How do you interpret this scripture?

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IBut what is the motivation and purpose for those kinds of good works God determined for the chosen to walk in? Are those kinds of good works the key to receiving the right garment?
Jesus never speaks of motive… when he tells the man in St. Mark 10:17 to obey the commandments and to give up everything to follow Jesus… There is another parable in the Bible that talks of 2 sons: one said he would do what his father wanted, then went off and did something else. The other said he woiuld not do it, but yet, went out and did it anyway… and Jesus asks: Which one did the will of the father?? Initial Intentions don’t matter… it is what one DOES that matters…
 
Does this help?..
  1. What is that wedding garment then? This is the wedding garment: Now the end of the commandment, says the Apostle, is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned. This is the wedding garment. Not charity of any kind whatever; for very often they who are partakers together of an evil conscience seem to love one another. They who commit robberies together, who love the hurtful arts of sorceries, and the stage together, who join together in the shout of the chariot race, or the wild beast fight; these very often love one another; but in these there is no charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned. The wedding garment is such charity as this. Though I speak with the tongues of men and of Angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, and a tinkling cymbal. Tongues have come in alone, and it is said to them, How came ye in hither not having a wedding garment? Though, said he, I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. See, these are the miracles of men who very often have not the wedding garment. Though, he says, I have all these, and have not Christ, I am nothing. Is then the gift of prophecy nothing? is then the knowledge of mysteries nothing? It is not that these are nothing; but I, if I have them, and have not charity, am nothing. How many good things profit nothing without this one good thing! If then I have not charity, though I bestow alms freely upon the poor, though I have come to the confession of Christ’s Name even unto blood and fire, these things may be done even through the love of glory, and so are vain. Because then they may be done even from the love of glory, and so be vain, and not through the rich charity of a godly affection, he names them all also in express terms, and you give ear to them; though I distribute all my goods for the use of the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profits me nothing. This then is the wedding garment. Question yourselves; if you have it, you may be without fear in the Feast of the Lord. In one and the same man there exist two things, charity and desire. Let charity be born in you, if it be yet unborn, and if it be born, be it nourished, fostered, increased. But as to that desire, though in this life it cannot be utterly extinguished; for if we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us; but in so far as desire is in us, so far we are not without sin: let charity increase, desire decrease; that the one, that is, charity, may one day be perfected, and desire be consumed. Put on the wedding garment: you I address, who as yet have it not. You are already within, already do ye approach to the Feast, and still have ye not yet the garment to do honour to the Bridegroom; You are yet seeking your own things, not the things which are Jesus Christ’s. For the wedding garment is taken in honour of the union, the union, that is, of the Bridegroom to the Bride. You know the Bridegroom; it is Christ. You know the Bride; it is the Church. Pay honour to the Bride, pay honour to the Bridegroom. If you pay due honour to them both, you will be their children. Therefore in this make progress. Love the Lord, and so learn to love yourselves; that when by loving the Lord you shall have loved yourselves, you may securely love your neighbour as yourselves. For when I find a man that does not love himself, how shall I commit his neighbour whom he should love as himself to him? And who is there, you will say, who does not love himself? Who is there? See, He that loves iniquity hates his own soul. Does he love himself, who loves his body, and hates his soul to his own hurt, to the hurt of both his body and soul? And who loves his own soul? He that loves God with all his heart and with all his mind. To such an one I would at once entrust his neighbour. Love your neighbour as yourselves.
 
i notice Reformed gave no response to my point that motive is not mentioned by Christ in the Bible… as a determining factor in good works…

In other words, as Nike says:

Just do it…

🙂
 
wow… so it would seem that st. Gregory believed you had to be a member of the Church to be saved? What era did he live in?

(yes, i know the Church teaches that those outside the Church who believe in Christ but aren’t Catholic due to invincible ignorance are still part of the Church…

Had to say that so wouldn’t get pounced on by someone out there…:rolleyes: )
Sorry for the delayed response…St. Gregory the Great lived from about 540 to the year 604 and was pope from 590 to 604 under the title Gregory I
 
i notice Reformed gave no response to my point that motive is not mentioned by Christ in the Bible… as a determining factor in good works…

In other words, as Nike says:

Just do it…

🙂
The right motive is everything. If good works is done with the wrong motive, then our righteous works are like filthy rags to God.

Isaiah 64:6:
Code:
     For all of us have become like one who is unclean,
     And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment;
     And all of us wither like a leaf,
     And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.
 
In St. Matthew 22:1-14 Jesus says that the kingdom of Heaven may be likened to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son. He dispatched his servants to summon the invited guests to the feast but they refused to come… He kept inviting - and people kept refusing…

"Some ignored the invitation and went away, one to his farm, another to his buisness. The rest laid hold of his servants, mistreated them, and killed them. The king was eneraged and sent his troops, destroyed those murderers, and burned their city. Then the king said to his servants, “The feast is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy to come. Go out, therefore, into the main roads and invite to the feast whomever you find.’ The servants went out into the streets and gathered all they found, bad and good alike, and the hall was filled with guests. But when the king came in to meet the guests he saw a man there not dressed in a wedding garment. He said to him, “My firend, how is it that you came in here without a wedding garment?” But he was reduced to silence. Then the king said to his attendants, ‘bind his hands and feet, and cast him into the darkness outside, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.’ Many are invited, but few are chosen.”

What, exactly, is the wedding garment??? :confused:
I would say Sanctifying Grace.
 
Wow, you have just asked a MILLION dollar question! I am no theologian, but I will give you some sources I used to try to read about it and also the “bit” I “think” I understand.
Grace
"Sanctifying Grace is the Grace we receive through Baptism.
“St. Paul in his letter to the Romans asks “…are you unaware that we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were indeed buried with him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live in newness of life (Rom 6:3-4).” “This is why baptism is the vital first step in the life of a Christian. Also see (John 3:5).” Thus the cleansing waters of baptism wash away the inequities of sin and through the grace of God begin a sustaining relationship in Christ through the work of the Holy Spirit. From what I read, this means Sanctifying Grace, also called Habitual Grace, is a gift, once given through Baptism by God and is never taken away.” This does not mean we believe that once we are given this gift, all we need do to be saved is believe.

The Catholic Church does not teach once saved always saved.
Pretty sticky and a source of argument since Luther and maybe before. That little propostion I know nothing about.
http://www.tanbooks.com/doct/divine_grace.htm"What is Sanctifying Grace? It is none other than the life of God Himself imparted to the soul, whereby man is raised, in a true sense, to the divine level and by which man becomes a friend and a child of God, an heir to Heaven, and is thereby and thereafter pleasing in His sight—so long as man remains in the state of Sanctifying Grace… And how can we lose it? We lose it by committing mortal sins, which are those sins 1) of a grievous nature (in themselves, or which we think are grievous), 2) which we fully know to be mortally sinful, and yet 3) which we commit anyway, with the full consent of our will.
We also believe in what is called Actual Grace:Although Sanctifying Grace instills us with life, there are moments in our lives in which we are especially moved by God’s love. These graces help us to sustain our relationship with Christ and are called actual graces, because they reflect the intervention of God in our lives. Actual grace is what moves a person’s heart to conversion and penitence and sustains the soul in the process of justification and sanctification.
The seven sacraments of the Church are also a work of actual grace to nourish the Body of Christ and its members. sustaining life of grace in the Eucharist to his apostles, "I am the living bread that came down from heaven; Whoever eats this bread will live forever…(John 6:51)."Now I don’t know if by Justifying Grace you mean justification in which one is in a state of constant grace as long as one believes in Christ and His teachings, but I am going on the assumption that is what you mean.
The following is the definition of Catholic Justification:JUSTIFICATION, THEOLOGY OFThe process of a sinner becoming justified or made right with God.
As defined by the Council of Trent, “Justification is the change from the condition in which a person is born as a child of the first Adam into a state of grace and adoption among the children of God through the Second Adam, Jesus Christ our Savior” (Denzinger 1524). On the negative side, justification is a true removal of sin, and not merely having one’s sins ignored or no longer held against the sinner by God. On the positive side it is the supernatural sanctification and renewal of a person who thus becomes holy and pleasing to God and an heir of heaven. The Catholic Church identifies five elements of justification, which collectively define its full meaning. The primary purpose of justification is the honor of God and of Christ; its secondary purpose is the eternal life of mankind. The main efficient cause or agent is the mercy of God; the main instrumental cause is the sacrament of baptism, which is called the “sacrament of faith” to spell out the necessity of faith for salvation. And that which constitutes justification or its essence is the justice of God, “not by which He is just Himself, but by which He makes us just,” namely sanctifying grace. Depending on the sins from which a person is to be delivered, there are different kinds of justification. An infant is justified by baptism and the faith of the one who requests or confers the sacrament. Adults are justified for the first time either by personal faith, sorrow for sin and baptism, or by the perfect love of God, which is at least an implicit baptism of desire. Adults who have sinned gravely after being justified can receive justification by sacramental absolution or perfect contrition for their sins. (Etym. Latin justus, just + facere, to make, do: justificatio.)
Another of the differences between Catholic and Protestant belief in grace is that Catholics believe in an intermediary between themselves and Christ/God, the Priest, especially in the Sacrament of Reconciliation, or Confession. Another would probably be the necessity Catholics see for the Seven Sacraments, Baptism, Act of Reconciliation, Holy Eucharist, Confirmation, Blessing of the sick, or as it was known in my day, Extreme Unction (for the dying) Holy Orders, Matrimony. Hope this helps.🙂
 
The right motive is everything. If good works is done with the wrong motive, then our righteous works are like filthy rags to God.

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our works are as filthy rags anyway…

and motive is not mentioned in the Bible…

Read St. Matthew 25:31-46 … and St. Mark 10;17… (etc)…

i think its Jeremiah where it says that the human heart is “deceitful above all things and despearatley wicked”…

so much for motive…
 
our works are as filthy rags anyway…

and motive is not mentioned in the Bible…

Read St. Matthew 25:31-46 … and St. Mark 10;17… (etc)…

i think its Jeremiah where it says that the human heart is “deceitful above all things and despearatley wicked”…

so much for motive…
I don’t seem to understand what you are saying. Are you saying our motive matters or does not?
 
I don’t seem to understand what you are saying. Are you saying our motive matters or does not?
Whatever you do to the least of My brethren, you do unto me…

Jesus never said "Whatever motive you have is how you will be judged…

Comprende???
 
In St. Matthew 22:1-14 Jesus says that the kingdom of Heaven may be likened to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son. He dispatched his servants to summon the invited guests to the feast but they refused to come… He kept inviting - and people kept refusing…

"Some ignored the invitation and went away, one to his farm, another to his buisness. The rest laid hold of his servants, mistreated them, and killed them. The king was eneraged and sent his troops, destroyed those murderers, and burned their city. Then the king said to his servants, “The feast is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy to come. Go out, therefore, into the main roads and invite to the feast whomever you find.’ The servants went out into the streets and gathered all they found, bad and good alike, and the hall was filled with guests. But when the king came in to meet the guests he saw a man there not dressed in a wedding garment. He said to him, “My firend, how is it that you came in here without a wedding garment?” But he was reduced to silence. Then the king said to his attendants, ‘bind his hands and feet, and cast him into the darkness outside, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.’ Many are invited, but few are chosen.”

What, exactly, is the wedding garment??? :confused:
Sanctifying grace. Holiness. A life lived in love - patient, kind.
 
I don’t seem to understand what you are saying. Are you saying our motive matters or does not?
I’m sure motive isn’t in the Bible, but I would think motive would mean a lot. If one does a kind act in order to make oneself appear holly or good to others, I would imagine that would mean less than an act done having someone else’s care in mind, or doing it only for the love of God.

Distracted, you didn’t make too much sense. Also if Jeremiah says man is full of deceit and wickedness, the folks he was talking about hadn’t been baptized yet.👍
 
I’m sure motive isn’t in the Bible, but I would think motive would mean a lot. If one does a kind act in order to make oneself appear holly or good to others, I would imagine that would mean less than an act done having someone else’s care in mind, or doing it only for the love of God.

Distracted, you didn’t make too much sense. Also if Jeremiah says man is full of deceit and wickedness, the folks he was talking about hadn’t been baptized yet.👍
If a person feeds the hungry, visits prisoners, etc… he is doing the will of God… regardless of motive… True someone who does the same thing with a pure motive (love of neighbor) will get a greater reward in Heaven… but the one with less than perfect motive is doing the will of God… & i really doubt many people do such good deeds just because they want to look good to others…

You shouldn’t be interpreting scripture as though your interpretation is infallible… that scriopture in Jeremiah was describing human nature… that applies to all humans…

and the fact that you are so negative toward me rather proves the point…
 
I’m sure motive isn’t in the Bible, but I would think motive would mean a lot. If one does a kind act in order to make oneself appear holly or good to others, I would imagine that would mean less than an act done having someone else’s care in mind, or doing it only for the love of God.

Distracted, you didn’t make too much sense. Also if Jeremiah says man is full of deceit and wickedness, the folks he was talking about hadn’t been baptized yet.👍
I think these verses and others will support the necessity of correct motives. A sinner needs a new heart before his works are pleasing to God. A person in the flesh cannot please God because his motive is always tainted by sin.

25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.

27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people’s bones and all uncleanness. 28 So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

Mat 23
 
. A person in the flesh cannot please God because his motive is always tainted by sin.

25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.
You are, as usual, misinterpreting what i said. I never said that one does not need to be “clean on the inside”. I, of all people, would be the last to say something like THAT…

I am saying that if you are a Christian and you don’t feel like helping out the poor and that kind of thing… but you do it anywya… even while all the time wishing you were somwhere else… (been there:( )… you are, nonetheless, serving God… and doing what the bible says to do… It’s about obedience… obeying when you don’t feel like it…
 
You are, as usual, misinterpreting what i said. I never said that one does not need to be “clean on the inside”. I, of all people, would be the last to say something like THAT…

I am saying that if you are a Christian and you don’t feel like helping out the poor and that kind of thing… but you do it anywya… even while all the time wishing you were somwhere else… (been there:( )… you are, nonetheless, serving God… and doing what the bible says to do… It’s about obedience… obeying when you don’t feel like it…
I understood that your originial posting stated that the Bible does not speak about our motives. I’m saying our motive is everything.
Jesus never speaks of motive… when he tells the man in St. Mark 10:17 to obey the commandments and to give up everything to follow Jesus… There is another parable in the Bible that talks of 2 sons: one said he would do what his father wanted, then went off and did something else. The other said he woiuld not do it, but yet, went out and did it anyway… and Jesus asks: Which one did the will of the father?? Initial Intentions don’t matter… it is what one DOES that matters…
 
But how much good works, and what kind of good works is necessary to enter the kingdom of God?
How much? Good question…but I would think that a real Christian wouldn’t be concerned with a “quota” to fulfill…but would just live the way Christ admonished us to do so, and that admonishment was …???

Here is the answer:

The Divine command is set forth in the most stringent terms by Christ, and the failure to comply with it is visited with the supreme penalty of eternal damnation (Matthew 25:41): “Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, in everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. I was a stranger, and you took me not in; naked, and you covered me not; sick and in prison, and you did not visit me”, etc.

**The traditional enumeration of the corporal works of mercy is as follows:
Code:
* To feed the hungry;
* To give drink to the thirsty;
* To clothe the naked;
* To harbour the harbourless;
* To visit the sick;
* To ransom the captive;
* To bury the dead.
The spiritual works of mercy are:
Code:
* To instruct the ignorant;
* To counsel the doubtful;
* To admonish sinners;
* To bear wrongs patiently;
* To forgive offences willingly;
* To comfort the afflicted;
* To pray for the living and the dead. **
Now, I have to ask…What could possibly be wrong or objectionable about doing any one of those things? How could any decent human being…much less a Christian object to doing any of those things? Seems little enough to ask or expect…

From the Catechism:

**2447 The works of mercy are charitable actions by which we come to the aid of our neighbor in his spiritual and bodily necessities. Instructing, advising, consoling, comforting are spiritual works of mercy, as are forgiving and bearing wrongs patiently. The corporal works of mercy consist especially in feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and imprisoned, and burying the dead. Among all these, giving alms to the poor is one of the chief witnesses to fraternal charity: it is also a work of justice pleasing to God:
Code:
He who has two coats, let him share with him who has none and he who has food must do likewise. But give for alms those things which are within; and behold, everything is clean for you. If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit?
**

Now…it would seem…wouldn’t it (?) that any one who claims to believe in the Bible…that it is amply clear that Christ Himself deemed it necessary…for Salvation…in addition to Him. I can’t see any other way to see it. Its an all or none kind of thing. Faith without works…DEAD!
 
I understood that your originial posting stated that the Bible does not speak about our motives. I’m saying our motive is everything.
I’m going to go out on a limb here, and agree with you. I personally feel that if one performs a good work or works…and solely does it because it is “considered required”, while they may believe they are doing what God wants…I don’t believe it is done in the spirit of love and charity with a glad heart. One who is forced to do something has no desire to do the act, whereas one who does so gladly and of their own volition and a genuine desire to help others…without keeping a scorecard…does so out of love for his fellow man, and out of love for God…and in doing so…is showing his love and reverence for God in deed and action. The other person…is doing it as an undesired homework assignment.

Frankly…I think God will look at the two differently.
 
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