How Do You Know Your Interpretation Is Correct?

[ncgolf]

Hey NcGolf,
Not dodging your specific questions, but my point was that we all do some basic level of interpretation that cannot be supported by a specific appeal to the authority of the Church. I am not talking about contradictions. I was only saying that ALL of us (Catholic and Non Catholic) have interpretations that are not specifically supported by dogmatic assertions by our churches. I do agree that there is an overarching Christian narrative in Scripture that all interpretation has to conform to.

But again, my point was that there is not 100% certainty on all scriptural interpretation even among Catholics.

I dont see this as a problem. If my personal interpretation of something contradicts a dogmatic truth taught by the Church … how can an appeal change anything.

I know that you guys get a lot of comfort from the belief in an infallible church. And you are correct that Protestants do not have that base level of assurance. We accept the possibility of error as we live and work thru the Truth revealed in Holy Scripture. I have always viewed the “Guiding in all Truth by the Holy Spirit” to mean that there is Truth and that God will lead us to it, just not error free on the way. I think the Councils of the Early Church illustrate that guidance.

Jeff

While I see your point … though I dont really think you believe it. We as a people dont accept error lightly especially if that level of error is unquantified. What level of error is acceptable to you? If we could find a doctor who would never give a wrong diagnosis … we would be all over it.

I see your comments in light of an old story about a man trapped on his roof during a flood waiting for God to save him. Along come a boat and a helicopter but the man waits for God to save him … the man drowns and the man asks God why He never saved him. God says didnt you see the boat and helicopter I sent you.

You see in Scripture Peter in a boat many times … the last being when Jesus cooks fish for the disciples on the shore. Peter in a boat is an icon of the Church … this is Jesus telling us he has sent us a boat … all we gotta do is get on.

 

[justamoose89]

— And WHAT is that name ???

Acts 4: 8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: “Rulers and elders of the people! 9If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a cripple and are asked how he was healed, 10then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 11He is " 'the stone you builders rejected, which has become the capstone.12Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”

— Indeed the promise was given to Peter who received the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost as Jesus had promised! And as evidenced by the of the spirit on that same day. What similar manifestations or character do you profess to have to claim yourself to have received that same promise? Save for your own claims & ‘traditions’ ??? I have to be frank on this…there’s nothing. I cannot go up to a man and say I am his grandson and have a right to his possessions because his dead son was the promised heir, but yet I am not of the same color as he is.

Well, the muslims also think everyone is muslim! But is that true? Of course not. You see the Spirit working through the protestants and yet also claim them to be of a different spirit because of their myriad of denominations? How can the same spirit be the cause of different interpretations of scripture??? Will not the camp of God be against themselves? Do not speak to facilitate your argument without regard to basic sensibility.

NEVER approved of it? Ever heard of silent approval? How long did it take for the priests to be taken to task? Years? Decades? Mind you, even the secular law does not take more than a few months to throw a rapist into jail. And you profess to be heralders of truth?

Then you have totally missed the point of the book. That letter was made in comparison between 2 types of tongue speaking. The prophesying tongue is indeed preferred to regular tongue. But that does not mean tongue speaking is of no value because ALL who have the spirit is able to speak in tongues. The Bible says that the man who speaks in tongues, speaks to God. Now, if you cannot speak in tongues who are you speaking to?

Oh goodness. You have no idea what you’re talking about, nor do you have any idea what I’M talking about! You’re giving me scripture proving that we are saved by Jesus Christ. On that point I have never disagreed. I agree that through Christ we are saved. I only disagreed with you on the issue of baptism. Acts 4:8 which you quoted does indeed state that we are saved through Christ, and that is what Catholics believe too. But we also listen to Christ when He says to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. You’ve been giving me the same scripture verses over and over again, and I’m not disagreeing with those verses, because I believe and know my Bible too. But you are taking them out of context and using them in ways they are not supposed to be used!

I have this question for you, and please ANSWER the question instead of going round and round with scripture taken out of context: If you believe that one CANNOT baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, what do you make of Matthew 28:19? Was Jesus lying? Or do you just ignore that verse?

Let me give you a little history lesson, since it seems you have NO idea how the Catholic Church began, and you have NO idea what I’m talking about or where I’m coming from. YES, on Pentecost the apostles received the Holy Spirit. On that day, as you have said. I do not disagree. That day that the Apostles received the HS was the first day of Christ’s true Church. I’m sure on this we can agree. Something I’m sure you don’t know is that THAT DAY is the beginning of the Catholic Church, although back then it wasn’t called so. It wasn’t called “Christianity”, or “Pentecostal” either. They were just plain Jews who knew of the Messiah. As time passed, this group of Jews who found the messiah started becoming bigger, and they started spreading the stories of Jesus to all. There was no Bible yet. All these stories that were spread is called Tradition. Later, much of it was written down, and about 300 years AFTER Jesus died, that same Church that started at Pentecost, got together in a council and put those writings together in what we know now today as the Bible. The Bible comes from Tradition. There was no “protestant” back then. By the time the Bible was put together, that same Church that started at Pentecost started being known as the “catholic” church. And the Church has continued ever since, with some splits coming out in the 1100’s and the 1500’s. But before then, EVERYONE was considered “catholic”.

I never said that Protestants have a different Spirit. We have the same Spirit. You got it right when you said, “How can the same spirit be the cause of different interpretations of scripture??? Will not the camp of God be against themselves?” That is exactly the point of this note. Man was not meant to interpret Scripture on his own. The Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth. I’m sure you’re read that in your Bible. Because there are so many disagreements with the interpretation of Scripture, we are supposed to turn to the Church for guidance. Thats what the Bible tells us.

(cont)

 

[justamoose89]

(cont from above)

Dude, I have to say, bringing up pedophilia was a low blow. OF COURSE the Church doesn’t approve! And “silent approval”?? Please use common sense! We are ALL sinners, no matter what. Even Protestant preachers. That comment is not in a sincere search for the Truth. That comes from a hate of the Catholic Church. Yes this pedophile thing is horrible. But the Church is doing everything we can in order to stop it.

As for 1 Corinthians: You didn’t read the whole letter, I see. Maybe chapters 12-14. Read the whole letter as it was intended. Read it aloud. Back then when the people of Corinth received the letter from Paul, it would have been read aloud to the people. Read it to someone, and then come back and tell me that the whole letter is an explanation about tongues. The letter is a scolding from Paul because they were using tongues in a way they were not supposed to be using it. They were using it as “proof” as you do. Also note I never said tongues was of no value. I do know the value of tongues. But it should not be held in as high esteem as you are holding it. And after reading ALL of 1 Corinthians, you will see that Paul agrees with me.

 

[benidict]

(cont from above)

Dude, I have to say, bringing up pedophilia was a low blow. OF COURSE the Church doesn’t approve! And “silent approval”?? Please use common sense! We are ALL sinners, no matter what. Even Protestant preachers. That comment is not in a sincere search for the Truth. That comes from a hate of the Catholic Church. Yes this pedophile thing is horrible. But the Church is doing everything we can in order to stop it.

As for 1 Corinthians: You didn’t read the whole letter, I see. Maybe chapters 12-14. Read the whole letter as it was intended. Read it aloud. Back then when the people of Corinth received the letter from Paul, it would have been read aloud to the people. Read it to someone, and then come back and tell me that the whole letter is an explanation about tongues. The letter is a scolding from Paul because they were using tongues in a way they were not supposed to be using it. They were using it as “proof” as you do. Also note I never said tongues was of no value. I do know the value of tongues. But it should not be held in as high esteem as you are holding it. And after reading ALL of 1 Corinthians, you will see that Paul agrees with me.

trust me my friend. if im familiar with this person, (and i am) hes only going to get worse. there is no reasoning with him. he only comes on here to bash Catholics and Muslims. and he has made far worse comments than what he has on this thread. the only reason i respond to him, is to defend my fellow Catholics, and my Muslim friends, from his viscious verbal assaults. i dont care what he says to me. im not easy to offend. but i do find his responses to my brothers and sisters to be very ugly, and combative. Peace

 

[justamoose89]

trust me my friend. if im familiar with this person, (and i am) hes only going to get worse. there is no reasoning with him. he only comes on here to bash Catholics and Muslims. and he has made far worse comments than what he has on this thread. the only reason i respond to him, is to defend my fellow Catholics, and my Muslim friends, from his viscious verbal assaults. i dont care what he says to me. im not easy to offend. but i do find his responses to my brothers and sisters to be very ugly, and combative. Peace

Haa thanks All I can do is pray for him. And for others who think in this way.

 

[benidict]

Haa thanks All I can do is pray for him. And for others who think in this way.

very true. and please pray very hard. im hoping for a miracle in his case, so that he will convert. thankfully, protestants like him, are in the minority. i wonder if he belongs to w.b.c. i feel bad for those people too. especially the young people. they actually are very good singers with some serious talent. Peace

 

[JonNC]

=Tocra;6746584]

• Accomodating sin (eg. pedophilia - (regardless of whether they be commoners/members/priests/bishops/popes etc)

Tocra,
I just find this comment outside the realm of Christian charity and good dialogue. The Catholic Church is not by any means the only communion that deals with this kind of sinful behavior. It is a reflection on sinful human beings, not a communion of believers as a whole.

Jon

 

[benidict]

Does not the spirit teach me on what I should say. Yet it is not me who speaks.

Luke 12:12 for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what you should say."

oh yes, this verse is for when you are taken prisoner, for the sake of the Gospel, and dragged before the magistrate. you really do not know how to rightly divide my friend. do you? i would suggest a good rcia course, followed by intensive bible study with a Priest. this would help you tremendously.

 

[Tocra]

oh yes, this verse is for when you are taken prisoner, for the sake of the Gospel, and dragged before the magistrate. you really do not know how to rightly divide my friend. do you? i would suggest a good rcia course, followed by intensive bible study with a Priest. this would help you tremendously.

I am not your friend. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

 

[justamoose89]

I am not your friend. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Why are you even on here? Its obviously not to learn about Catholics. And by your unfriendly attitude I would have to assume that it isn’t to convert anyone either. Most people I’ve met trying to convert people here do it out of a genuine and sincere love for God’s people. Just an fyi, I believe it is against the board rules to come here to send hate messages as your message does.

Still, I will pray for you

 

[benidict]

I am not your friend. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

yes you are! you are my friend! i do not consider you a brother yet, because you do not embrace the faith. but i have faith, that you will. here is the difference between us tocra, mosacked, pa west.(and i have figured out how you get your names) i can honestly say i am concerned for your soul and love you in Christ. can you say the same? and you know you enjoy your conversations with me. i make your day.

 

[Tocra]

yes you are! you are my friend! i do not consider you a brother yet, because you do not embrace the faith. but i have faith, that you will. here is the difference between us tocra, mosacked, pa west.(and i have figured out how you get your names) i can honestly say i am concerned for your soul and love you in Christ. can you say the same? and you know you enjoy your conversations with me. i make your day.

Job 5:3 I myself have seen a fool taking root, but suddenly his house was cursed.

.

 

[Tocra]

Tocra, I will cut the story short for you.

Get this loud and clear. The Catholic Church WAS before the the Bible ever Was.

There was only Tradition before the Bible. The Bible is in a way a codification of Tradition.

Show me where in the Bible it says that Jesus sat down and started writing the NT. Or maybe He hired a scribe to follow Him around and take dictation ? Or even, show me somewhere in the Bible where He told his apostle, here write this bit down and make sure it becomes part of the Bible.

You obviously have got no idea how the Bible came about.

benedictus2,

If you have any idea how the Bible came about, you wouldn’t be relying on Tradition now today, would you?

You’d be following the author of the Bible.

Let the man who speaks, speak from true knowledge, not what drives him to advocate the agenda of the devil and causing confusion & strife.

If man is credited for doing God’s work, should you then today be following Judas Iscariot for helping Jesus to be crucified on the cross??? Benedictus2…you suffer the same ignorance as your fathers.
.

 

[benidict]

Job 5:3 I myself have seen a fool taking root, but suddenly his house was cursed.

.

i could possibly based on the names you have picked in your last two incarnations, give you a general demographic area where you reside… but i wont also its not very nice to speak this way about yourself mosacked. not at all.

 

[benidict]

benedictus2,

If you have any idea how the Bible came about, you wouldn’t be relying on Tradition now today, would you?

You’d be following the author of the Bible.

Let the man who speaks, speak from true knowledge, not what drives him to advocate the agenda of the devil and causing confusion & strife.

If man is credited for doing God’s work, should you then today be following Judas Iscariot for helping Jesus to be crucified on the cross??? Benedictus2…you suffer the same ignorance as your fathers.
.

it is because of comments like this my FRIEND, that you and i have these little conversations. and honestly, your analogies need some serious work. they dont make much sense…now as you were saying?

 

[benidict]

ya know folks, the interesting thing is, i actually like this guy. i understand his anger. i used to be angry like this too. i suggest we all lift him up in prayer, that God give him a new heart. full of love for Jesus, and for the Household of Faith. lets return blessings for cursings. i believe we can see a mighty intercession of Christ, right here on CAF. let us pray that the Blessed Mother and our patrons, intercede on behalf of tocra. that he can come to knowlege of the Gospel, and not the gospel of hate he is so used to. Peace

 

[Tocra]

…and honestly, your analogies need some serious work. they dont make much sense…now as you were saying?

John 8: 47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

• Our conversation on your mindless views ends here.

 

[benidict]

John 8: 47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

• Our conversation on your mindless views ends here.

are you finally giving up my friend?

 

[Michael_Francis]

***Closed for clean up on aisle 7.

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[shaky]

For the Protestants on board, I have a few questions which I hope will be answered in a rational-logical manner.

1. How do you know when you are interpreting scripture correctly? Note that I did not ask what you may believe a particular passage to mean.
2. When people differ over scriptural interpretation, and all are relying on the Holy Spirit for guidance, how is it determined which person is really being guided? And equally important, who makes the authoritative determination? Let me offer a short example:

A Lutheran walks up to me with an opened Bible, and declares “Baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation”. He then points to various scriptural verses which seem to support his doctrinal position.

A Baptist walks up to me with an opened Bible, and declares “Baptism is not absolutely necessary for salvation.” He then points to various scriptural verses which seem to support his doctrinal position.

How is it determined which person is correct? And, who decides?

It seems to me that if God’s Truth for man is to be known solely from the Bible, then there must be some sort of mechanism or system whereby men can know this Truth with absolute certainty.

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