How Do You Know Your Interpretation Is Correct?

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ncgolf said:
Look for the four marks … one, holy, catholic and apostolic. I believe, by faith, Jesus created the Church with these marks.
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How do you know these four marks are the right ones.

You don’t need to answer this. I just say this to illustrate the point that every Christian faces the same issues, not just those with ‘P’ on the sign of the door.
 
ncgolf said:
Let me ask … are you absolutely sure that your church speaks sure about how all matters on faith and morals? I wonder how a group not under the protection that Apostolic succession brings are sure about the ramifications of let’s say in-vitro fertilization. Though the Bible does not speak explicitly about in-vitro; is there a truth that exists on whether that scientific discovery is something that should or should not continue.
This is the absolute and complete protection promised by Jesus. That to me is putting your faith to the test. If Jesus does not protect His church … then we are truly on our own.
It does seem to logically follow. At minimum I would think a church should at least claim infalliability. If one cannot say they speak with the same authority Jesus had then what parts do I trust and what parts don’t I trust.
I don’t think this is the issue. I have not read nor do I think there exists an official document on the Prodigal Son parable. I am not bound to only understand this parable a single way. The Church does not seek to interpret based on individual verse. The whole of the Deposit of Faith (of which Scripture is part) is used to create dogmatic statements. The real question is can the Church use the full Deposit of Faith to create dogmatic statements that are binding regarding such things that are fairly explicit in the text (Eucharist) and items that are not mentioned at all (in-vitro fertilization) and do this without error (meaning this interpretation will conflict with any portion of Scripture). The answer “Yes”. Many books are given a Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur signifying consistency with Catholic teaching. You should be able to look at the publishing information towards the front of the book and look for those words. If you see these you can be confident.
But what it has mined is without error, though it is quite likely a full understanding of all the Deposit of Faith has not been achieved. This does not nullify what it has found nor will it make anything stated 100 years from now inconsistent with something stated today or 2000 years ago. It is the same voice 2000 years ago that speaks and will speak 2000 years from now. You will not see any contradictions … ever. There may be discussion on Scripture but not of already written dogmatic statements. This may be true but what particular issue would this cause. Is one creating or changing existing dogma? What for instance are you referring to?
How do you wrestle or come to understand how the Canon speaks on these seemingly tough ethical dilemmas we find ourselves?
We stand on the promises of Christ made to protect his Church.
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Hey NcGolf,
Not dodging your specific questions, but my point was that we all do some basic level of interpretation that cannot be supported by a specific appeal to the authority of the Church. I am not talking about contradictions. I was only saying that ALL of us (Catholic and Non Catholic) have interpretations that are not specifically supported by dogmatic assertions by our churches. I do agree that there is an overarching Christian narrative in Scripture that all interpretation has to conform to.

But again, my point was that there is not 100% certainty on all scriptural interpretation even among Catholics.

I know that you guys get a lot of comfort from the belief in an infallible church. And you are correct that Protestants do not have that base level of assurance. We accept the possibility of error as we live and work thru the Truth revealed in Holy Scripture. I have always viewed the “Guiding in all Truth by the Holy Spirit” to mean that there is Truth and that God will lead us to it, just not error free on the way. I think the Councils of the Early Church illustrate that guidance.

Jeff
 
ncgolf said:
.There are many hence this forum. What piece of Scripture gives you this assurance? What assurance did a Christian have in the Year 128, 200 years before the Canon.What is the something else? This something else should be Scriptual … meaning it should be found in the Bible.
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Hey again Ncgolf,
Your last sentence cracked me up. That sounds just like a Protestant. 😉 (No offence intended)
If I understand you right, if you have no way to use an appeal to Church Authority as a way to justify an interpretation you should use Scripture to interpret Scripture. Is that what you are saying?

Jeff
 
Tocra said:
Justamoose,

1 Corinthians 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no-one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.

Tongue speaking only edifies the speaker. Unless someone interprets that mystery, those standing nearby will not understand what he/she is saying. That is why the prophesying tongue (ie one that is translated through an interpretor) is better for the congregation.

This is what the above verse mean. It does not rule out the practicality of speaking in tongues for those who have the Holy Spirit.

Do not console yourself with deceptive reasonings that conveniently put you out of participation in the grace of God.

Secondly, I have showed you HOW the apostles baptized. Not how you want to baptize. If one is to be of the apostles, then the mode of baptism must be identical. IN THE NAME OF JESUS.

NOT just in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost…or in the name of this and that…BUT WHAT IS THAT NAME ?

Acts 2:38 “Repent,” Peter said to them, "and be baptized, each of you, in the name of Jesus the Messiah for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip, as he proclaimed the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

Acts 8:16 For He had not yet come down on any of them; they had only been baptized in the name of Jesus.

Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay for a few days.

Acts 19:5
On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of Jesus.

The KEY is Jesus. Stop going round and round in circles without acknowledging the cornerstone. THAT would be Sin. How have you blasphemed the Spirit? By claiming that you or anyone else have The Spirit of God and then going around performing works that The Spirit Himself would never condone.
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"Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Matthew 28:18-20. It clearly says here that JESUS says to baptize in the name of the FATHER, the SON, and the HOLY SPIRIT. JESUS said that.

You say that we pretend to have the Spirit of God? "Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” Matthew 16:17-19. Jesus promised that the Church built on Peter would NOT fall to the gates of Hades. JESUS promised that we would always have the Spirit.

My friend, it seems to be like you are the one blaspheming the Spirit. You see the works of the Spirit working in the Catholic Church, and you call it false. Also, let it be known that the Catholic Church recognizes the Holy Spirit working in ALL Christians. We can see the Spirit working through Protestants as well.

As for your comment about “pedophilia”…the Church does NOT approve of it and has NEVER approved of it.

As for your comment about speaking in tongues: I am well aware that the verse has that meaning, as I come from a Charismatic Catholic Church. But also know this: Scripture never has just one meaning. Scripture reveals new things. That verse I gave you also revealed how not ALL were given the gift of tongues. Tongues is wonderful, it really is, I know. But when reading Scripture we ALWAYS have to remember the purpose and the context in which it was written. The purpose of the letter to the Corinthians was to SCOLD the Corinthians for doing exactly what you’re doing: holding tongues in too high an esteem. Paul is telling them that tongues is the LEAST of things they should be seeking! If you don’t believe me, go read 1 Corinthians as if it were a letter (which it was intended to be). It will soon become obvious.
 
JonNC,

After reading your posts on this thread, and your posts on some other threads, I have come to this conclusion: You are my favourite Lutheran 😃
 
justamoose89 said:
"Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Matthew 28:18-20. It clearly says here that JESUS says to baptize in the name of the FATHER, the SON, and the HOLY SPIRIT. JESUS said that.
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— And WHAT is that name ???

Acts 4: 8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: “Rulers and elders of the people! 9If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a cripple and are asked how he was healed, 10then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 11He is " 'the stone you builders rejected, which has become the capstone.12Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”
You say that we pretend to have the Spirit of God? "Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” Matthew 16:17-19. Jesus promised that the Church built on Peter would NOT fall to the gates of Hades. JESUS promised that we would always have the Spirit.
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— Indeed the promise was given to Peter who received the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost as Jesus had promised! And as evidenced by the of the spirit on that same day. What similar manifestations or character do you profess to have to claim yourself to have received that same promise? Save for your own claims & ‘traditions’ ??? I have to be frank on this…there’s nothing. I cannot go up to a man and say I am his grandson and have a right to his possessions because his dead son was the promised heir, but yet I am not of the same color as he is.
My friend, it seems to be like you are the one blaspheming the Spirit. You see the works of the Spirit working in the Catholic Church, and you call it false. Also, let it be known that the Catholic Church recognizes the Holy Spirit working in ALL Christians. We can see the Spirit working through Protestants as well.
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Well, the muslims also think everyone is muslim! But is that true? Of course not. You see the Spirit working through the protestants and yet also claim them to be of a different spirit because of their myriad of denominations? How can the same spirit be the cause of different interpretations of scripture??? Will not the camp of God be against themselves? Do not speak to facilitate your argument without regard to basic sensibility.
As for your comment about “pedophilia”…the Church does NOT approve of it and has NEVER approved of it.
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NEVER approved of it? Ever heard of silent approval? How long did it take for the priests to be taken to task? Years? Decades? Mind you, even the secular law does not take more than a few months to throw a rapist into jail. And you profess to be heralders of truth?
As for your comment about speaking in tongues: I am well aware that the verse has that meaning, as I come from a Charismatic Catholic Church. But also know this: Scripture never has just one meaning. Scripture reveals new things. That verse I gave you also revealed how not ALL were given the gift of tongues. Tongues is wonderful, it really is, I know. But when reading Scripture we ALWAYS have to remember the purpose and the context in which it was written. The purpose of the letter to the Corinthians was to SCOLD the Corinthians for doing exactly what you’re doing: holding tongues in too high an esteem. Paul is telling them that tongues is the LEAST of things they should be seeking! If you don’t believe me, go read 1 Corinthians as if it were a letter (which it was intended to be). It will soon become obvious.
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Then you have totally missed the point of the book. That letter was made in comparison between 2 types of tongue speaking. The prophesying tongue is indeed preferred to regular tongue. But that does not mean tongue speaking is of no value because ALL who have the spirit is able to speak in tongues. The Bible says that the man who speaks in tongues, speaks to God. Now, if you cannot speak in tongues who are you speaking to?
 
Tocra said:
John 9: 41 Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains."
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Clearly all of these Scriptures that you quote are already in my Bible.
 
Tocra said:
I don’t know which sacred scripture you are referring to. But I find it sad that you have nothing else but to rely on man-made traditions.

For Christians, the Bible says this : John 14:26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

A Christian, a follower of the Shepherd does not need to rely on something as vague as tradition. He/She gets direct guidance from the Holy Spirit.

John 4:22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. - (Not the physical Jew, but the spiritual jew - Romans 2: 29 No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God.)
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**Why we have Tradition and what is **
 
Tocra said:
Does not the spirit teach me on what I should say. Yet it is not me who speaks.

Luke 12:12 for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what you should say."
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So now you’re comparing yourself with the Apostles??
 
Tocra said:
Does not the spirit teach me on what I should say. Yet it is not me who speaks.

Luke 12:12 for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what you should say."
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well finally! you admit you are under the control of a spirit. i think its obvious, it is not the Holy Spirit. comes from the other side i should think. you really need help. perhaps talking to a priest? for the fruits of the Spirit are love, joy, peace, patience kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, self control. you display none of these fruits. your fruits are pride, arrogance, harshness, impatience, no self control, and certainly no goodness towards those of the Catholic fath or others. and joy? not happening. if you will not see a priest, at least go talk to a psychologist. it really appears you are seriously unbalanced.
 
Tocra said:
It is good that you are able to see the wisdom in those verses. Next you must learn to apply them to yourself.

Otherwise, cannot even Satan quote Scripture? But to whose benefit?

.
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yes, and you are very good at it…:whistle: i do love our talks mosacked. i think i like the name from your first incarnation the best. 😃
 
AmateurPianist said:
How do you know these four marks are the right ones.

You don’t need to answer this. I just say this to illustrate the point that every Christian faces the same issues, not just those with ‘P’ on the sign of the door.
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Your question is the same one faced by Jews in Jesus’s time. How did they know whether to follow this new Way or stick to what they already had? How did they come to trust that Jesus was indeed the fulfillment of the OT Scriptures?

We know by looking back there was a correct answer but what we don’t see was is the angst many of these people must of had in making this decision.

I do agree with you though it is a question every person must answer.
 
AlaricTeudisson said:
Hey again Ncgolf,
Your last sentence cracked me up. That sounds just like a Protestant. 😉 (No offence intended)
If I understand you right, if you have no way to use an appeal to Church Authority as a way to justify an interpretation you should use Scripture to interpret Scripture. Is that what you are saying?

Jeff
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What I did write does seem confusing:blush:

I can interpret on my own … I can read a Psalm and understand and apply it to my life as I see fit without appeal to a Church Authority. No different from a Protestant but there are truths taught by the Church which are not open to my interpreting differently by me.

For example, the dogma of the Immaculate Conception. I cannot appeal to authority to have it changed because I think it’s incorrect.

I am given great latitude in the application of Scripture in my life but I also take great comfort in knowing I do not have interpret all. I can trust in the teaching authority of the Church for many things that those truths taught by Christ are the same ones taught today. Some see this as restrictive but I don’t at all … I find it more liberating not less.
 
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