin-playing-the-world’s-saddest song version of your financial situation.

Here is a draft:

“Mom and dad, I’m so glad we’ve been able to help you up to now, but things are starting to change. You know how hard PhiloMed works and how little she gets to see the kids? We’re expecting our third baby and I just don’t see how we can keep going on the same. It’s really tough for PhiloMed, she’s working so hard, and she’s pregnant and it’s really difficult to figure out how we can manage to make it work. We still want to help you, but it’s going to need to be a little less, and long term, we’re going to need to figure something out, because kids just keep getting more and more expensive, and our kids are at a relatively cheap age.”

For inspiration:

youtube.com/watch?v=XdofmoYcJNE

This may not work if they’ve seen your house and it’s really opulent.

Yeah, they do need a bit of a come to Jesus moment regarding their financial situation. Whenever they finally do retire they will be on a very fixed income and there’s no telling what kind of medical expenses could come up.

See my PP when I mentioned that DH has covered their taxes recently. They’re just a little bit clueless and we probably enable this.

I hadn’t thought about them seeing our house and having a skewed perception of our finances. It’s a nice house and fairly average in size for the area we live in. Compared to what they are used to, though, it’s the Pharoah’s palace.

As DH says “Only in America could I have come with nothing and now have everything” Their perception of what “everything” is might be a little different than ours.

 

[Xantippe]

T

And it has worked! In fact, it might be working too well because I look at the joint account and see very little left over but see the “my money” fund in good shape. This then leads me to say "well, I’ll pay the tree removal guy from my money since I’ve got more than the common fund. Or DH will say “eh, I’ll just pay for the new big boy bed and window treatments myself since the common fund is low.”

Probably what we need to do is recalculate what we actually need to spend and add in more than that so the common fund grows and the personal funds stay, well, more personal.

Right.

It sounds like you need a “home maintenance/home improvement” sinking fund. We do $80 a month, but it should be more. In your case, I would suggest at least $150 a month and ideally $200 a month. Setting aside $100 a month toward an emergency fund might also be a good idea. (Home stuff might or might not fall into the emergency category–for instance your fridge would almost certainly count as an emergency.)

Also, Dave Ramsey would tell you that you need to do a fresh budget together every single month, so that the tree or the bed would be budgeted for.

NYC metro area–

I concur with DH’s idea of not “saving” them from the tax thing if they do it again. But make sure he warns them in advance.

Awful possibility–they may be funneling money to BIL. It happens!

Good luck!

 

[Xantippe]

I hadn’t thought about them seeing our house and having a skewed perception of our finances. It’s a nice house and fairly average in size for the area we live in. Compared to what they are used to, though, it’s the Pharoah’s palace.

Yeah.

I’m a big personal finance geek (in case you hadn’t noticed) and I notice that a lot of people who aren’t are pretty naive about the relationship between consumption and liquid assets. They think, “Bob must be rolling in it because he has a Mercedes SUV” whereas a more savvy observer would think, “Poor Bob, he must be hard up–he has a Mercedes SUV.”

I suspect your in-laws are in the first group.

 

[1990Domer]

If your in-laws are paying tax on their Social Security, they need a financial planner to tell them how to cut that down. I mean, they must be bringing in a decent income, unless all of it is going to rent. Ugh, we lived in the NY metro area. Tax on city wages is brutal…like in Philly. However, I think a family meeting with the sons and a financial planner is in order.