How do you know which church is truly the church of Jesus Christ?

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allhers:
Well, you still have the Catholic Church all wrong, we all take part in the teachings of the Church, we are Christ to the world, it isn’t just the Clergy but all of us working together, I merely pointed out to you that the Nuns, Priests, Monks, etc…STILL live in Community as they did from the beginning. You apparently didn’t know that.
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Not from what I have seen. I have seen both sides of the fence. My wife is Catholic and when her father was on his death bed the hospital priest gave him his last rights, not his priest. Not one person from his parish visited even though he was very active in the church. On the other hand my father pastured a church of just over six hundred and was always on call.

Don’t get me wrong I know there are priests that are 100% active with their parish and totally involved. I know of one who was a great example in the city I grew up in. That doesn’t mean that it’s universal though. [By the way if nuns and monks lived in the communities from the beginning why the need for monasteries? ]

You sound as though you are becoming exasperated at my replies, please don’t. I’m not trying to goad you or say your church isn’t involved in the community. I am just saying that from what I have seen of the Catholic church the sense of community just isn’t there like it is in the Mennonite church. After all having a sense of community is much easier in a church of 600 vs a church of 5,000. This is one reason you really don’t see many Mennonite “Mega Churches”.
 
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Shlemele:
Not from what I have seen. I have seen both sides of the fence. My wife is Catholic and when her father was on his death bed the hospital priest gave him his last rights, not his priest. Not one person from his parish visited even though he was very active in the church. On the other hand my father pastured a church of just over six hundred and was always on call.

Don’t get me wrong I know there are priests that are 100% active with their parish and totally involved. I know of one who was a great example in the city I grew up in. That doesn’t mean that it’s universal though. [By the way if nuns and monks lived in the communities from the beginning why the need for monasteries? ]

You sound as though you are becoming exasperated at my replies, please don’t. I’m not trying to goad you or say your church isn’t involved in the community. I am just saying that from what I have seen of the Catholic church the sense of community just isn’t there like it is in the Mennonite church. After all having a sense of community is much easier in a church of 600 vs a church of 5,000. This is one reason you really don’t see many Mennonite “Mega Churches”.
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I think we need to clarify something. Nuns and Monks are lay people, they are not clergy. Just thought I would clear that up.

Peace
 
Hmm, interesting… I would have thought that nuns and monks would have been consitered clergy. I know one of the functions of monks was to pray for the dead, is this still the case?

I should also point out that my father in law is still alive and doing well. He made a full recovery so many prayers answered there.
 
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rjs1:
So you are saying that beliefs about thousands of life defining topics don’t matter, only belief concerning one topic defines whether any one of the thousands of denominations is the true Church.

What about:

abortion
marriage and divorce
euthanasia
baptism
the sacraments
heaven and hell
salvation
scripture
the intercesiion of the saints
the role of Mary
and many, many other issues of a life defining nature??

Don’t they matter? Of course they do.
Of course God has given us guidance on all these issues. And since the thousands of denominations have radically differing views on these issues we have to ask which is right.

Again, there is only one logical answer. The Church that traces its origin back to Jesus Christ Himself. The only Church that was not started by some human being centuries AFTER the time of Christ.
The Catholic Church.
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How about the Catholic Churches that don’t call themselves Roman. How about the Old Catholics and the PNCC. Even the pope say he can trace our line back to Christ.Even through we do not believe in the pope being infallibity. Mary a virgin all her life,in enternal hell., letting the divorce remarry and to get the eucharist,no orignal sin. We do believe the eucharist has true presence but not in transubstantion the true presence is above all human understanding.That mary was not avirgin all her life but is the mother of God Queen of haven and should be honored.and married priests. But the pope says we are still Catholic and have valid sacarments. But what you are saying we are not.
 
How do you know which church is truly the church of Jesus Christ?
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The answer is the Bible – End of Argument!

Which church is truly the Church of Jesus Christ? There are tens of thousands of different “Christian” religions. They can not all be right.

Not if RC ecclesiology is the only valid one - but whether it is, is one of the points at issue. Catholicism is obviously right, if one does not consider why other Christians do not agree that this rightness is obvious and unanswerable.​

For instance: is the Church a federation of Churches, united by a common profession of faith in Jesus Christ as Saviour & Lord, while not agreeing in all other points ? In principle, this is perfectly possible - if it is not possible that the Church of Christ can be such a thing, then a simple denial by us is not enough: such a denial needs to be argued for. ##
They are all different religions because they have different beliefs.
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They are Christians, & so, our brethren in Christ; so they share one religion with us; though not the same understanding of the Christian Faith - as truly so as we are. In some respects they may even be more Christian than the CC; just as we might be more Christian than they are in some respects.​

If you are wondering which religion is the true religion, the answer is easy. It’s the Roman Catholic Church. How do I know this? I have many reasons but one of the most convincing is the formation of the Bible.
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The basic reason for our certainty on this point is faith - which is not something that can be proved by reason. So we can hardly blame others - or be blamed ourselves (except by Christ, of course) - for “not getting” what may seem absurdly obvious. Reason can give arguments for our certainties, but these reasons won’t convince others, unless they has the capacity to receive them - somewhat as the spectrum of colours can’t be perceived without the sense of sight. All Christians have defective senses - but some have better sight (now and again, anyway) than others​

Arguing that the Catholic Church is wrong regarding the teachings of Jesus, on issues like Confession, Mass, The Eucharist, Infant Baptism, Mary Dogma and many other issues and using the Bible to do so, is insane.##On many of these points, Jesus did not teach at all - that is one of the reasons that not all Christians are “Papists” 🙂 ##
It would be like a security guard at K-Mart arguing with the Chief of the Los Angeles Police Department regarding department policy…
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[continue…]
 
[Continued & ended]
It would be like a peace activist, who has never served in the military, trying to explain a UCMJ section to an Army General. Crazy!
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All those people are the same in nature as each other - none of them is transcendent. God, by contrast, is transcendent: so our dealings with God are (so to put it) not the same sort of thing as our dealings with our fellow-men. We do not see God “face to face” as we do one another - the communion we each have with God, and the communion of the Church on earth as whole which she has with God, is always marked by obscurity - it is not the unclouded and unfading communion of the Blessed in Heaven with God. All these are reasons why we know God by faith, and not by sight, so long as we are in this world.​

Which makes sincere, intelligent, honest and well-informed differences among Christians possible; quite apart from the debilitating effects of original sin in the world and in us. So Christians need never think badly of those whom they disagree, and who disagree with them. ##
How do we know that the document described as the Declaration of Independence, of the United States is accurate? How do we know if the history surrounding the creation of the Declaration of Independence is accurate? None of us were there when it was created. We know because the organization or "keeper of the document’, the United States Government, said it is.
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IOW, we know by human faith - however, belief in the validity of Catholicism, as understood by the CC, requires not human faith but Divine faith - obscurities and all. We cannot research the credibility of what we believe, in quite the same manner as an historian might research the history of the Declaration of Independence. We can research some of the material details, such as the known history of this or that dogma or doctrine - but we can’t know by reason, beyond all possible doubt, that a dogma is solidly true - we have to trust God for its truth.​

 
Jimmy B:
The Catholic Church gave us the Bible. There has been an unbroken chain of Papal secession and leadership. There has also been an unbroken “chain of custody” of written documents, traditions, conversations, discussions, oral statements, research and information passed down and kept by the Catholic Church for over two thousand years. The bones of Saint Peter and other Apostles are buried under Saint Peter’s Basilica.

When it comes to religions, I believe one can apply “The fruit of the poisonous tree” rule to their credibility and authority. If a fruit baring tree is bad or poisonous then we can be sure that the fruit from that tree is also bad. In U.S. Courts, there is a Jury Instruction that’s says, if, as a Juror, you believe a witness was not truthful at any point during His/Her testimony, then you can disregard ALL of His/Her testimony. If you are reciting a Bible, you have to assume the Catholic Church was honest, truthful, and credible and had the authority to organize and pass it down to you.

How do we know that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are “The Gospels”? We know because the Catholic Church said they were. If the Catholic Church is wrong about any of its practices, then the Catholic Church is wrong in every aspect if it’s teachings, including the authenticity and accuracy of the Bible. Remember “The fruit of the poisonous tree”?
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Hi
One thing that I have noticed from many of the post’s in this forum. Catholics have taken ownership of Christ’s “Universal” church, so much in fact that it seems that it is no longer HIS church. I’ve read so many times that it is the Catholic church that gave us this and that, this and that, and it sickens me. Alot of you have displayed so much arrogance in your “We have done this and WE have done that”, post’s that it serves no purpose other that to turn non catholic’s off about YOUR church. There is a HUGE difference between those of you who feel this way and the way I feel, and that difference is that I give ALL credit and GLORY to God and you give it to YOUR church. Make no mistake about it when I say that it was GOD who gave us HIS Bible and not a self rightous church. If God opposes the proud, and I believe he does, then he opposes many of you who feel this way.
 
Jmj

Hello folks! I’ve been reading all the posts on this thread – what a trip! Lot’s of good observations have been made; I have definitely learned a few things! I am particularly interested in some of what the Mennonite Brethren churches believe and teach – fascinating stuff!

Shlemele, I think what a lot of Catholics are saying is that you just can’t “re-create the wheel.” Christ founded our Church, He did it long ago, and He gave His Church gifts that would preserve her until the end of time. You mentioned “As I stated earlier in this thread the Catholic church handed it down but the Catholic church does not go on scripture alone. Traditions are also used and put on the same level as the bible, this is what I have problems with.” While I understand your sentiment, you should really consider something… a piece of the puzzle that is much more important than you seem to realize… about the Holy Scriptures - the Bible itself IS a direct result of Sacred Tradition my friend. So, why would the Catholic Church “go on scripture alone”? Particularly when “going on scripture alone” is un-Scriptural! Scripture and Tradition go together, when you separate the two (in any time); you can nullify the meaning or importance of both. If you take the Bible away from Tradition – you cease to have any foundation for the Bible itself! Shlemele, you are circling around something very significant – this is very encouraging and very exciting! I am sure you will continue to seek the truth – I will pray for you! 👍

NonDenom, I suggest to you the possibility that you are not focusing on the right things. They say that “when a man points to something – a dog looks at the finger.” I think this means that someone who is incapable or unwilling to THINK will focus on the communication (or finger) itself… rather than what the finger is pointing to. Please, try not to be offended if the method of communication ruffles your feathers a bit – we in the Church Militant (on Earth) are incapable of “perfect” communication as our brothers and sisters in the Church Triumphant (in Heaven) are – so our tools are limited. 😉 I know it can be difficult, but please try to realize that the Catholic Church really IS your true home. If you give that fact some serious thought and prayer, you might just find it a little easier to learn about YOUR Church. “Catholics” may seem sinfully full of pride, but do not assume that all “pride” is sinful. As a parent, would you not be “proud” of your child that performed well at school or on the field? As a child, would you not be “proud” of your parent who is strong, respected by others, and does good things? There is nothing sinful in rejoicing and pointing to the lives of the Saints, for we can learn much from their examples… and they are truly our family! They are more our brothers and sisters, more our family than our families here on Earth –on Earth, we have NATURAL families (parents, siblings, children, and extended family) in Christ we have SUPERNATURAL families! We are joined to the Saints with this supernatural family bond by God Himself! And ALL the Saints do the same thing – they point us to God! They give Him the glory! Why don’t you take some time to learn more about your true home my friend? You have great gifts waiting for you here, if you would only come home to claim your inheritance! And if you did come home, you would be a great gift yourself! 🙂 “Be not afraid,” my friend.

May the Lord be with you all!

Jason
 
**How do you know which church is truly the church of Jesus Christ? **
I think the true Church would be the oldest Church, the one founded closest to the time of Jesus. And how old are all the protestant Churches today? None can trace themselves farther back farther than Martin Luther, and some cannot even trace themselves farther back than 100 years ago.
 
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NonDenom:
Hi
One thing that I have noticed from many of the post’s in this forum. Catholics have taken ownership of Christ’s “Universal” church, so much in fact that it seems that it is no longer HIS church. I’ve read so many times that it is the Catholic church that gave us this and that, this and that, and it sickens me. Alot of you have displayed so much arrogance in your “We have done this and WE have done that”, post’s that it serves no purpose other that to turn non catholic’s off about YOUR church. There is a HUGE difference between those of you who feel this way and the way I feel, and that difference is that I give ALL credit and GLORY to God and you give it to YOUR church. Make no mistake about it when I say that it was GOD who gave us HIS Bible and not a self rightous church. If God opposes the proud, and I believe he does, then he opposes many of you who feel this way.
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This statement seemed awefully full of pride, no?

Peace
 
How do you know which church is truly the church of Christ?

Simple, the same way the shepherds found Jesus in Bethlehem…with his mother.

in XT.
 
Because, as the Creed prays, the Church is: One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. If your church does not meet this definition, it is not the true Church. See catholic.com for more information.

Also, let’s remember that this includes more than the Roman Catholic Church (Latin Rite). We have our brothers in the East!
 
Only the Holy Spirit can tell you that the CC is indeed the TRUE Church! The Holy Spirit can also help you understand the Traditions, Magisterium, etc. in order to make you realize it’s the True Church! 😛
 
There is no one True Church. The Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church and the Protestant Churches who believe in the Holy Trinity are all True Churches. Churches who are False Churches are the cults who deny the Holy Trinity.
 
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NonDenom:
Hi
One thing that I have noticed from many of the post’s in this forum. Catholics have taken ownership of Christ’s “Universal” church, so much in fact that it seems that it is no longer HIS church. I’ve read so many times that it is the Catholic church that gave us this and that, this and that, and it sickens me. Alot of you have displayed so much arrogance in your “We have done this and WE have done that”, post’s that it serves no purpose other that to turn non catholic’s off about YOUR church. There is a HUGE difference between those of you who feel this way and the way I feel, and that difference is that I give ALL credit and GLORY to God and you give it to YOUR church. Make no mistake about it when I say that it was GOD who gave us HIS Bible and not a self rightous church. If God opposes the proud, and I believe he does, then he opposes many of you who feel this way.
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Wow. Are you intellectually dishonest or just down right self righteous? We appreciate the things given to us from the Church because the Church is Christ’s body and was founded by Christ. We love the Church because it is his bride. If you can’t see this than you are lost. Why is the Catholic Church the Universal Church? Because if was founded by Jesus. Study history. As Cardinal Henry Newman used to say, “to be steeped in history is to cease to be Protestant”. I found your post very selfrighteous and divisive. But I guess that is what you would expect from some one who is not in Christ’s Church but is a member of a branch off a branch, re-reformed, regurgitated version of Christianity. You do realize that when you attack the Catholic faith like you do, you attack the faith of the majority of Christian’s around the world; those who belong to the Apostolic Succession, i.e. Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox, those whose faith is sacramental and filled with the teachings of both Scripture and Tradition, those that honor the Glorious Mother of God, those who love Christ in the way he intended and didn’t invent this idea of “we can disagree on the ‘non-essentials’”. I am sorry my friend, your ‘Non-denom’ church was not the faith of the Apostles and the Martyrs. Your religion is nothing more than a modern invention that is based on emotions and not on the word of God or reason. You can have all the pride that you want about how you think you are “saved”, and you can presume on God’s grace all you want, but such is never to the salvation of anyone’s soul. The rest of us ‘papists’ will just continue to live the life of God’s merciful grace as humble members of His One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. “Agnus Dei quitollis pecata mundi, misere nobis. Agnus Dei quitollis pecat mundi, misere nobis. Agnus Dei quitollis pecata mundi, dona nobis pacem.”
 
Paris Blues:
Only the Holy Spirit can tell you that the CC is indeed the TRUE Church! The Holy Spirit can also help you understand the Traditions, Magisterium, etc. in order to make you realize it’s the True Church! 😛
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The word of God and reason can also do this. But the Holy Spirit is necessary for conversion. No one comes to Christ and His Church without our great God, the Holy Spirit.
 
Jimmy_B said:
[There were many changes made in the early Church (First Century AD) before the formation of the Bible and while the Apostles were still alive. Many of Saint Paul’s letters were written for clarification and redress to help and define the beliefs of the early Church. One can find instances in the Bible were the Church “changed”. The issue of Gentiles and circumcision is one example that comes to mind. Does that mean that the entire Bible is flawed or wrong? Can you please elaborate? Are you saying that Ecumenical councils are wrong? It was a **Catholic
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Ecumenical council that determined what writings constituted the Bible.

Hi

I think you have complicated the issue rather than to explain it away.

The changes made:
  1. in the early Church (First Century AD) before the formation of the Bible and while the Apostles were still alive
  2. Many of Saint Paul’s letters were written for clarification and redress to help and define the beliefs of the early Church
  3. One can find instances in the Bible w(h)ere the Church “changed
  4. The issue of Gentiles and circumcision is one example that comes to mind.
  5. Does that mean that the entire Bible is flawed or wrong? Can you please elaborate?
  6. Are you saying that Ecumenical councils are wrong?
  7. It was a Catholic Ecumenical council that determined what writings constituted the Bible
All the above points raised by you, which are no doubt very valid points, require of you to measure “the changes made” analytically from the time of Jesus/Peter. If the magnitude of change is materially high, then the “rock” has changed its colour or perhaps it is no more there; rather it has slid down.

Thanks
 
Hi

Just to referesh the thread and receive a reply from Jimmy B of my above post with regards.

Others also could reply, if possible.

Thanks
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi

Just to referesh the thread and receive a reply from Jimmy B of my above post with regards.

Others also could reply, if possible.

Thanks
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Hello paarsurrey, how are you?

Below is the entire post that you are referring to, I was answering a question:
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackstone
If you were to read an unbias history of Christianity you will find that the Catholic Chruch of the first four centurys is not the same catholic church we have today
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Hi blackstone and welcome to the Catholic Answer Forums and our discussions here. Thank you for your post. I don’t understand the point you are trying to make? Can you please provide some examples? Do you know what an Ecumenical Council is? There were many changes made in the early Church (First Century AD) before the formation of the Bible and while the Apostles were still alive. Many of Saint Paul’s letters were written for clarification and redress to help and define the beliefs of the early Church. One can find instances in the Bible were the Church “changed”. The issue of Gentiles and circumcision is one example that comes to mind. Does that mean that the entire Bible is flawed or wrong? Can you please elaborate? Are you saying that Ecumenical councils are wrong? It was a Catholic Ecumenical council that determined what writings constituted the Bible.
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I don’t quite understand your question. See if my statement, in question, now in context, helps you… I was answering a question.

By the way, are you reading to come Home to the Roman Catholic Church or do you need some more time?

God bless
 
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