How do you know that there's an afterlife?

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Is the only way to know that there is an afterlife bc of Revelation and faith? If you take religion out of the equation, is it reasonable to think that when one’s body dies, some part of their conscience still “lives” on? If yes, the reason is not apparent to me, so please explain. If no, does that mean the hope of an afterlife is just wishful thinking? If it is wishful thinking (aka hope), why do people wish for an afterlife?

Is it possible to believe in an afterlife (based on faith that one’s religion’s teachings on the existence of an afterlife is right) but not desire an afterlife? (so it’s kind of the opposite of hope - like you don’t want to believe, but you do.) Is annihilationism preferable to eternal torment?

If hell is eternal separation from God, is hell not really eternal torment to an atheist? Is eternal separation from God akin to annihilationism for an atheist?
 
Is the only way to know that there is an afterlife bc of Revelation and faith? If you take religion out of the equation, is it reasonable to think that when one’s body dies, some part of their conscience still “lives” on? If yes, the reason is not apparent to me, so please explain. If no, does that mean the hope of an afterlife is just wishful thinking? If it is wishful thinking (aka hope), why do people wish for an afterlife?
I don’t think it’s reasonable, no. Consider that every piece of our subjectivity resides in the brain. And if we damage one part of the brain, it’s possible to stop being able to recognize faces. If we damage another piece, we can stop remembering the names of animals, but we can still remember the names of tools. Damage still another part, and we stop being able to regulate our emotions. Now, what religion and faith asks us to believe, is that after we damage the entire brain (at death), our consciousness re-emerges, completely formed, able to understand English and recognize Grandma.

So I think it is wishful thinking, and not difficult to understand why folks would want it. Nobody really wants to accept the idea that after we die, our consciousness is very likely headed back the oblivion pool from where it sprang.
Is it possible to believe in an afterlife (based on faith that one’s religion’s teachings on the existence of an afterlife is right) but not desire an afterlife? (so it’s kind of the opposite of hope - like you don’t want to believe, but you do.) Is annihilationism preferable to eternal torment?
In principle, sure it’s possible. If Christian Theism were ever proven true, I would believe it, but I still wouldn’t want the Christian afterlife - not if the choice is eternal torment on one hand, or eternal worship of my Creator on the other.
If hell is eternal separation from God, is hell not really eternal torment to an atheist? Is eternal separation from God akin to annihilationism for an atheist?
If hell is not the fire and brimstone conception that it’s often portrayed as, but simply not being in heaven, it doesn’t sound, at first blush, like anything I would find eternally tormenting.
 
We don’t know there’s an afterlife.

I agree that we live in our brains. Surely when our brains get drunk, we get drunk. But that doesn’t necessarily mean we will not go on afterwards. This world is an appearance, and we believe there is a world beyond. Just as we can make an exact copy of our singer’s latest CD on another CD without taking away anything from the original, we may live on in the next world without taking anything away from the fact we were once incarnate (in+carne=in the flesh).
 
For me, it’s about the evidence. I found much evidence of the afterlife and of supernatural phenomena in the Catholic Church (also some in the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Churches). I know there’s an afterlife because I have been convinced by the evidence.
 
We don’t know there’s an afterlife.

I agree that we live in our brains. Surely when our brains get drunk, we get drunk. But that doesn’t necessarily mean we will not go on afterwards. This world is an appearance, and we believe there is a world beyond. Just as we can make an exact copy of our singer’s latest CD on another CD without taking away anything from the original, we may live on in the next world without taking anything away from the fact we were once incarnate (in+carne=in the flesh).
Indeed, the Biblical account of a human being is a PHYSICAL being. Eternal life in Scripture is inseparable from a risen human body, pneumatikon soma.

The fact that you need a functional head for “being”, therefore, is no argument against eternal life. Eternal life is not in our human makeup per se, it is from God. A head will be provided. (As will shoulders and limbs):)🙂

ICXC NIKA
 
I think it boils down to a leap of faith.
What other aspect in life is it ok to act on faith, besides religion? This type of thinking gets people to do far-fetched things without reason. If you had reason, it’s not faith. By definition, you won’t be able to answer this.
 
I need only a few words to know there’s an afterlife, but that’s because I’ve thought of these matters for decades.

It’s impossible that everything that exists had to be caused.
There has to be an eternal God that created the universe and therefore Revelation is true, we will have an afterlife.

The atheists will want book length explanations of every word I wrote above, but I don’t need them. Been through all of it before.
 
I don’t think it’s reasonable, no. Consider that every piece of our subjectivity resides in the brain. And if we damage one part of the brain, it’s possible to stop being able to recognize faces. If we damage another piece, we can stop remembering the names of animals, but we can still remember the names of tools. Damage still another part, and we stop being able to regulate our emotions. Now, what religion and faith asks us to believe, is that after we damage the entire brain (at death), our consciousness re-emerges, completely formed, able to understand English and recognize Grandma.

So I think it is wishful thinking, and not difficult to understand why folks would want it. Nobody really wants to accept the idea that after we die, our consciousness is very likely headed back the oblivion pool from where it sprang.
Intrinsically bound to this conception is the notion that somehow, when we die, we will actually be aware of our condition - and thus be aware of any pleasure or suffering to which we might be subject. Consider that when we die, our subjectivity dies also, and we simply face an eternity of being utterly unaware. Is this really something to be feared?
If hell is not the fire and brimstone conception that it’s often portrayed as, but simply not being in heaven, it doesn’t sound, at first blush, like anything I would find eternally tormenting.
Fair enough, I guess, if you suppose that some kind of unity with your god is ultimate and eternal fulfilment, and to be denied this is ultimate and eternal frustration - but again, this requires the belief that any form of conscious awareness survives the death of all our biological processes…
 
Is the only way to know that there is an afterlife bc of Revelation and faith? If you take religion out of the equation, is it reasonable to think that when one’s body dies, some part of their conscience still “lives” on? If yes, the reason is not apparent to me, so please explain. If no, does that mean the hope of an afterlife is just wishful thinking? If it is wishful thinking (aka hope), why do people wish for an afterlife?

Is it possible to believe in an afterlife (based on faith that one’s religion’s teachings on the existence of an afterlife is right) but not desire an afterlife? (so it’s kind of the opposite of hope - like you don’t want to believe, but you do.) Is annihilationism preferable to eternal torment?

If hell is eternal separation from God, is hell not really eternal torment to an atheist? Is eternal separation from God akin to annihilationism for an atheist?
Existence, in and of itself, is an undeniable good. IOW, it’s better to exist than not exist. The desire for continued existence is innate in us, IMO, and not merely a survival instinct. The hope we have inside for continued existence, especially existence in some kind of unending happiness, is only reasonable and should also, if justice rules the day, be attainable if, as it turned out, this universe was created by a God of love and goodness.

According to our faith, just such a God was said to have created this world and demonstrated His love and goodness-and will for man- most definitively via the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus. And He enables us to actually believe in this hope via grace-His direct activity within us, if we’re willing to accept it. He’s always left it up to us, however-our wills are not violated by Him. Hell is the willful rejection of God-of love and goodness. It’s to believe one’s happiness is greater when separated from God.
 
Originally Posted by atheist ASimon forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
I don’t think it’s reasonable, no. Consider that every piece of our subjectivity resides in the brain.
That’s impossible.

Human beings:
  • remember an apparently infinite number of things
  • understand apparently any concept, even those that have nothing to do with survival
  • appreciate aesthetics, vist art museums, go to concerts etc
  • have empathy for and loyalty to familly, friends, community, country, and the world at large, even for people unseen and unknown in remote parts of the world, as well as for animals.
There is no organization of matter in the brain or anything else that could do all these things and do them so well

We are not just animals.

Also,
consider the Bible.
It has hundreds of predictions that proved true hundreds of years later.

If the Bible was the product of human beings alone,…

…it would be the wonder of all wonders ! :eek: :confused: 🤷

Nothing I just wrote will satisfy the atheists. They will bring in tons of meaningless verbiage from all corners to shotgun and snowjob the issue. :hey_bud::takeoff:
I wrote this post for the believers. 🙂 :harp:
 
Is the only way to know that there is an afterlife bc of Revelation and faith? If you take religion out of the equation, is it reasonable to think that when one’s body dies, some part of their conscience still “lives” on? If yes, the reason is not apparent to me, so please explain. If no, does that mean the hope of an afterlife is just wishful thinking? If it is wishful thinking (aka hope), why do people wish for an afterlife?

Is it possible to believe in an afterlife (based on faith that one’s religion’s teachings on the existence of an afterlife is right) but not desire an afterlife? (so it’s kind of the opposite of hope - like you don’t want to believe, but you do.) Is annihilationism preferable to eternal torment?

If hell is eternal separation from God, is hell not really eternal torment to an atheist? Is eternal separation from God akin to annihilationism for an atheist?
Is the only way to know that there is an afterlife bc of Revelation and faith?
I don’t think so. Humans have a predilection for belief in life after death. Every culture, civilization, race in every place and time on earth, from as far back as art and burial existed had beliefs in an afterlife.
So it isn’t just a two thousand year old phenomenon, nor just a primitive hangover from one distant tribe or culture, but it is a universal predilection in humans regardless of their appearance in any particular space or time on earth. The ability of the human mind to conceive and consider an afterlife is like Columbus’ ability to conceive and consider another continent across the ocean when he found coconuts washed up on a Portugese beach.
If you take religion out of the equation, is it reasonable to think that when one’s body dies, some part of their conscience still “lives” on?
I think so. A phenomenon of fairly recent origin is the one which tried to reduce everything to the smallest particles. So that the object then becomes like a machine made of tiny indivisible gogs. Its a fairly obsolete idea now because everyone now knows that it is not that simple.
A person is not made of indivisible cogs of quarks etc., the quarks themselves become an endless invisible folding of something which is neither energy nor material. It defies definitions and descriptions; in fact, it does not really exist - if we see the world as divided between things material and things immaterial, things real and things unreal.
Imagining a creature capable of love and having a unique personality who is made from an endless stream of quarks. The soul of the person can live in this world of quarks, using and controlling quarks to give expression to its personality in a material way. But the quarks themselves are made of non-material stuff, in fact the stuff they are made of and in which the personality of the person resides is more akin to spiritual stuff than any thing material.

Quarks don’t die. And if a spiritual type whole personality assumes a material form and existence by using a stream of quarks, themselves made of non-material or spiritual like substance, this places the personality and person above the temporary collection of quarks in order of importance. The personality resides outside the material realm, somewhere deep inside the mysterious reality of a non-material world. A non-material world which is capable of sustaining within itself a complete unit of being, like a human personality. The human personality in this case becomes almost an independent entity. Its completeness and independence as a whole almost becomes a necessity and independent itself from any material necessity of expression through a material world. In short, the human personality and its uniqueness, and its love, become an eternal or spiritual necessary reality.
 
Is the only way to know that there is an afterlife bc of Revelation and faith? If you take religion out of the equation, is it reasonable to think that when one’s body dies, some part of their conscience still “lives” on? If yes, the reason is not apparent to me, so please explain. If no, does that mean the hope of an afterlife is just wishful thinking? If it is wishful thinking (aka hope), why do people wish for an afterlife?

Is it possible to believe in an afterlife (based on faith that one’s religion’s teachings on the existence of an afterlife is right) but not desire an afterlife? (so it’s kind of the opposite of hope - like you don’t want to believe, but you do.) Is annihilationism preferable to eternal torment?

If hell is eternal separation from God, is hell not really eternal torment to an atheist? Is eternal separation from God akin to annihilationism for an atheist?
Historical evidence for the resurrection of Jesus provides good reason for belief in the afterlife.

See NT Wright’s book, Surprised by Hope
 
Intrinsically bound to this conception is the notion that somehow, when we die, we will actually be aware of our condition - and thus be aware of any pleasure or suffering to which we might be subject. Consider that when we die, our subjectivity dies also, and we simply face an eternity of being utterly unaware. Is this really something to be feared?
I certainly don’t think so. The Mark Twain quote is instructive, I think: “I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.”
 
Originally Posted by Sair
Intrinsically bound to this conception is the notion that somehow, when we die, we will actually be aware of our condition - and thus be aware of any pleasure or suffering to which we might be subject. Consider that when we die, our subjectivity dies also, and we simply face an eternity of being utterly unaware. Is this really something to be feared?
I don’t see a relation. You say you don’t fear death. Twain didn’t either. Relation with the subject being discussed (or is it just a chance you saw for more atheist propaganda)?

We know the atheist lore. Spare us the alphabetization class. Please relate to the subject or move on. Propaganda spam is tiresome.
 
Is the only way to know that there is an afterlife bc of Revelation and faith? If you take religion out of the equation, is it reasonable to think that when one’s body dies, some part of their conscience still “lives” on? If yes, the reason is not apparent to me, so please explain. If no, does that mean the hope of an afterlife is just wishful thinking? If it is wishful thinking (aka hope), why do people wish for an afterlife?

Is it possible to believe in an afterlife (based on faith that one’s religion’s teachings on the existence of an afterlife is right) but not desire an afterlife? (so it’s kind of the opposite of hope - like you don’t want to believe, but you do.) Is annihilationism preferable to eternal torment?

If hell is eternal separation from God, is hell not really eternal torment to an atheist? Is eternal separation from God akin to annihilationism for an atheist?
Belief isn’t necessary. You will find out for yourself, eventually. In the mean time, there are many accounts of those who were clinically dead who reported heavenly experiences. Same with many who meditate. The sagest advice in either case is to ignore the phenomenon as it is yet intermediate to a fuller realization that might come with further inquiry, but will come inevitably sometime anyway. But it is fun to focus and do critical work in this area.

Belief never matters in the realm of Reality. What is, IS, religion, atheism or whatever. Religion and atheism are both wonderful for keeping the mind busy, but until one goes farther than that, a vial piece of experiential information is missing from the equation and calculations inevitably fall short of actuality.

Strictly speaking, there isn’t a before or after life, only Life as it always already eternally IS. Even physics verifies this by revealing that time as we experience it is an illusion.
 
I don’t see a relation. You say you don’t fear death. Twain didn’t either. Relation with the subject being discussed (or is it just a chance you saw for more atheist propaganda)?

We know the atheist lore. Spare us the alphabetization class. Please relate to the subject or move on. Propaganda spam is tiresome.
I have no idea what you’re on about.
 
Plainly, no one knows if there is an afterlife.

For Christians, the belief in one is inextricable with the belief in Christ.🙂

👍
 
I have no idea what you’re on about.
I’m not them but I think they mean, we all know the atheist argument: “we don’t fear death, it’s just a headful of darkness”. O.K. We get it; that wasn’t the question.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA, everybody!
 
I’m not them but I think they mean, we all know the atheist argument: “we don’t fear death, it’s just a headful of darkness”. O.K. We get it; that wasn’t the question.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA, everybody!
Actually, that was the question - one of them, at any rate. Samiam1611 asked if the afterlife was wishful thinking. I responded that I thought it was - and supported that with the idea that many people who believe in an afterlife don’t want to accept the alternative - they fear death and the resulting oblivion. Sair responded to my response asking if eternal non-awareness was something to be scared of, and I responded to his response that I didn’t think it was - with the Twain quote as support. To which Filius Prodigus dropped in, blathering that we’re somehow off-topic with my/our propaganda spam.
 
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