How do you help people like this

[ribozyme]

This is quite a challenge…

If you’re a young underclass woman, one of the first things you notice is that there are not many marriage-worthy men in your social milieu. A whole lot of them are unemployed or in prison or dead.

So even though you may want to get married, you figure your prospects are pretty dim. If you wait to marry before having children, you probably won’t have children.

You might as well have them now because, well, why wait? You’re not getting any younger. More to the point, your mother and other female relatives are not getting any younger. And since they’re the ones you’ll have to rely on for child care and support, it’s important to have your kids before they develop Type II diabetes and kidney failure and all the other health problems that tend to afflict black underclass folks more than white privileged types.

Will having kids hold back your career? Well, if you have an IQ of 80 and are looking for a reason to drop out of high school anyway, then no.

You’ve probably already figured out that your prospects of a good job are dim, and getting dimmer by the day, especially with immigrants flooding in by the millions to take the few jobs you’re qualified to do.

So for you, its not a choice of a ghastly life as a welfare mother or good life in the burbs. Fate and the immigration mavens have already decreed that you will get mostly crumbs from America’s bounteous economic table. The only choice you have is between a crummy life with kids or a crummy life without kids.

Your lack of career prospects just makes having kids look that much more attractive. Children are about the only thing you can produce that people will view as being truly valuable.

Besides, if you can’t count on a spouse for love and companionship, kids become doubly important because they’ll be the only family you’ve got.

So becoming a single mother makes quite a bit of sense to you. You realize it’s a scary prospect and a hard life, but what are your options?

isteve.blogspot.com/2005/05/elvis-levitt.html

I am sure such women exist, and it is not their fault they live in such a predictable. I do not know how free market bromides will help her because he does not have enough intellectual capacity for education so she can acquire skills.

I think an IQ of 80 (presumably this is based on a normed test with a standard deviation of 15 using the American population as a sample size) corresponds to about 10% of the population. Such a case by definition is not a rare one.

Being born with that impediment is slavery itself… being dependent on welfare is merely the symptom.

 

[Newbie2]

I think the gist of the quote, “The only choice you have is between a crummy life with kids or a crummy life without kids.” is hogwash.

If someone chooses to wallow in their own self-pity, then that statement might have some merit. Equating “poor” to “crummy” smacks to me of elitist bigotry. And purposely having a kid or kids as a single parent, whether rich or poor, smacks to me of selfishness. If someone is single and lonely and thinks having a child is the answer, perhaps they should consider getting a pet.

That’s not to say that single people adopting a child or children isn’t a noble thing to do, but that’s a far different matter with different motivations.

 

[oneloveichiai]

if ones outlook on life is that grim and dim, the next step i guess would be to find a loaded revolver and open wide. but as catholics, or any decent human with a sound mind, that shouldnt be considered an option.
how do i help someone like this?
i would help by supporting (economically if can, academically if i seem useful, and spiritually to remember to do good) that person to aim for a higher education. in this social system the higher the education degree the better the pay. in doing so, on resolves the financial issues to come when planing a life of family. the rest will fall into place God willingly and with some faith and prayer, things might turn out better than you thought they could. one could always adopt, so many homeless children.
but like someone mentioned before, start with a pet, maybe i would say a cactus and hope it dont rot too soon.
one love

 

[Newbie2]

but like someone mentioned before, start with a pet, maybe i would say a cactus and hope it dont rot too soon.

Or a worm. Very easy to care for.

 

[oneloveichiai]

now thats grim hahahah

 

[Oscarthecat]

I am sure such women exist, and it is not their fault they live in such a predictable. I do not know how free market bromides will help her because he does not have enough intellectual capacity for education so she can acquire skills.

I think an IQ of 80 (presumably this is based on a normed test with a standard deviation of 15 using the American population as a sample size) corresponds to about 10% of the population. Such a case by definition is not a rare one.

Being born with that impediment is slavery itself… being dependent on welfare is merely the symptom.

This is not a tough problem- but before I respond to that- I’d like to correct a couple of misperceptions expressed in your comments…

First,
It sounds as though you think that people with IQs in the low 80’s are mentally handicapped and that they lack the capacity for education or job training. A person with an IQ of 80 is considered to be on the lower end of average intelligence.
Here’s a quick breakdown of the classifications below 80.

Borderline mental retardation is between 70-79.
The high threshhold for mild mental retardation is around 70.
Moderate mental retardation begins at around 50.
Severe begins at about 35-40.
Profound mental retardation begins at about 25.

That means that the woman in the quote does not meet the minimum criteria to be considered even mildly mentally retarded.

With that in mind, I think you should reconsider your statement that she was born with an impediment that is the equivalent of slavery.

Second, I don’t think you understand the scoring system correctly. The IQ test does not yield absolute scores- in reality, the test operates on a bell curve, using 100 as 50th percentile. Therefore, about 50% of the population have IQs above 100, and 50% have IQ’s below 100.

So, you weren’t accurate you said that 10% of people have an IQ of 80- in reality, 10% of the entire population in the US have IQs of 80 or below, and 16% have IQ’s between 80-89.

To put some perspective on this again:
25% of the population have IQ’s below 90,
and 50% of the population have IQ’s below 100.

All that means is that 50% of people are smarter than the other 50%.

Not really all that shocking, now, is it?

OK, with that out of the way, to answer your question- the way we help people like this is to stop propagating the nonsense that formal education is a prerequisite for a happy or successful life.

I know this is heretical to most university professors, but this woman is more than capable of holding a job, even without (gasp!) some kind of formal education. In fact, it is even common for individuals with mild and moderate mental retardation to hold some sort of paying job.

The government requires parents to send these kids to school every year knowing that they are going to fail all of their classes no matter how hard they try.
This girl obviously doesn’t want to be in school- and apparently, the only “out” she’s ever been shown is to get pregnant. Why? Because the government can’t adjust itself to meet the needs of individuals, and special interest groups like teachers unions decimate politicians who even suggest diverting some resources into educational alternatives.

The answer to your question is to give this girl the opportunity to explore her talents so that she can overcome the perception that her life lacks meaning just because she’s not a good student.

Vocational programs are much more effective for kids who don’t succeed in academia because they give them an opportunity to learn skills that will directly benefit them, they get a chance to explore their abilities and realize that they have just as much potential to be happy as the kids who get straight A’s.

 

[puzzleannie]

just thinking of parents and godparents we met in our last baptismal prep class
–the young man paralyzed from the waist down after being hit by a drunk driver as he walked on campus, who lives on his own, works full time, is finishing his degree, drives, volunteers for youth activities on campus in his department, and is godparenting his niece.

–the young mothers whose husbands are deployed and taking the classes where they are stationed, as it becomes possible, who are juggling kids, home and work as they wait for the husbands and fathers to return (and the one whose husband will never come home and never see his newborn)

–the proud couple who own a successful business, who help teach the class, have several children and grandchildren, all faithful Catholics, good and productive citizens

all of them came to this country (legally), they or their parents migrated all over the country picking fruit and in one generation have realized the American dream, while still maintaining faith and values and traditions.

excuses, excuses, excuses still don’t add up to reasons for failure.

 

[ribozyme]

This is not a tough problem- but before I respond to that- I’d like to correct a couple of misperceptions expressed in your comments…

First,
It sounds as though you think that people with IQs in the low 80’s are mentally handicapped and that they lack the capacity for education or job training. A person with an IQ of 80 is considered to be on the lower end of average intelligence.
Here’s a quick breakdown of the classifications below 80.

Borderline mental retardation is between 70-79.
The high threshhold for mild mental retardation is around 70.
Moderate mental retardation begins at around 50.
Severe begins at about 35-40.
Profound mental retardation begins at about 25.

That means that the woman in the quote does not meet the minimum criteria to be considered even mildly mentally retarded.

With that in mind, I think you should reconsider your statement that she was born with an impediment that is the equivalent of slavery.

Second, I don’t think you understand the scoring system correctly. The IQ test does not yield absolute scores- in reality, the test operates on a bell curve, using 100 as 50th percentile. Therefore, about 50% of the population have IQs above 100, and 50% have IQ’s below 100.

So, you weren’t accurate you said that 10% of people have an IQ of 80- in reality, 10% of the entire population in the US have IQs of 80 or below, and 16% have IQ’s between 80-89.

To put some perspective on this again:
25% of the population have IQ’s below 90,
and 50% of the population have IQ’s below 100.

All that means is that 50% of people are smarter than the other 50%.

Not really all that shocking, now, is it?

OK, with that out of the way, to answer your question- the way we help people like this is to stop propagating the nonsense that formal education is a prerequisite for a happy or successful life.

I know this is heretical to most university professors, but this woman is more than capable of holding a job, even without (gasp!) some kind of formal education. In fact, it is even common for individuals with mild and moderate mental retardation to hold some sort of paying job.

The government requires parents to send these kids to school every year knowing that they are going to fail all of their classes no matter how hard they try.
This girl obviously doesn’t want to be in school- and apparently, the only “out” she’s ever been shown is to get pregnant. Why? Because the government can’t adjust itself to meet the needs of individuals, and special interest groups like teachers unions decimate politicians who even suggest diverting some resources into educational alternatives.

The answer to your question is to give this girl the opportunity to explore her talents so that she can overcome the perception that her life lacks meaning just because she’s not a good student.
.

She doesn’t have ANY talents. And I never argued that she was mentally retarded; all I said was that she was incapable of holding a good job.

I know what a normal distribution is; and if (absolute) intelligence increased, the tests would merely be renormed. This happened several times because of the “Flynn effect.”

And if you do not think the life of the poor are “crummy;” why don’t you trade places with them?

 

[Tonks40]

There you go again putting parameters on situations where there shouldn’t be one! Shows me you have lack of hope for those not as “intelligent” as you…such a defeatist-type attitude isn’t good for your soul!

BTW - there are many non-profit organizations out there operating in the free-enterprise system that provide services for those who are disadvantaged. My son’s girlfriend and mother of his daughter is one of them - and she doesn’t espouse the kind of grim outlook that you seem to imply people in her situation should have. Because of a local non-profit program, she’ll be graduating next year with her high school diploma - and she’s very excited about that!

 

[Oscarthecat]

She doesn’t have ANY talents. And I never argued that she was mentally retarded; all I said was that she was incapable of holding a good job.

You aren’t qualified to assess whether she is completely devoid of talent. People in this state of mind may need help finding their talents, but they certainly don’t need one more elitist in their life telling them they have nothing of value to offer society.

I know what a normal distribution is; and if (absolute) intelligence increased, the tests would merely be renormed. This happened several times because of the “Flynn effect.”

That’s actually kind of disappointing, because if that’s true then all it proves is that you knowingly denigrated 16% of the population based soley on their intellectual capacity. You sounded less elitist when I assumed you didn’t know any better.

And if you do not think the life of the poor are “crummy;” why don’t you trade places with them?

I said that their lives were not without hope and potential.
Many people have “crummy” lives- some choose to try to improve their lives, some don’t.

As far as your “trading places” comment goes- you should do some research on why many lottery winners end up in financial ruin.

 

[bilop]

She doesn’t have ANY talents. And I never argued that she was mentally retarded; all I said was that she was incapable of holding a good job.

I know what a normal distribution is; and if (absolute) intelligence increased, the tests would merely be renormed. This happened several times because of the “Flynn effect.”

And if you do not think the life of the poor are “crummy;” why don’t you trade places with them?

She may have plenty of talent. She may be very meticulous and make a good bookeeper. She may be very personable, and be good in a sales position. There are plenty of jobs a person with an IQ of 80 can do. If she gets vocational training, there is no reason that she can’t make a decent living, say $20-30,000. If she marries someone with similar capabilities, they could have a family income in the $50,000 range, and a comfortable middle or lower middle class life.

It is the decision not to get a career skill, and not to marry before having children that causes the “crummy” life, of which you speak.

God Bless

 

[Shannon9791]

The first thing you have to do is get this individual past the victim mentality. If she’s thinking “Woe is me, I have nothing to do except make babies” she’s already lost the battle. Why wouldn’t she at least try something to better herself? Why count herself out before the round even starts?

There are many people who think like this though. I used to work at a Head Start preschool and there were SEVERAL mothers there who openly spoke about trying to get pregnant to increase the size of their monthly welfare checks. Selfish? Most definitely, because they don’t care about the children, only themselves. I can’t tell you the number of children I personally witnessed who will forever be a part of the “system” because their parent (most…probably about 80% were from single parent families) didn’t teach them anything other than that.

If this particular individual wanted more for herself, instead of just giving up like this story wants us to believe that’s all there is, she would take the initiative to do more. There are too many programs to count for people who wish to better themselves.

I am all for people working to make something of themselves. I am not for anyone taking this defeated attitude and riding through life with no where to go but the grave.

 

[Oscarthecat]

I think that it is worth pointing out that the author of the excerpt you quoted is writing from the “perspective” of a fictional woman in order to try to get a better understanding of the experience of people in this situation.

So, in theory, there may be someone out there who thinks like the woman imagined by the author- but the woman “quoted” by the author is completely fictional.

Secondly, and more importantly, it appears that the author’s primary point is that, especially in these communities, abortion is a mark of a woman’s determination to become successful.

From the source:
“Seen from this perspective, poor women who have abortions are likely to be the strivers and achievers. They’re the ones who see some prospect of improving their lives, and realize it may hold them back if they have five kids by four fathers. They’re the ones who are trying, in their own way, to make good.”

isteve.blogspot.com/2005/05/elvis-levitt.html