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puzzleannie
Guest
no one admits this except those openly defiant of papal authority.
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wcknight
Guest
I love both versions of the mass, and fully participate no matter which is there. Both are equally representative of the Last Supper and neither is inferior to the other. It’s like asking which do you love more the innocent baby Jesus or the Jesus who suffered and died for us. Both are equally worthy of our love and devotion.
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ProVobis
Guest
I’ve posted this elsewhere but I really believe doing this is trying to make a statement. The church whether you just drop in for prayer or attend a Mass there is the House of God and not an arena for politics. We know it’s not for moneychanging.
Hey, I’m all for the TLM and are growingly much more comfortable with it, but respect to the Lord comes first.
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IrishAm
Guest
A lovely response.
Anytime I am going to receive my Lord in communion is a blessed moment and, regardless of the style or the ritual, I am privileged to attend and participate with my whole heart, mind and soul.
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mercygate
Guest
I can’t answer this as the question is posed.
I attend both the Ordinary and the Extraordinary Forms of the Mass. I do not engage in “private” prayer during the EF because I read along and silently pray all the responses, and follow the Mass intently – at least as closely I can, since the silent canon makes that somewhat difficult.
Although I may roll my eyeballs at the sometimes execrable music at the OF Mass I attend, it is otherwise completely respectable, and I participate fully. Indulging in private devotions strikes me as incompatible with my ‘priestly’ role as a lay person assisting in the Holy Sacrifice.
Your question was “how do you . . . assist.” Tuning out to pray something other than the Mass does not to my mind represent participatio actuoso in any sense of the term.
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Spiller
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You are clearly in dire need of catechesis. Even a good RCIA program would be of benefit to someone with your questions.
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GemmaRose
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Thank you. I knew that the word was not quite right, but I guess at that hour, my brain was not yet in full gear.
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CarrieH
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AMEN! I’m with you – sometimes I go to the NO Vigil Mass on Saturday AND the TLM on Sunday, although I prefer the TLM. We have only NO daily Masses around here, but I would rather attend those than to wait for Sunday so I can go to TLM. I’m just happy to have so many opportunities to receive our Lord that I will gladly participate by paying attention, singing, etc. unless they are singing a song which I find unacceptable in some way (questionable lyrics or otherwise inappropriate), in which case I will refrain from joining in the singing. Who am I to presume that my personal tastes take precedence over a form which the Church continues to approve?
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Spiller
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:yup:
A HORRID example of dissent from the Church…
It blows me away that some can attack those they feel are in dissent (eg “liberals”) while turning a completely blind eye to their own dissenting ways.
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Spiller
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The very idea of sitting in the Mass meditating on your OWN spiritual pursuits rather than joining in with all the rest of us is so incredibly self-centered and prideful and insulting to the Church that has produced the NO liturgy and encourages its use.
It really is a horrible thread. It does show why a lot of “traditionalists” are ignored or even scoffed at. Some of the comments here make it very difficult to take some people seriously…
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EasterJoy
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It is almost as if an enemy of the EF started it, to make those who prefer it look bad.
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Cat
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You know, I was thinking the same thing early this morning.It is almost as if an enemy of the EF started it, to make those who prefer it look bad.
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mercygate
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This is not a “horrible” thread. The OP was horrible. and aside from a couple of truly “horrible” and hysterical posts, most of the responses have been both temperate and respectful of both Forms of the Mass.It is almost as if an enemy of the EF started it, to make those who prefer it look bad.
The majority of posters point out that both Forms of the Mass are valid and have their merits, and that full participation, rather than personal, non-liturgical devotion is appropriate for those who attend either form.
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EasterJoy
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I meant that the premise was reprehensible, based on a lack of catechesis (or stubborn refusal of it, I don’t know which) that is uncharacteristic of traditional Catholics.
Most traditional Catholics who have found attending the NOM for the last few decades requires patience are in the habit of bringing their whole selves to their assistance at Mass, in spite of whatever interior challenges or resistance that must be surmounted. The OP may really feel exactly opposite, but it is wrong to imply or teach that those faithful souls haven’t been doing exactly the right thing. That goes beyond the pale.
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mercygate
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Agreed. Even as a Convert, it took a lot of “submitting” to make my peace with the Ordinary Form. But I LOVE the lectionary!
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ethelzguy
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To all here, not just EasterJoy…
So, just WHO constitutes the core of “traditional Catholics”?
I consider myself a “tradtional Catholic”. But, clearly there are those at CAF who think I’m some off the wall liberal hippie.
I spent the first 30 years of my life with the Latin Mass. Mass in the vernacular started around 1965-ish.
So, if MY generation (now in their 70’s) is the “hippie/liberal/NO/abuse” generation, who is left to “remember” the old Latin Mass to have to exhibit “patience”, and “bringing their whole selves to their assistance at Mass in spite of whatever interior challenges…”
How can you “miss” something that you never had, and “force” yourself to accept what you do?
It seems that some of this angst over the Mass form may be self-inflicted by a younger generation, rather than something forced upon them by a former generation?
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Indyann
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I’m with you Ethelzguy. I consider myself a traditional Catholic, I just don’t prefer the EF. I was raised with the TLM, and I was overjoyed to be able to pray the Mass in English.
I recently visited a neighboring parish that has the Latin Mass and it just reminded me why I love a reverent OF. That DOES NOT make me less traditional
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Cat
Guest
I think you have a good point.
We always want what is novel, innovative (yes, the TLM is novel and innovative to those who have not experienced it), and unattainable.
Once the TLM becomes more widespread and everyone has had a chance to experience it, I think that the novelty will wear off and it will empty out.
I base my rather gloomy opinion on the TLM in our city, which has been available since the 1980s.
There is a respectable crowd on Sundays; I don’t know about weekdays.
But it’s hardly bursting at the seams, even though other Catholic Masses (NO) ARE bursting at the seams.
I respectfully suggest that Catholics who depend upon Mass “form” to maintain their faith need to take a serious look at their Catholicism. This sounds like Protestantism to me. Many Protestants rely on their “feelings” to gauge their faith. If they attend a church worship service that isn’t to their “standards,” they label it “dead” and claim that they got nothing out of it. Or if they are more traditional, they claim that they can get nothing out of the more modern forms of Protestant worship.
A warning–many of these dissatisfied Protestants end up leaving church altogether, and many of them end up living sinful lives with no thought of God.
There is a “t-shirt expression” that you sometimes see–“If God seems far away, who moved?” It seems to me that if you can’t find God in one of the Mass forms that Holy Mother Church has made available to us, it’s not because He isn’t there. It’s because you have your eyes closed.
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ethelzguy
Guest
I had posted a similar commentary on another thread, but I’ll put it out there again.
I suspect for some (especially converts) that “old-school tradtional Catholicism” somewhat represents a “new” religion or religious experience.
As a religious society, we have gone from the original Catholicism, to mainstream Protestantism, to Evangelical Bible Christianism, and now perhaps BACK to old-school traditional Catholicsim?
Not trying to paint everyone with a broad brush. Obviously it doesn’t apply to everyone. But from what I read here, a significant core of “new tradtional Catholics” are converts and teenagers, many of whom are looking for something new (to them) and different.
Kind of like the cycles in car and clothing styles. Keep that old shirt or blouse long enough, and it comes back in style.
Maybe it works for Church too?
I suspect for some (especially converts) that “old-school tradtional Catholicism” somewhat represents a “new” religion or religious experience.
As a religious society, we have gone from the original Catholicism, to mainstream Protestantism, to Evangelical Bible Christianism, and now perhaps BACK to old-school traditional Catholicsim?
Not trying to paint everyone with a broad brush. Obviously it doesn’t apply to everyone. But from what I read here, a significant core of “new tradtional Catholics” are converts and teenagers, many of whom are looking for something new (to them) and different.
Kind of like the cycles in car and clothing styles. Keep that old shirt or blouse long enough, and it comes back in style.
Maybe it works for Church too?
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EasterJoy
Guest
Perhaps my grammar needs some help.
By writing “Most traditional Catholics who have found attending the NOM for the last few decades requires patience” I meant to imply that not all traditional Catholics find that attending the NOM requires patience. A lot don’t. Many people who like the older liturgies are nevertheless do not find that the newer liturgies test their patience.
What I was trying to say is that most Catholics who DO find that the NOM tries their patience NEVERTHELESS put on a game face and attend to what is happening, regardless of their age or what Mass they were brought up with. They would never dream of giving any Mass whatsoever the short shrift, whether the main celebrant, the choir, or even every other single soul in attendance seemed to have their minds elsewhere.
It does them a disservice to encourage them to do otherwise, or to imply that they would.
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