How do you know if it's God or your own thoughts?

[heyitsmay]

When you’re praying, how do you know whether something that comes into your mind is from God or from yourself? Lately when I pray, and ask God “what do you want from me?” I keep thinking “nun” or “become a nun” before I can even finish the question and I don’t know if it’s me since I’m preoccupied with that and really don’t want to be called, or if it’s actually God. I have OCD, so that could factor in. I don’t know if it’s God or me imagining what God would say. Today, though, I was praying “Jesus, help me” and it popped into my head “I am always helping.” Which is true, so I don’t know if the nun things are from God or not.

 

[dee_burk]

Sounds like you may need some spiritual direction, set up and appointment with your priest.

 

[Ad_Orientem]

You don’t need a special revelation to enter religious life. Entrance is just the beginning of discernment.

cf. St. Thomas, S.T. II-II, Q189 The Entrance into Religious Life. Excerpt from Article 10:

Long deliberation and the advice of many are required in great matters of doubt . . . . [However,] considered by itself . . . entrance into religion is a greater good, and to doubt about this is to disparage Christ Who gave this counsel. . . . n relation to the strength of the person who intends to enter . . . there is no room for doubt . . . since those who enter religion trust not to be able to stay by their own power, but by the assistance of the divine power . . . Yet if there be some special obstacle (such as bodily weakness, a burden of debts, or the like) in such cases a man must deliberate and take counsel with such as are likely to help and not hinder him. . . . On these matters, however, one should not take long deliberation. . . . [Concerning] the way of entering religion, and which order one ought to enter . . . about such matters also one may take counsel of those who will not stand in one’s way.

 

[Bookcat]

The fact that you note that you have OCD would immediately call into question such a “thought”.

Discern your vocation the normal way.

 

[ccmcmg]

For me, at times it is easy; I have a bad habit I’m trying to break, and if it appears in the ‘thought’ in my mind, I know it’s me.

I have felt God give me answers in my heart, without my asking or considering them. I have heard His voice clearly as well, but lately, it’s been of the answer placed in my heart variety.

God bless you on your journey and discernment.

Christina

 

[DBT]

Even when our thoughts are truly inspired we should still be cautious … especially if we think we’re being told to do something. As St. John fo the Cross describes, we often hear wrong and end up “baptizing our opinions as the voice of God:”

catholictreasury.info/books/ascent/asc45.php

As a matter of prayerful reflection and the fostering of interior acts of love, though, such inspired thoughts are a principal way in which the Holy Spirit teaches us. In that context we are likely on safe ground … provided discernment is added before action is taken on those thoughts.

Dave

 

[christ2or3]

When you’re praying, how do you know whether something that comes into your mind is from God or from yourself? Lately when I pray, and ask God “what do you want from me?” I keep thinking “nun” or “become a nun” before I can even finish the question and I don’t know if it’s me since I’m preoccupied with that and really don’t want to be called, or if it’s actually God. I have OCD, so that could factor in. I don’t know if it’s God or me imagining what God would say. Today, though, I was praying “Jesus, help me” and it popped into my head “I am always helping.” Which is true, so I don’t know if the nun things are from God or not.

you should start keeping a journal-- and writing it down-- and as time goes by it will be easer to decern.

i have been involved with a number of christian prophetic groups-- and 4 example as you mature in understanding – it will be come easer–
this is like as Saint Paul said when you get together

Eph. 5:15-21 and called the message, “Spirit-filled Singing.” I shared six characteristics of singing that are a result of being filled with the Spirit.

My first point was “Spirit-filled singing is to each other,” and based on Eph. 5:19 where Paul says we’re “addressing one another.” You’d think in a passage about singing praise to God that Paul would begin with God. He doesn’t. The first focus of our singing Paul mentions is not God, but one another. Col. 3:16 fills this idea out and says that we’re “teaching and admonishing one another.” This shows us that one of the primary aims of corporate worship is meant to be building each other up, not simply having our own personal encounter with God.

you really need to find a charismatic catholic forum – if you want to develop –

 

[WaitingForJesus]

I would like to put a specific example out there as I struggle to understand St. John of the Cross, but have thought about this topic a fair amount. Sorry for the length, but it is an encouraging story, and also I wonder what those with more experience think. First I should provide a little background. I am a convert. I was raised as a Baptist, but after leaving home basically fell away from that and was unsure of the existence of God. For the next 25 years, I lived a very sinful life. Shortly after my reception into the Catholic church, I felt compelled to reach out to a former colleague. I had seen him a few months before at his retirement. He was very ill, and I felt that something was not right between him and God. I kept having this thought that I was going to be sorry if I didn’t contact him. I had realized during that brief visit that he was Catholic, and so I wrote an email offerring to come visit or take him to mass. He called me, completely overwhelmed. He asked me to come visit and we made arrangements for me to stop by several days later. The next day he collapsed and nearly died because his blood sugar had skyrocketed to 700. The doctors got him stabilized, and he returned home in time for my visit.

After this phone call, I was uncertain about what I was going to say to him when I visited. I had no idea what to do and prayed about that. Later, I kept having a weird thought pop into my head. Sometimes it would come when I was thinking about this man, but other times when I was doing other things like cleaning the house. The thought was this: “This is a Mission of Mercy. You will be like an angel”. Each time it would come, I would think how crazy that was. It was ridiculous that someone with a past like me could “go on mission” or be “like an angel”. But, then I would get this memory of my Pastor standing on the steps in front of the alter at our church, putting his hands on my head while praying for me to receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit. It was as if I was being reassured that I had been given whatever I needed to do this at that time.

Several other things happened over the intervening days to clarify for me what I needed to tell him, e.g. scriptures perfect for the situation in the mass readings. I went to visit, and we spoke at length. There was in fact much wrong. He had been away from the church for nearly 20 years. He was in great need of pastoral care and the sacraments, but because of his circumstances was unable to arrange it for himself. At one point during our conversation/prayer, he said “please don’t take this the wrong way as I know it is going to sound strange. I keep looking at you and thinking you are like an angel”. I was stunned and my eyes welled with tears. I suddenly realized that those strange thoughts I had before had been from God. And that now he was talking to me through this man. I suppose that others might think this was a coincidence, but I did not.

So, between that experience and a few others, I learned a few things from that might be helpful for you. #1 -pay attention if what you are being told is a bit weird, i.e. something you would not normally think or do. #2 - pay attention if it is insistent or keeps coming up. #3 - pay attention if it is later validated in a totally different way (e.g. through another person’s words, something you read, or external events). #4 - pay attention if it gives you reassurance of God’s love for you or to do something difficult but good. And, last I just want to mention that sometimes it doesn’t really matter if it was God or your own thoughts. If the thought/inspiration is a good one, either for your soul or someone else’s, you should consider doing it regardless of the source.

As others have pointed out, there is a process for discernment. This is a good thing for you to consider doing. The process will help you to decide if it is right for you. God bless you!

 

[DBT]

I would like to put a specific example out there as I struggle to understand St. John of the Cross …

And

I learned a few things from that might be helpful for you. #1 -pay attention if what you are being told is a bit weird, i.e. something you would not normally think or do. #2 - pay attention if it is insistent or keeps coming up. #3 - pay attention if it is later validated in a totally different way (e.g. through another person’s words, something you read, or external events). #4 - pay attention if it gives you reassurance of God’s love for you or to do something difficult but good. And, last I just want to mention that sometimes it doesn’t really matter if it was God or your own thoughts. If the thought/inspiration is a good one, either for your soul or someone else’s, you should consider doing it regardless of the source.

Thank you so much for this WaitingForJesus! You really helped me better understand something I’ve been grappling with in my mind.

Yes, St. John of the Cross can be difficult. And much of it has to do with language. It might not be obvious at first when he speaks of “successive words” that it’s what we think of in more modern terms as inspired thought. There are countless other examples like this throughout his writing.

Anyway, what he talks about in that link is really something more like pre-discernment: how to tell if our thoughts are truly inspired and what our disposition in prayerful reflection should be. His main concern is that readers not run around all willy-nilly thinking everything that pops in their mind is the voice of God telling them what to do. Testing the spirit is implicit in that link … but he really doesn’t say how one should do that (as perhaps a St. Ignatius does).

And that’s where your post comes into play. IMO, what you say is precisely the type of things we should do to discern one’s thoughts. Your words are a very nice complement to what St. John lays out for us!

I hope your post will help the OP and any others who might be reading.

Thank you!
Dave

 

[InLight247]

Ignatius expects that those who know what pleases God and act accordingly will be blessed. And Ignatius is talking from experience—his own and others’—not from theory.

According to him, if we are trying to live a life in accordance with God’s good pleasure, the best criterion for deciding whether an experience or a choice or a way of acting is of God or not is to ask whether we find ourselves “blessed,” in the sense of having “courage and strength, consolations, tears, inspirations, and peace.” This rule echoes Paul’s words to the Galatians based on his own experiences: “The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control” (5:22–23). In fact, in the same rule Ignatius notes that “it is characteristic of the evil spirit to harass with anxiety, to afflict with sadness, to raise obstacles backed by fallacious reasonings that disturb the soul.”

ignatianspirituality.com/making-good-decisions/discernment-of-spirits/how-to-know-that-a-choice-is-right/

ALSO

Seven Practical Discernment Techniques
(Spiritual Exercises, [178-187])

1. Ignatius suggests that we start the decision-making process by putting before our mind what it is we want to decide about. For example, we might be trying to decide whether or nor to enter a specific religious community.

1. He then asks us to pray for the grace to “try to be like a balance at equilibrium, without leaning to either side” (Spiritual Exercises, [179]). In other words, we should try to the extent possible not to prefer one option to the other but only desire to do God’s will. To help us maintain focus and perspective, he asks us to keep the ultimate end and goal of our existence clearly before us.

1. Then we pray for God to enlighten and move us to seek only what is most conducive to God’s service and praise.

1. One suggestion Ignatius makes is to imagine a person we never met who seeks our help in how to respond to God’s call in the same decision we are considering. We then observe what advice we give this person and follow it ourselves. This is helpful since most of us are better at giving others advice than at figuring out what we should do.

1. Another suggestion is that we imagine ourselves at the end of our lives either on our deathbed or after our death standing before Christ our Judge. How would we feel about our decision then? What would we say to Christ about the decision we have just made? We should choose now the course of action that would give us happiness and joy in looking back on it from our deathbed and in presenting it to Christ on the day of our judgment.

1. When we do not experience inner clarity about the correct decision to be made, Ignatius suggests that we use our reason to weigh the matter carefully to attempt to come to a decision in line with our living out God’s will in our lives. To do this we should, bearing in mind our ultimate goal, list and weigh the advantages and disadvantages for us of the decision at hand, for example, the reasons for and against entering religious life or a specific religious community. We are then to consider which alternatives seem more reasonable and decide according to the more weighty motives – not from our selfish inclinations. Looking over our list of “pros” and “cons” for the decision at hand, we should notice if any of the reasons listed stand out from the others and why and see which way this might point us. This technique can help us move from inner confusion to greater clarity at least as to the issues that need to be attended to and help separate out which are more significant.

1. Having come to a decision, we turn again to God and beg for signs of God’s confirmation that the decision is leading us toward God’s service and praise. The usual sign of this confirmation from God is an experience of peacefulness about the decision. The confirmed decision has a feeling of “rightness” about it, and we feel a sense of God’s presence, blessing, and love. This is a very important step, since the feeling of rightness, peace, and joy about a decision is a positive indicator that we have made the right decision whereas feelings of anxiety, heaviness, sadness, and darkness often indicate the opposite.

Read more:marquette.edu/faith/ignatian-principles-for-making-decisions.php

 

[odile53]

St. Ignatius does preface the above direction with the caveat that any decision and all its components, if truly coming from God, will be in keeping with His word and will, and with the teachings of the Church. If a person, in other words, gets an “inspiration” to commit an evil act in order to attain a greater good, the inspiration is most decidedly not from God.

He encourages us to use our faculties of intellect and memory in discerning what he calls the movement of spirits. If a decision flies in the face of common sense, there is a strong possibility that it is not of God.

Additionally, he does recommend that one make two lists of the pros and cons of possible outcomes of the decision in question. So doing some journaling about your thoughts on the matter, and then taking your journal to a conference with your priest or your spiritual director would be a very useful thing to do.

 

[DBT]

Thank you Inlight for those links!

The issue that I was grappling with alluded to earlier (not that any one cares ) has to do with when and how the “pre-discernment” of St. John of the Cross becomes the simple intuition of a perfected soul as described here by de Caussade:

catholictreasury.info/books/abandon/ab40.php

The bridge from the A and B of the above is precisely the use of formal discernment processes you and others provided.

As de Caussade describes, years of prayerful reasoning may indeed lead some souls to the point where their union with God is such that intuition and instinct replace the need for much thinking and analyzing in their daily decisions (and I exclude “big” issue from that statement such as discerning a vocation). The problem is, and as St. John shows in that first link, many beginners in the way of prayer behave as though they already have the type of intuition I describe.

Discernment is the key.

Thanks!
Dave

 

[InLight247]

Originally by DBT
As de Caussade describes, years of prayerful reasoning may indeed lead some souls to the point where their union with God is such that intuition and instinct replace the need for much thinking and analyzing in their daily decisions (and I exclude “big” issue from that statement such as discerning a vocation). The problem is, and as St. John shows in that first link, many beginners in the way of prayer behave as though they already have the type of intuition I describe.

Dave, I totally agree with what you said above.

Though I have not reached union with God as such, I have experienced the instinct and intuition you talked about. Several years ago my Pastor asked me to take a volunteer Chair position in the parish, overseeing different ministries and sponsoring activities of my own vision. I felt shocked to be asked, but I also immediately knew I was supposed to do it(my intuition and instinct).

That decision making was not as big as discerning a vocation, but not as small things in daily life either. I held a full time job along with many other responsibilities at the time. Although my gut feeling was to say “yes”, I used the Ignatius method to pray and discern for two weeks. Mainly I used #2 of the Seven Practical Discernment Techniques of Ignatius. I wrote down 10 reasons for not taking the Chair position and prayed for one week. Then I wrote down 10 reasons for assuming the responsibility, prayed for another week. The prayer process confirmed my intuition. Without any previous experience, only knew a handful people at the large church, and felt scared, I said yes to my Pastor.

Looking back, I know both my intuition and discernment were correct. I see good things have been brought to the parish through the committee I formed (a core team) to help. God has blessed our work. Often times we know if we have followed God’s will only by hindsight.

Just to share an example and hope it may be helpful for OP and others.

 

[WaitingForJesus]

Thank you so much for this WaitingForJesus! You really helped me better understand something I’ve been grappling with in my mind.

Yes, St. John of the Cross can be difficult. And much of it has to do with language. It might not be obvious at first when he speaks of “successive words” that it’s what we think of in more modern terms as inspired thought. There are countless other examples like this throughout his writing.

Anyway, what he talks about in that link is really something more like pre-discernment: how to tell if our thoughts are truly inspired and what our disposition in prayerful reflection should be. His main concern is that readers not run around all willy-nilly thinking everything that pops in their mind is the voice of God telling them what to do. Testing the spirit is implicit in that link … but he really doesn’t say how one should do that (as perhaps a St. Ignatius does).

And that’s where your post comes into play. IMO, what you say is precisely the type of things we should do to discern one’s thoughts. Your words are a very nice complement to what St. John lays out for us!

I hope your post will help the OP and any others who might be reading.

Thank you!
Dave

Thank you for the feedback Dave. I was thinking the same thing about St. John of the Cross – the difficulty is in the language. There are terms/phrases I don’t understand plus very long sentences. When I do manage to get it, I always find it enlightening and beautiful. But usually it takes multiple readings. I have read that post from the other day a couple of times. It made more sense today than yesterday, but it still hasn’t sunk in. I may have a question once it finally does. I always appreciate your “translations”.

I also understand the concern about not running off and thinking every thought comes from God. I worry about being deluded a lot! When I find that I have some uncertainty about whether or not I should do something I think God told me to do, I usually just ask him to make it clear to me. Often I find I’ll get seemingly random confirmation elsewhere or simply wake up a day or two later knowing what’s right and feeling very much at peace with the action or decision…much like #7 in the Ignatius information posted by InLight247. I find him a lot easier to understand. Thanks again.

 

[frank_mensah]

When you’re praying, how do you know whether something that comes into your mind is from God or from yourself? Lately when I pray, and ask God “what do you want from me?” I keep thinking “nun” or “become a nun” before I can even finish the question and I don’t know if it’s me since I’m preoccupied with that and really don’t want to be called, or if it’s actually God. I have OCD, so that could factor in. I don’t know if it’s God or me imagining what God would say. Today, though, I was praying “Jesus, help me” and it popped into my head “I am always helping.” Which is true, so I don’t know if the nun things are from God or not.

The word says that, when we pray we should believe that our prayer is been received - so as a child of God believe that every word that comes out from you or in your thought is from the Holy Spirit. Uncle Frank.

 

[scoobydoo6v92]

When you’re praying, how do you know whether something that comes into your mind is from God or from yourself? Lately when I pray, and ask God “what do you want from me?” I keep thinking “nun” or “become a nun” before I can even finish the question and I don’t know if it’s me since I’m preoccupied with that and really don’t want to be called, or if it’s actually God. I have OCD, so that could factor in. I don’t know if it’s God or me imagining what God would say. Today, though, I was praying “Jesus, help me” and it popped into my head “I am always helping.” Which is true, so I don’t know if the nun things are from God or not.

sometimes we make things way more complicated. If you feel being a nun is what God wants for you, then search it out. Discern it with a spiritual director that is a nun. I think personally he wants you to be a nun. I think that it is a beautiful thing. Whether you are real young middle aged or what ever. If you give God your total dedication and end up in formation and at some point in time you discern that you are not called ever or at this time, you lost nothing, you don’t know what impact you have when in formation. but the only way to truly discern is enter formation to which ever order you feel fits your mission and if accepted, you have more pieces to the puzzle, then if you feel peace and it al lfits together and you begin to log years in your discernment to your final vows, That is indicative of a call. you won’t find out till you search out this feeling by doing. I found out I am not called at this time for priesthood, there is another call God wants me to fulfill.

 

[KiwiBliss]

When you’re praying, how do you know whether something that comes into your mind is from God or from yourself? Lately when I pray, and ask God “what do you want from me?” I keep thinking “nun” or “become a nun” before I can even finish the question and I don’t know if it’s me since I’m preoccupied with that and really don’t want to be called, or if it’s actually God. I have OCD, so that could factor in. I don’t know if it’s God or me imagining what God would say. Today, though, I was praying “Jesus, help me” and it popped into my head “I am always helping.” Which is true, so I don’t know if the nun things are from God or not.

Somewhat have a similar encounter, except mine happens naturally thru experiences. My spiritual friend (consecrated sister) who knows me says that it’s likely I think of being a nun because I want to help people: if they need more nuns in religious life, I’d do it… if they need more laywomen, I’d do that… if they need more devoted mothers in married life, I’d do it… b/c I’m a ‘helper.’ …doesn’t mean, though that it’s for me. We are all called to help one another in whatever ministry fits us to serve God best AND what will make us happy go hand in hand… otherwise we would be preparing ourselves for failure and emptiness in a sense…God didn’t design us to be unhappy in serving Him, but to live to serve & love cheerfully. Pray & strive to put God at the core of your life, & everything will fall into place.

 

[KiwiBliss]

sometimes we make things way more complicated. If you feel being a nun is what God wants for you, then search it out. Discern it with a spiritual director that is a nun. I think personally he wants you to be a nun. I think that it is a beautiful thing. Whether you are real young middle aged or what ever. If you give God your total dedication and end up in formation and at some point in time you discern that you are not called ever or at this time, you lost nothing, you don’t know what impact you have when in formation. but the only way to truly discern is enter formation to which ever order you feel fits your mission and if accepted, you have more pieces to the puzzle, then if you feel peace and it al lfits together and you begin to log years in your discernment to your final vows, That is indicative of a call. you won’t find out till you search out this feeling by doing. I found out I am not called at this time for priesthood, there is another call God wants me to fulfill.

I agree with you partially. The feeling of experiencing peace is not always an indicator that she/he’s found the right vocation. I visited convents & retreats to meet specific monastery nuns & apostolic sisters, but was most attracted to their outdoor gardens & buildings… not so much the people who lived there & their charisms. For me, sitting in nature & embracing God’s extrinsic glory gives me natural peace- the same peaceful feeling I have when visiting convent gardens & their buildings.

Not all experiences of peace are meant to give a definite answer as to where someone should be placed. God finds a way to move us all in different ways for each unique person, what works for one may not work for another. Each experience though has a purpose and reason whether temporary or long term.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

When I was going through 12 weeks of discernment for the Diaconate, I learned that we first seek to follow God’s will, whatever that may be. You’ll know its God’s will when the doors to where you think He’s leading you, open and you have a peace about the decisions to walk those doors. If the doors don’t open and you go through them anyway, you’ll be anxious and met with frustration rather than peace.

For myself, I knew God was not calling me to be a Deacon and when I decided after the 12 week discernment period not to continue. I left the program and I felt peace about it. Also, things began to change in my family which would’ve taken me out of training for the diaconate, so I knew it was the right decision. However, my wife and myself both professed vows with the Secular Order of Discalced Carmelites, and that decision brought great peace and joy, I knew it was God’s will.

Today I look at my friend who is a Deacon in my parish and know that was not God’s will for me.

Jim