How Do You Know Your Interpretation Is Correct?

[benedictus2]

Surrendering to Him, and following Him.

And how does that translate to easting Him “spiritually”. Jesus said ear, drink. Jesus my flesh, my blood.
{quote] Judas ate the Eucharist and still betrayed Him
And what has that got to do with anything? I am sure you sin all the time (which means you betray him).

the reality is the Eucharist is something we do in remembrance of Him,

Yes, that too, but much more than that. He said to eat His Body and drink His Blood. So read your gospels again.

because this is a sign of our covenant with Him, and participating in it, means we accept Him (not always though) ,

Exactly, exactly, exactly. To accept Him is to believe Him and follow what He commanded. And what is it exactly that He commanded? Eat My Body, Drink My Blood.

and He knows our hearts

Sure He does. And more than that He knows what we need and He knows that what we need is to eat His flesh and drink His blood that our hearts may be conformed to Him. As St Augustine said, so that we may be transformed into THAT which we receive.

He knows if we are just merely eating bread and wine, or really eating from Him. Eating from Him spiritually is what counts [/qutoe]
Sorry but you obviously have not read the Bible well enough. He DOES NOT KNOW THAT because THAT IS NOT WHAT HE SAID. Either you believe in Him ENOUGH to believe that He was speaking the truth or you don’t. There is no spiritualizing this command. He was very clear at the last supper and He was very adamant (hammering it in from verse 48-60) in John 6

The things of the spirit are symbolical? No. Understand it the spirit is more real than your flesh itself.

Go back to verse 48-61. Read, ponder and absorb what is being said there.

 

[benedictus2]

Ok so in theory if a wafer is “transsubstantiated” and you leave it on a cup for 5 years it won’t spoil?

The hosts at the Eucharistic Miracle in Sienna which happened in the 1300s remain intact till today. See the details here
therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/siena.html

I just said either you can’t explain well your believes or the belief itself is wrong,

Oh but we can. We can prove our belief extremely well. Not only that, God has granted us Eucharistic Miracles to prove it as well. Not that it needed any proof. These Miracles were given to those who doubted the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

You on the other hand struggle to explain what Jesus meant in John 6 and the last supper accounts.

and please don’t ever call me pope again. I do not claim I am infallible.

Why not? When you claim that what you believe is what is true (as opposed to what we believe) then you claim that you are your own Pope.

And if you say that you do not claim to be infallible, therefore everything that you have written above is possibly not true either. So therefore you don’t know that what you believe is true. Ponder that.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Seriously are you kidding me, read your bible PLEASE.

2 Corinthians 12:9
“But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me.”

His power is made PERFECT IN WEAKNESS.

Paul’s weakness… our weakness

We are told that we are “justified” by Christ’s blood (Romans 5:11), He has secured “eternal redemption” (Heb. 9:12), forgives us our “trespasses” (Matt.26:28). All of this through our Lord’s blood, or so the Bible tells us.

I know what you believe because you have told me. I have no desire to continue this discussion with you. I am curious as to how wide spread this position of yours is with in Protestantism. And, as I thought, not a single Protestant has stated they believe like you, that Christ’s flesh profited nothing

I had my suspicions that Lutherans and Anglicans would not support you, but I thought maybe, just maybe, some of the non-denominational Christian may… Nope.

God bless

 

[benedictus2]

How can a flesh give us Eternal Life?

I can’t believe you need to be told this.
The Eucharist is NOT A flesh. It is the THE FLESH OF JESUS CHRIST, GOD, LORD AND SAVIOUR, THE SECOND PERSON OF THE TRINITY, THROUGH WHOM AND FOR WHOM ALL THINGS WERE MADE.

I don’t know, but I trust in God,

Obviously not if you cannot even believe that Jesus meant exactly what He said.

He knows how, and that is the reason He is so great and awesome God, He has no barriers. He has no need in showing His majesty, He is so humble, being so mighty, Praise the Great God, Halleluyah!

Exactly, exactly, exactly! He is so great that He is able to give us His flesh in the form of bread. He is so humble that He condescends to give us Himself in form of bread and wine.

“My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”

Amen! And by His Body and Blood we are fed and made strong.

When St Augustne was having difficult with the doctrine of the Eucharist, he heard Christ say to Him

“Eat me, I am the bread of the strong.
But you will not transform Me and make Me part of you.
Rather I will transform you, and make you part of Me.”

 

[Araninski]

Hey tqualey, how are you doing?

Well my fellow Catholic brethren had the same question as you, if His flesh was weak then how ? Read the other posts please. BTW Christ did the sacrifice already, He already did it, no more sacrifices on His part. As He said when He was on the cross, “It is done”. If you could only understand that what He is offering us, is not physical flesh and blood. And yes you said it it is a hard saying. Words of Eternal life, suffering to Jesus.

If the Eucharist were the Word of Eternal life, only Christians who believe on transubstantiation ,would have eternal life. However your church doesn’t teach this. Because the way is Christ, not a physical wafer, thought to be the physical body and blood of Christ. So the Word of Eternal life is Christ, how to eat from Him? Eating a transsubstantiated wafer or following Him?

How do you explain Christians who don’t believe in transubstantiation and are in a state of grace, meaning they haven’t sin in years, and are preaching and winning souls as Jesus Christ commanded?

But hey! A Catholic which believes in transubstantiation and participates in perfect communion and sins every 2 weeks(not deliberately) for example, enjoys the fullness of Christ.

Not every Catholic is like this though, because there are Catholics who know that to follow Christ the must believe in Him, and live like Him.

Once again I will post it so that your eyes can open up an understand that:

“My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Don’t pay attention to logic, if Jesus flesh was weak does that mean it can’t save us? There is no barriers for God.

So yeah I don’t believe in transubstantiation and live in a state of grace (thanks God) , preach His word. I reflect the Love of God as best as I can. I try to help the poor and the crippled men. I have compassion for babies who need love, when no one can give them care. Tell me how it is that I am not eating and drinking from His blood and body. He knows my heart. He knows I do. As Sons of God don’t believe in what your eyes see, but believe in the Invisible, for He works inside us if we surrender and follow Him.

“If any person loves me, then he will obey my teaching. My Father will love that person. My Father and I will come to that person and** live with him**”

He already lives in me, see? And I eat no Eucharist. You can keep your transubstantiation belief if you don’t want to believe what the Word of God is saying, but please don’t say that in faithful Christians His blood and body is not in Him because you would make Him a liar.

The peace of Christ. In Jesus name, Amen.

 

[Araninski]

Originally Posted by Roman_Catholic

Paul’s weakness… our weakness

We are told that we are “justified” by Christ’s blood (Romans 5:11), He has secured “eternal redemption” (Heb. 9:12), forgives us our “trespasses” (Matt.26:28). All of this through our Lord’s blood, or so the Bible tells us.

I know what you believe because you have told me. I have no desire to continue this discussion with you. I am curious as to how wide spread this position of yours is with in Protestantism. And, as I thought, not a single Protestant has stated they believe like you, that Christ’s flesh profited nothing

I had my suspicions that Lutherans and Anglicans would not support you, but I thought maybe, just maybe, some of the non-denominational Christian may… Nope.

God bless

The verse says is made perfect in weakness. Not your weakness.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

The verse says is made perfect in weakness. Not your weakness.

Read the chapter, what is Paul talking about? His weakness

2 Cor. 12:5-12: On behalf of this man I will boast, but on my own behalf I will not boast, except of my weaknesses. 6 Though if I wish to boast, I shall not be a fool, for I shall be speaking the truth. But I refrain from it, so that no one may think more of me than he sees in me or hears from me. 7 And to keep me from being too elated by the abundance of revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan, to harass me, to keep me from being too elated. 8 Three times I besought the Lord about this, that it should leave me; 9 but he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” I will all the more gladly boast of my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities; for when I am weak, then I am strong. 11 I have been a fool! You forced me to it, for I ought to have been commended by you. For I was not at all inferior to these superlative apostles,* even though I am nothing**.

Paul is talking about his weakness.

God bless

 

[Araninski]

Originally Posted by benedictus2

The hosts at the Eucharistic Miracle in Sienna which happened in the 1300s remain intact till today. See the details here
therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/siena.html

Oh but we can. We can prove our belief extremely well. Not only that, God has granted us Eucharistic Miracles to prove it as well. Not that it needed any proof. These Miracles were given to those who doubted the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

You on the other hand struggle to explain what Jesus meant in John 6 and the last supper accounts.

Why not? When you claim that what you believe is what is true (as opposed to what we believe) then you claim that you are your own Pope.

And if you say that you do not claim to be infallible, therefore everything that you have written above is possibly not true either. So therefore you don’t know that what you believe is true. Ponder that.

Oh really how are you sure it is true? Did you lived on the 1300s?

Actually you are wrong, I might be wrong or I might correct. I don’t know if what I believe is true, but I am sure of something Jesus Christ paid my soul with His blood, and saved me, because He said whosoever believes and follows Me is saved. I am saved and I can see Him working in me (Thanks God) . He wants me with the weakness I have even if I am wrong. He knows I am not perfect, someday (God willing) in Heaven I will be perfect.

 

[benedictus2]

Hey tqualey, how are you doing?

Well my fellow Catholic brethren had the same question as you, if His flesh was weak then how ? Read the other posts please. BTW Christ did the sacrifice already, He already did it, no more sacrifices on His part.

Then what does Christ’s eternal priesthood mean as written in the Letter to the Hebrews?

A priest’s main function is to offer sacrifice.

As He said when He was on the cross, “It is done”.

What do you understand but this? What do you think is “done”. Actually the word is not done but “finished” or “consumed”.

If you could only understand that what He is offering us,

I am sure that Tom Qualey understands that more than you can ever know.

is not physical flesh and blood.

Sorry but Jesus was quite adamant about that point. He said those who do not eat His flesh will not have life in Him.

And yes you said it it is a hard saying. Words of Eternal life, suffering to Jesus. [/qote]
Wrong again. You really ought to re-read John 6. The hard saying that the Jews were referring to was not the suffering of Jesus. At that point Jesus was not talking about His suffering.

If the Eucharist were the Word of Eternal life,

It isn’t. Jesus has the Words of Eternal Life. But the words of eternal life that Peter spoke of is not Jesus, but it flows from Jesus.

only Christians who believe on transubstantiation ,would have eternal life.

Not so either. Even those who do not believe has a chance at salvation.
But even that chance is contingent on the Eucharist for all grace proceeds from this gift of God.

That’s all for me as my lunch hour is over.

 

[Araninski]

Originally Posted By benedictus2

And how does that translate to easting Him “spiritually”. Jesus said ear, drink. Jesus my flesh, my blood.
{quote] Judas ate the Eucharist and still betrayed Him

And what has that got to do with anything? I am sure you sin all the time (which means you betray him).

Quote:
the reality is the Eucharist is something we do in remembrance of Him,

Yes, that too, but much more than that. He said to eat His Body and drink His Blood. So read your gospels again.
Quote:
because this is a sign of our covenant with Him, and participating in it, means we accept Him (not always though) ,
Exactly, exactly, exactly. To accept Him is to believe Him and follow what He commanded. And what is it exactly that He commanded? Eat My Body, Drink My Blood.
Quote:
and He knows our hearts

Sure He does. And more than that He knows what we need and He knows that what we need is to eat His flesh and drink His blood that our hearts may be conformed to Him. As St Augustine said, so that we may be transformed into THAT which we receive.

He knows if we are just merely eating bread and wine, or really eating from Him. Eating from Him spiritually is what counts [/qutoe]
Sorry but you obviously have not read the Bible well enough. He DOES NOT KNOW THAT because THAT IS NOT WHAT HE SAID. Either you believe in Him ENOUGH to believe that He was speaking the truth or you don’t. There is no spiritualizing this command. He was very clear at the last supper and He was very adamant (hammering it in from verse 48-60) in John 6
Quote:
The things of the spirit are symbolical? No. Understand it the spirit is more real than your flesh itself.
Go back to verse 48-61. Read, ponder and absorb what is being said there.

Spiritual Food is the food which endures to Eternal Life. Flesh will not inherit the Kingdom of Heavens.
The Word does not spoil.

 

[Araninski]

LOL this is ironic, I am eating His flesh and blood but you can’t get it. Because eating from the Bread of Life is eating from the Eucharist, . This is a hard teaching to understand. By surrendering to Him, His blood cleanses me, by following Him, I am eating from His body.

This is my last post on this thread.

BTW There are no more sacrifices for sins left

Hebrews 10:26
“If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left”

We can only sacrifice adoration to our wonderful God.
Romans 12

Living Sacrifices
" 1Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual[a] act of worship. 2Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will."

Oh look this is your spiritual act of worship =), not a physical act

Stop living according to the patterns of this World.

Last Post on this thread.

God bless you!

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

LOL this is ironic, I am eating His flesh and blood but you can’t get it. Because eating from the Bread of Life is eating from the Eucharist, . This is a hard teaching to understand. By surrendering to Him, His blood cleanses me, by following Him, I am eating from His body.

I have a hard time understanding how Catholics are not “eating the flesh” in the manner that you think it means Are you suggesting that Catholics do not follow Christ? Are they not Christian in your eyes? If not, what is your reasoning for coming here?

BTW There are no more sacrifices for sins left

:yup: Yup because Christ’s body and blood was truly “profitable” (and still is) to us His once and for all sacrifice was all that was needed:

And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Heb. 10:10

Stop living according to the patterns of this World.

I have never heard of someone comparing the Eucharist to a pattern of this world.

God bless

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Araninski,

I am doing great, thank you! I just noticed you are a New Member - Welcome to CAF! Now, let’s see if I can share an idea or two with you…

Sorry to say, I got a bit wordy on this response … so, let me call this Page 1 of 2

Hey tqualey, how are you doing?

Well my fellow Catholic brethren had the same question as you, if His flesh was weak then how ? Read the other posts please.

I have read them, Araninski, and the issue is not a lack or reading, but a lack of agreement. But, let’s continue…

BTW Christ did the sacrifice already, He already did it, no more sacrifices on His part. As He said when He was on the cross, “It is done”.

What was actually done is the BLOODY death of our Savior on Calvary 2000 years ago. Today, we have the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and it is the UN-BLOODY offering of our Risen Lord to God the Father. Christ died once. Christ is offered to His Heavenly Father as a Perfect Offering every time the Mass is celebrated.

If you could only understand that what He is offering us, is not physical flesh and blood. And yes you said it it is a hard saying. Words of Eternal life, suffering to Jesus.

This is one of those areas where it is not a lack of reading - but - a lack of agreement - that is the key to my response. You see, there is this big difference between your understanding of John 6 and mine. So, I tell you what… use John 6 as a reading exercise - yes, read it all! And, then … see if you can summarize its contents in 100 words or less. Of course I am serious. You see the basic issue here is what I would honestly characterize as a lack of comprehension (this may sound a bit harsh, and I don’t intendt it that way - but, seriously, either there is understanding or there isn’t.) The ‘proof of this pudding’ lies in what I preceive as your willingness to take John 6: 24-71 as all metaphor, but John 6:63 as literal.

Now, from my study of Scripture, no where else does Christ go into the detail He uses with John 6. Over and over He repeats Himself using different words that convey the same meaning: He is giving Himself (Body, Blood, Human Soul and Divinity) to us as food. We realize that the Apostles did not have that understanding when Christ said these words - and maybe their understanding was a bit shakey at the Last Supper when Matthew, Mark and Luke all recorded that Christ said THIS IS MY BODY - EAT IT! It took on a growing sense of understanding after the Resurrection - and, then on Pentecost their understanding was made complete by the Holy Spirit.

I am confident that if you really try to summarize this - you will get a new understanding of John 6. You have nothing to lose … except some truly unscriptural ideas.

God bless

The peace of Christ. In Jesus name, Amen.

 

[Araninski]

Originally Posted by Roman_Catholic

I have a hard time understanding how Catholics are not “eating the flesh” in the manner that you think it means Are you suggesting that Catholics do not follow Christ? Are they not Christian in your eyes? If not, what is your reasoning for coming here?

I didn’t said this, I said: Eating the flesh is following Christ (truly), not eating from the Eucharist (which is just something physical, and the spiritual food which Christ gives us accounts for much more). Good Catholics follow Christ and without acknowledging it, they are eating from Him, because you think eating from Christ is eating from the Eucharist, you don’t see this.

Well now last post really on this thread FOR REAL (some posters are getting angry), I appreciate that you respect my beliefs, as well as I respect yours. The important thing is that we are both following Christ truly in a state of grace trying to be a reflect of Him on Earth, and our souls are secured as long as we continue in Christ.

God bless

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Araninski,

let me call this Page 2 of 2

How do you explain Christians who don’t believe in transubstantiation and are in a state of grace, meaning they haven’t sin in years, and are preaching and winning souls as Jesus Christ commanded?

We really have no proof of anyone being in the State of Grace. I can not validate the condition of anyone else’s soul. I pray for my own soul that it remain always a Friend of God. Check out Matthew 25 for some very surprised peope.

But hey! A Catholic which believes in transubstantiation and participates in perfect communion and sins every 2 weeks(not deliberately) for example, enjoys the fullness of Christ.

Not every Catholic is like this though, because there are Catholics who know that to follow Christ the must believe in Him, and live like Him.

Once again I will post it so that your eyes can open up an understand that:

“My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Don’t pay attention to logic, if Jesus flesh was weak does that mean it can’t save us? There is no barriers for God.

So yeah I don’t believe in transubstantiation and live in a state of grace (thanks God) , preach His word. I reflect the Love of God as best as I can. I try to help the poor and the crippled men. I have compassion for babies who need love, when no one can give them care. Tell me how it is that I am not eating and drinking from His blood and body. He knows my heart. He knows I do. As Sons of God don’t believe in what your eyes see, but believe in the Invisible, for He works inside us if we surrender and follow Him.

Remember, I told you God has the Power to work through anyone and anything so that His Divine Will is fulfilled. I can not tell you anything else. Now, when it comes to belief in the invisible - check this our: Christ is totally hidden under the appearance of bread and wine. We do not ‘see’ Christ with our physical eyes - but, we do ‘see’ Him with the eyes of Faith. This ‘appearance of bread’ aspect means that if a Consecrated Host is left out too long, mold will appear on the physical aspects of the Bread. The appearance of mold does not disprove the Real Presence.

“If any person loves me, then he will obey my teaching. My Father will love that person. My Father and I will come to that person and** live with him**”

He already lives in me, see? And I eat no Eucharist. You can keep your transubstantiation belief if you don’t want to believe what the Word of God is saying, but please don’t say that in faithful Christians His blood and body is not in Him because you would make Him a liar.

This is the section that convinced me that that 100 word summary of John 6 would really be of benefit! Honest. Recall that the Jews walked away from Christ because they simply refused to believe what Christ told them. Considering they had received a free supper the night before and were motivated to find Christ so they could get a free breakfast … and , now they are walking away from him hungry! This is a major change.

God bless

The peace of Christ. In Jesus name, Amen.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

I didn’t said this,

You did say this:

LOL this is ironic, I am eating His flesh and blood but you can’t get it.

With your understanding of “eating His flesh” being following Christ, I am curious as to how you know I, or any other Catholic for that matter, cannot “get it” (i.e. Christ’s flesh)?

Good Catholics follow Christ and without acknowledging it

Define good Catholic? Are they faithful to what the Catholic Church teaches?

God bless you

 

[schaick]

Hi, Schaick,

You know, complaining about being misunderstood on two major topics and then launching out into third makes precious little sense to me. If you want to be understood then you need to clarify the points that are not understood.

Several of us have given you multiple material verses from Scripture that the Eucharist is REAL - yet you cling to this “…the flesh profits nothing…” bit like Christ is saying, “Everything I previously told you I am not saying it isn’t true”. Nowhere did Christ say that His Flesh profits nothing - He just told us if we don’t eat It we will die. This is the way Christ has chosen for us to have both spiritual and physical nourishment.

Several of us have told you about the Risen Christ coming to the Apostles, breathing on them and telling them to receive the Holy Spirit and giving them the Power of God to forgive (or not forgive) the sins of men. This is the way Christ has chosen for us to be forgiven from sin.

May I suggest that instead of beginning a new topic, that you ‘go back’ and plow this ‘same field’ - not again using the same approach - but actually locking onto where the communications problems lie and then addressing them. Let me give you a suggestion: read all of John 6. Then summarize this chapter in 100 words or less so that the major message of this chapter is communicated. Then post your summary and we can discuss it.

God bless

The Eucharist is not the topic!!

Here is the original topic:

***For the Protestants on board, I have a few questions which I hope will be answered in a rational-logical manner.

1. How do you know when you are interpreting scripture correctly? Note that I did not ask what you may believe a particular passage to mean.
2. When people differ over scriptural interpretation, and all are relying on the Holy Spirit for guidance, how is it determined which person is really being guided? And equally important, who makes the authoritative determination? Let me offer a short example:

A Lutheran walks up to me with an opened Bible, and declares “Baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation”. He then points to various scriptural verses which seem to support his doctrinal position.

A Baptist walks up to me with an opened Bible, and declares “Baptism is not absolutely necessary for salvation.” He then points to various scriptural verses which seem to support his doctrinal position.

How is it determined which person is correct? And, who decides?

It seems to me that if God’s Truth for man is to be known solely from the Bible, then there must be some sort of mechanism or system whereby men can know this Truth with absolute certainty.***

Discussing the Eucharist was simply an example.

People do not understand that I DO NOT BELIEVE THE EUCHARIST IS SIMPLY SYMBOLIC. I have no arguement to support this application of the interpretation.

People are so hung up on trying to prove that they are right about the Eucharist that a discussion of the TOPIC isn’t taking place.

So… I go to another example to in fact clarify my points and I am accused of changing topics and complaining!?!

Once again I say that there is one interpretation with multiple applications.

LOL! Giving me suggestions!! LOL!! Here is a suggestion for you go back and read the entire thread.

 

[schaick]

Hi,

1Timothy 3: 15, if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to BEHAVE in the HOUSEHOLD of God, which is the CHURCH of the living God, THE PILLAR AND BULWARK OF TRUTH.

Ephesians 1: 22-23, and he has put all things under his feet and has made him the head over all things for the church, which is his body, the fulness of him who fills all in all.

Problem: Scripture says the Church is the standard of truth not the bible, much controversy here.

Undeniably schaick all the ecclesial cummunities, in one way or another have cut off most[not all], of their ties to the one true church.

I believe it was St.Agustine that said it as did St.Paul, if you cut your off finger does your soul go with the finger, of course not, it stays with the body.

Martin Luther said this>“Noblemen, townsmen, peasants, all classes understand the Evangelium better than I or St. Paul; they are now wise and think themselves more learned than all the ministers.” Walch XIV, 1360. quoted in O’Hare, Ibid, 209.

By this time Luther realized that he had opened the door to error and he was powerless to close it.He had released the genie and now found that the genie had grown too large to be forced back into the bottle.

Isn’t this what happened during the reformation? A whole lot of folks became their own interpreters and look at us now even agreeing on basics, becomes bothersome because of personal opinion.

God Bless

PS. Hope my ranting is not to bothersome.

NO! I am happy to see someone is actually understanding the topic.

What translation is that for 1Timothy 3: 15? It is actually helping me explain.

Yes the church is the bulwark of truth - It is to allow nothing added or subtracted from Scripture. It is the Guardian of Scripture.

bul·wark   
–noun

1. a wall of earth or other material built for defense; rampart.
2. any protection against external danger, injury, or annoyance: The new dam was a bulwark against future floods.
3. any person or thing giving strong support or encouragement in time of need, danger, or doubt: Religion was his bulwark.
4. Usually, bulwarks. Nautical . a solid wall enclosing the perimeter of a weather or main deck for the protection of persons or objects on deck.
   –verb (used with object)
5. to fortify or protect with a bulwark; secure by or as if by a fortification.

The Church is to make sure:

1 Corinthians 4
6Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another

That word BEHAVE in **1 Timothy 3:15 ** you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household. How you APPLY the one interpretation.

Yes and I think the idea of multiple interpretations is completely false. GOD is not a god of confusion. There is only one, there might be fuller, but never contradicting interpretations.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Araninski,

It looks like you are having some difficulty remaining focused here … so… let me help.

Oh really how are you sure it is true? Did you lived on the 1300s?

Actually you are wrong, I might be wrong or I might correct.

This sounds like you are really stressed here … I don’t know about you, but I was not around in 1066 when the Battle of Hastings took place - but, I believe it happened. I have actually been to Battle, England (where the battle took place!) and saw the museum and all of the things they had there and was impressed. I confess, I never thought that this was all a fake and people just made these things up and created a bit toursit trap… no… never did think of that!

Your statement sounds more like: “I don’t know if I am right or wrong - but you are wrong!” Seriously, this does not demonstrate any willingness to have an open heart or mind. And, this rather generally negative statement is in response to giving you scriptural quotes, with context and clearly written.

You would not have any trouble if the risen Christ had told the Apostles on the beach, “Take and eat this is cooked fish” (John 21:12). Here is God acting like a cook - and that is OK - but, let Him act like God and do something that we can not wrap our finite minds around - we divide into two groups! There are those, like the Jews who complained about this being a “…hard saying…” another way of saying, “…this is crazy…” and walked out on Him, and those like Peter who certainly did not understand but said, “You have the words of eternal life.” So, guess which group believes Christ? follows Christ? will be received by Christ on the last day?

You are certainly welcomed to stay where you are, believe what you will and move in any direction you choose. The issue, however, is just what does Christ say throughout the NT. Not that you would ‘cherry-pick’ items and present out-of-context verses to support any idea that seems pleasing… Rather, what does the Total Message of Salvation from Christ say - and - it isn’t “Just believe and you are saved”! Remember the group that tried that and were severely criticized by God Who said, “Not everyone who says ‘Lord, Lord…’ is going to heaven!!!” I guess one could say that these people believed - but obviously they did not have enough belief - or enough desire to work with the Grace of God - to change their behavior or their hearts.

I don’t know if what I believe is true, but I am sure of something Jesus Christ paid my soul with His blood, and saved me, because He said whosoever believes and follows Me is saved. I am saved and I can see Him working in me (Thanks God) . He wants me with the weakness I have even if I am wrong. He knows I am not perfect, someday (God willing) in Heaven I will be perfect.

This too needs to be put in context, Araninski. Honest. Jesus Christ willingly died for the salvation of every human soul - past, present and future. His sacrifice opened the Gates of Heaven to all - no one individual or group or race was excluded from His Redemptive Act. The issue is not: “Is the Gate open?” Rather, the issue is: “Will you work with the Grace of God to walk through it?” There will come a time when there will be a Last Day - no more days after this one (at least as we have known them) and that Gate will close. On which side of the Gate do you want to be? OK. Now, how can you reject some words - like those Christ gives in John 6, that are spoken by Him at the Last Supper and recorded by Matthew, Mark and Luke, and through private revelation as given in 1Cor 11 to St. Paul (who was not at the Last Supper).

You are quite right to claim that belief is essential. But, this is only part of the picture. A painter may say that paint is essential, but, he also needs burshes, and a canvas and hands that can hold the bursh and do what his mind tells it to do - if he is to have a complete picture. Paint, by itself, is just paint. You must do something with the paint if anything is to happen.

God bless

 

[Araninski]

Originally Posted by **Roman_Catholic
**
You did say this:

With your understanding of “eating His flesh” being following Christ, I am curious as to how you know I, or any other Catholic for that matter, cannot “get it” (i.e. Christ’s flesh)?

Define good Catholic? Are they faithful to what the Catholic Church teaches?

God bless you

Ok if you interpret I said that, read this: Good Catholics do follow Christ, they do eat His flesh, just that some Catholics don’t acknowledge that following Him is eating of the Bread of Life, that doesn’t mean the don’t eat Him just that they don’t realize it, because eating an Eucharist is the only way of eating of the Bread of Life, this is one of the problems of this teaching, it blinds completely the concept of following Christ and eating from Him. When Jesus referred this as to being a hard teaching He said it because they didn’t understand what He was saying, the first thing the Jews thought was "oh! eating from His body and blood?. That is what catholics think. He meant spiritually eating from Him. And Catholics do eat from Him spiritually, just that you think eating from Him is to be a physical act.

Yes they are faithful to the CC. Following Christ is not eating a consecrated wafer, is far more than that, a bad interpretation of what Jesus said and you end up like the Jews understanding everything as heard, all the words He speak are Spirit. And still God said that man couldn’t eat from its same life.