How do you know God is calling you to be a priest?

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Why, a MDiv. is adequate but not a S.T.B.(they both require about 3 years to complete)?

Most M.Div,s I know of require 4 years to complete.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

In particular, Brother, do you know what it would be like for a Carmelite(non-Calced) in Rome?

I believe there is an international student house in Rome that many of the provinces use but neither of the US provinces have been sending our men there for some time now so I could not tell you what it would be like.

For me it would be hard as you would need to learn Italian to study.

 

[Young_Thinker]

I believe there is an international student house in Rome that many of the provinces use but neither of the US provinces have been sending our men there for some time now so I could not tell you what it would be like.

For me it would be hard as you would need to learn Italian to study.

Thank you(I am sorry; I meant non-Discalced). Personally, I wanted to learn to speak Italian anyway(opera!).

 

[Young_Thinker]

Most M.Div,s I know of require 4 years to complete.

All right.

 

[Young_Thinker]

An S.T.L. is not a degree like a Ph.D., I believe that the M.Div. is more of an equivalent to the S.T.L. while something like a D.Min. would be to a S.T.D.

But maybe I am confused on the S.T.B. Is that one of the degrees they will ordain a man with.

I know you need an S.T.L. to enter into a S.T.D program.

The White Friars, who we Carmelites are, do not send students to Rome from the States currently.

I see. If one wants to become a Carmelite priest, could one obtain permission to go to Rome for a few years? From what I presently know, there are not that many Carmelite communities in the U.S(or in Great Britain or Canada, for that matter), and Rome is the headquarters of the Calced order. Anyway, if an M.A. in theology(from a Catholic university) or M.T.S. with a canon law degree are unsatisfactory for ordination , I guess that I will just have to spend an extra year obtaining a second bachelor’s degree in theology(I like science and really do not want to change majors or transfer right now) and apply to M.Div. or M.P.Th.(I know that St. Paul in Ottawa, which is pontifical, offers that degree) programs.

 

[Young_Thinker]

Anyway, if an M.A. in theology(from a Catholic university) or M.T.S. with a canon law degree are unsatisfactory for ordination , I guess that I will just have to spend an extra year obtaining a second bachelor’s degree in theology(I like science and really do not want to change majors or transfer right now) and apply to M.Div. or M.P.Th.(I know that St. Paul in Ottawa, which is pontifical, offers that degree) programs.

Well, I know that some seminaries have a “pre-theology” program for non-theo. majors who wish to pursue a M.Div. Also, I just found out that Boston College accepts the M.Div. as a prerequisite for a S.T.L. Do you know if that is typical for pontifical schools(even among those in Rome)? I know that C.U.A. is the only one in the U.S. with a canon law program, but it seems that nearly all of those with a papal charter offer the S.T.L. I hope that I am not asking too many questions.

 

[Young_Thinker]

Oh my, if I get a MDiv. and then S.T.L. or J.C.L. and, finally, a British Ph.D., I am probably going to feel old by the time that I am finished(I would be 31-32 years old).

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I see. If one wants to become a Carmelite priest, could one obtain permission to go to Rome for a few years? From what I presently know, there are not that many Carmelite communities in the U.S(or in Great Britain or Canada, for that matter),

There are two provinces of the Order of Carmelites in the US. I doubt you would get permission to study in Rome as we do our formation jointly.

I do not know how you define “not that many Carmelite communities in the U.S.” so I can not really respond to that.

and Rome is the headquarters of the Calced order.

Our General Curia is in Rome but it is the General Curia of the Order of Carmelites, we do not call ourselves “calced” as that is defining us by a reform that left the Order proper and is no the right thing to do.

Anyway, if an M.A. in theology(from a Catholic university) or M.T.S. with a canon law degree are unsatisfactory for ordination,

These are unsatisfactory for ordination as they do not contain all the practicum other classes required.

I guess that I will just have to spend an extra year obtaining a second bachelor’s degree in theology(I like science and really do not want to change majors or transfer right now) and apply to M.Div. or M.P.Th.(I know that St. Paul in Ottawa, which is pontifical, offers that degree) programs.

Most likely the Order would have you complete the standard formation program which is the M.Div. and then after your ordination assign you somewhere for a year. During that year you would enter into dialogue with the prior provincial to talk about future plans.

 

[JesuitLoyola]

Youngthinker, are you sure you’re considering the priesthood for the right reasons; it seems as if you are just looking to become a priest to gain high standing within the church and the academic fields. You do realize that most religious orders (most not all) or diocese across the United States don’t just dispense their priests to do what they please in terms of studies. Most of the time, you get your M.Div while at seminary, you’re ordained, and then you fulfill your function as a priest in whatever charism the order specifies. You don’t just sign up and then go where you want to study what you want-that’s where obedience comes into the picture. If you’re so interested in academics and science; stick with it you will have much more autonomy as an academic than a priest. Either that or find an order that focuses on academics.The priesthood is a sacrifice; not just an open ended ticket to whatever liturgical studies you are interested in. There is a real need for priests in order to meet the sacramental needs of the faithful; not for priests looking to fulfill some ambition they have for a degree and title.

 

[Young_Thinker]

Youngthinker, are you sure you’re considering the priesthood for the right reasons; it seems as if you are just looking to become a priest to gain high standing within the church and the academic fields. You do realize that most religious orders (most not all) or diocese across the United States don’t just dispense their priests to do what they please in terms of studies. Most of the time, you get your M.Div while at seminary, you’re ordained, and then you fulfill your function as a priest in whatever charism the order specifies. You don’t just sign up and then go where you want to study what you want-that’s where obedience comes into the picture. If you’re so interested in academics and science; stick with it you will have much more autonomy as an academic than a priest. Either that or find an order that focuses on academics.The priesthood is a sacrifice; not just an open ended ticket to whatever liturgical studies you are interested in. There is a real need for priests in order to meet the sacramental needs of the faithful; not for priests looking to fulfill some ambition they have for a degree and title.

Thank you. I believe that I am considering the priesthood for the right reasons, which are many. Having also thought about becoming a medical doctor(that is probably from where my odd obsession with having a doctorate comes), I do not want to be a life-long academic(now that would be rather limiting); I just wish to teach for a few years and then I would certainly would not mind being the priest of a parish or perhaps even a military chaplain. Also, since I desire to be a religious priest, I am obviously willing to make some personal sacrifices.

 

[Young_Thinker]

There are two provinces of the Order of Carmelites in the US. I doubt you would get permission to study in Rome as we do our formation jointly.

I do not know how you define “not that many Carmelite communities in the U.S.” so I can not really respond to that.

Our General Curia is in Rome but it is the General Curia of the Order of Carmelites, we do not call ourselves “calced” as that is defining us by a reform that left the Order proper and is no the right thing to do.

These are unsatisfactory for ordination as they do not contain all the practicum other classes required.

Most likely the Order would have you complete the standard formation program which is the M.Div. and then after your ordination assign you somewhere for a year. During that year you would enter into dialogue with the prior provincial to talk about future plans.

Thank you. As for the no. of Carmelite communities in the U.S., I have heard of only a handful of monasteries(forgive me if I sounded ignorant), and I was merely using the term “calced” to distinguish the original Carmelites from the Theresian order(I do love Sainte The’r`ese de Lisieux, though).

 

[Young_Thinker]

Oh my, if I get a MDiv. and then S.T.L. or J.C.L. and, finally, a British Ph.D., I am probably going to feel old by the time that I am finished(I would be 31-32 years old).

or 33! If I want a pontifical degree that badly, I have read that some seminaries grant an M.Div. and S.T.B. simultaneously, just to impart an idea.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Thank you. As for the no. of Carmelite communities in the U.S., I have heard of only a handful of monasteries

Carmelites live in priories not monasteries. There are many, we staff many parishes in NJ, FL, CA, AZ, IL, KA, just to name a few states off the top of my head.

We run 3 High Schools and share administration with sisters in two other High Schools.

We have three retreat houses and a shrine.

We also have others who work in other areas out side of these minstries.

(forgive me if I sounded ignorant), and I was merely using the term “calced” to distinguish the original Carmelites from the Theresian order(I do love Sainte The’r`ese de Lisieux, though).

And the proper term for us is the Order of Carmelites. They are the Discalced. They are defined by the reform, not us.

 

[Young_Thinker]

Carmelites live in priories not monasteries. There are many, we staff many parishes in NJ, FL, CA, AZ, IL, KA, just to name a few states off the top of my head.

We run 3 High Schools and share administration with sisters in two other High Schools.

We have three retreat houses and a shrine.

We also have others who work in other areas out side of these minstries.

And the proper term for us is the Order of Carmelites. They are the Discalced. They are defined by the reform, not us.

I see; thank you, Brother David.

 

[JesuitLoyola]

Thank you. I believe that I am considering the priesthood for the right reasons, which are many. Having also thought about becoming a medical doctor(that is probably from where my odd obsession with having a doctorate comes), I do not want to be a life-long academic(now that would be rather limiting); I just wish to teach for a few years and then I would certainly would not mind being the priest of a parish or perhaps even a military chaplain. Also, since I desire to be a religious priest, I am obviously willing to make some personal sacrifices.

This is the part that keeps coming through in your posts, a vocation to the priesthood is not something someone chooses because they wouldn’t mind doing it. It’s a calling that God places in the hearts of faithful catholic men. Those who answer it should know that they are going to sacrifice their own ideas and ambitions for their life in order to best serve the church. Consider this scripture given to us by Paul;

Yet I live, no longer I, but Christ lives in me; insofar as I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God who has loved me and given himself up for me. Galatians 2:20

You can’t answer God completely while still having your own ideas of how things are going to play out in terms of your success or life goals. Once you are ordained, you belong to Christ and the Catholic church, not yourself. After all it is only by the will of God that you would have been called and had your calling confirmed by the superior of your order. Why would God’s will be any less important after that point.

 

[Young_Thinker]

I do not think that I want to go into the Vatican’s diplomatic corps(too much time away from home), so I guess that I would not really need a degree in canon law. Unless one is really interested in law is that usually the only reason nowadays why a priest would acquire one? As a side-note, being of Near Eastern heritage and having some interest in the Carmelites, Eastern canon law(degrees of which are apparently only offered by the Orientale) does sound intriguing to me.

 

[Young_Thinker]

This is the part that keeps coming through in your posts, a vocation to the priesthood is not something someone chooses because they wouldn’t mind doing it. It’s a calling that God places in the hearts of faithful catholic men. Those who answer it should know that they are going to sacrifice their own ideas and ambitions for their life in order to best serve the church. Consider this scripture given to us by Paul;

Yet I live, no longer I, but Christ lives in me; insofar as I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God who has loved me and given himself up for me. Galatians 2:20

You can’t answer God completely while still having your own ideas of how things are going to play out in terms of your success or life goals. Once you are ordained, you belong to Christ and the Catholic church, not yourself. After all it is only by the will of God that you would have been called and had your calling confirmed by the superior of your order. Why would God’s will be any less important after that point.

No, no, I would love being a priest. I appreciate your insights, though. I admit, however, that I am a very passionate young man; I think that I can eventually conquer lust, but I doubt that the fire of ambition will ever be extinguished within me. I just have to channel my will to do God’s work, and I know that I can do that. La petit fleur de Jesus said “I want to be a saint.” I think that I have a similar mentality.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Answer:

Three things:

You can’t get it out of your mind.

Obstacles melt away. Amazing coincidences happen that steer you in the direction.

You are willing to surrender your self. You feel that you would do whatever your bishop sent you do do.

Keep in mind that many times, priests have been sent on ministries that they knew would be certain death … when the Irish immigrants to Canada came down with cholera and priests were sent to minister to them and they all died. When priests were sent to parts of Africa or upstate New York and they were martyred. When priests were sent in to parts of England or to the Soviet Union and they were found out and executed.

Are you prepared to do things that you might not prefer to do? Or are you prepared to be turned down for things that you would prefer to do? Are you willing to turn your whole life over to your bishop and let him decide what you should do and where you will be sent?

You might want to contact Fransiscans for the Renewal. That is Fr. Benedict Groeschel’s order, which is expanding rapidly. He’s not running it day-to-day anymore, but he founded it.

 

[JesuitLoyola]

No, no, I would love being a priest. I appreciate your insights, though. I admit, however, that I am a very passionate young man; I think that I can eventually conquer lust, but I doubt that the fire of ambition will ever be extinguished within me. I just have to channel my will to do God’s work, and I know that I can do that. La petit fleur de Jesus said “I want to be a saint.” I think that I have a similar mentality.

Ambition is good! As long as it’s directed for the good of the kingdom. Personal ambition is a definite negative quality in a priest though

 

[Young_Thinker]

Ambition is good! As long as it’s directed for the good of the kingdom. Personal ambition is a definite negative quality in a priest though

All right. However, as for the issue of personal ambition(which can manifest itself in a variety of ways), as I have said before, it is not mutually exclusive with what is considered to be nobler traits.