How do you plan a no-kids vacation?

[Xantippe]

I do. I have several friends that I grew up with or that I met in college who are very dear to me, who live in other states. If my friend in Chicago wants me to come up and attend her bachelorette party, I can’t really bring a baby. If my friend in Kansas City invites me to see her perform in an opera, well, babies aren’t really known for being Wagnerians. If my friend in Michigan, who has older kids, invites me to come up and go water skiing, it’s kinda hard to do that with a baby. If it doesn’t bother my husband if I leave for an overnight with friends, why should it bother you?

Yep. Same situation here–I’ve lived all over the place and our friends move, too.

If I want to see old friends, I have to travel or they have to travel.

 

[JLCecilia]

Well, even though things are tight, I don’t think my DH would say no to me getting away for an evening just for that reason. There won’t be lodging expenses b/c we can crash with my folks. Chances are, dad would even insist on treating us to a big breakfast before sending us on our way. My GFs can share the cost of gas and then all I would have is a couple of meals. The last few times we’ve been fleamarketing, it hasn’t been too difficult for me to say ‘no’ to myself just b/c I’m in declutter mode at home. I truly just enjoy walking around, looking at cute stuff and visiting w/ my GFs. Heck, half the fun is the convos in the car ride.

I think instead of asking DH to take vacation (a whopping 1.5 hours) to watch the kiddos after school, it won’t hurt them to go to their sitter for one day for an hour after school. And, even thought I’d like to leave him at home, it won’t be a big deal to take my 1yo with me.

Now, speaking of grandparents, our older 3 are big enough that we don’t worry too much at over-tiring his folks: the kids can feed themselves and take themselves to the bathroom and they’re big enough to go out on the tractor or the 4-wheeler w/ pa-pa at his farm. DH’s biggest concern w/ leaving the kids is his mom who had a very bad spell a few years ago and now has to use a walker to get around. She is rather large anyway, so she’s never really gotten around all that great. I’ve always been apprehensive about leaving very little ones just with her. Typically she will only watch the kids if her husband will be with her.

I am beginning to shed my guilt over going away after reading all the posts and realizing how many times I keep the kids on my own while DH goes and does ‘his’ thing. Taking the kids on outings has always just been me and them, even if DH was available, he would rather stay home and have the place to himself than go out with us. We are even having to cut our anniversary plans short to accommodate DH’s fantasy football draft. I’m a little bummed, but at the same time, leaving the kids with his folks is such a pain, it’s almost not worth it. It’s at least a 30 min drive out of our way to drop them off, so by the time we get to the restaurant, it’s too late to do anything but eat and go home. Whether or not we leave them overnight, picking them up is a pain and takes forever to get them to clean up their mess. DH and I just want to get them and get back home, but it’s never a quick thing. That alone really deters us from leaving them w/ gramma and grampa. And we’re typically too late getting back for his folks just to watch the kids at our home b/c they have a 20 min drive home.

While lunch or dinner w/ GFs is nice, I can tell it isn’t enough. My very dear friend and I have not been able to commit to anything more than a lunch date the last few months and we both feel like we need more time together.

 

[KP3243]

Real-life women aren’t “ditching” their families for extended periods–nobody can afford those kinds of trips regularly, for one thing.

I’m counting up, and I’ve been away from all children at most a week total (but probably not quite that much) over the course of 12 years of having kids and my husband and I have never managed a night away together over those 12 years. As far as family vacations (not travel to visit extended family), we did 2 nights total this year and 1 night away 2.5 years ago. In real life, it is a rare and precious thing to be able to get out of the house and have an actual vacation, with or without children and with or without spouse.

Again you keep changing directions here.

 

[Allegra]

Again you keep changing directions here.

It might be helpful if you were to clarify exactly what you are objecting to then. The OP proposed going for an overnight fleamarket outing with friends and you responded that she would be dishonoring her vocation as wife and mother and that Mary would never, ever do that. (By the way, didn’t Mary leave Joseph to toast his own bread for weeks so that she could visit her cousin in another town? I seem to remember that from somewhere…)

 

[Allegra]

I am beginning to shed my guilt over going away after reading all the posts and realizing how many times I keep the kids on my own while DH goes and does ‘his’ thing. Taking the kids on outings has always just been me and them, even if DH was available, he would rather stay home and have the place to himself than go out with us. We are even having to cut our anniversary plans short to accommodate DH’s fantasy football draft.

It’s kinda interesting how when men get the chance to “do their own thing” without the kids, it involves going out drinking with their friends, playing darts, going to the ballgame, attending a boatshow, etc. When women get a few hours without the baby, they go grocery shopping.

 

[KP3243]

It might be helpful if you were to clarify exactly what you are objecting to then. The OP proposed going for an overnight fleamarket outing with friends and you responded that she would be dishonoring her vocation as wife and mother and that Mary would never, ever do that. (By the way, didn’t Mary leave Joseph to toast his own bread for weeks so that she could visit her cousin in another town? I seem to remember that from somewhere…)

If you go back and re-read what I originally posted, I think a getaway with her husband is great. What I think is weird, is women who have this desire, desire being the key word here, to go away for weekends or on a week vacation with just their girlfriends when they have a husband and kids. I also responded to a claim that “people are not ball and chained to their family” as if family life and doing things with your family is somehow a prison for women and somehow those statements has been morphed into women do not take these trips in reality, that I am personally judging every woman on here which I did not, when I gave an example from my own experience that was morphed into I think I am better than people, that I think having to go to the hospital and leaving your kids to go get healthy is bad, I have been accused of claiming that women have to be with their families 24/7/365 for an entire life time without ever getting a break not even once in their entire married life while their husbands travel to exciting places and enjoy themselves. I even admitted my cultural background might be why I feel that way and then I was accused of not being American enough for people. Everything I have said, has been taken to the extreme and twisted into something I did not state. Joseph and Mary were betrothed not married and Mary went to Elizabeth to assist her in the last months of her pregnancy which is a lot different that a no-kids, no-husband trip. The virtue of Mary is that she always thought of herself last.

 

[pianistclare]

As if there is no difference between a hospital stay and a no-kids weekend with just your girlfriends, really, you don’t honestly believe that? Also read my previous posts I encouraged the get a way with her husband and for the record, our Lady is thee example, I hardly think imitating her is such a bad thing and when is expressing an opinion judging someone? Are you judging my Americanness because I included that I was not from here originally because there is really no other reason for you to have included that if it wasn’t.

WHOA. Hold it right there.
My people came with the Conquistadors. My husband is an immigrant from Ireland.
I NEVER said that people should not imitate Mary.
You are over-reacting.
Please stop.
There is NO difference in a overnight with your husband away and an overnight in the hospital. Why? Because the net result is the same. The children are cared for by someone else. The reason is immaterial.
Your angry posts may cause someone to judge your harshness, yes.

 

[EasterJoy]

Nope you jumped to that conclusion all on your own. I never said any of these things my whole original point was that I find leaving your family for an overnight with friends is odd to me. You all jump to the conclusion that MUST mean 24/7/365 which I clearly stated is not the case.

Fair enough–you did not say 24 hours a day. You did go well beyond saying it was “odd,” and you did imply that there is something wrong with the idea of adults wanting to socialize without their children, excepting a husband and a wife spending time with each other.

No-kids vacation? This is a modern invention as if kids are somehow infringing on their parents social lives, if your kids are at the age where they know you are gone this will bother them.

This says:

1. There is something wrong with the idea of a parent wanting to socialize without doing childcare at the same time.
2. There is something wrong with parents setting a family schedule that their children wouldn’t have chosen for themselves.

I also think if your husband wants alone time you should honor that considering that is your primary vocation.

No one is disputing this. The OP isn’t even disputing this.

Frankly a stay-cation with your family is probably the most fun for everyone. Plan a whole day of fun things to do together.

This is fine, but it is not the best way to catch up with your friends from college. No, your children do not necessarily want to leave you alone so you can talk to your friends. No, your friends do not necessarily want to have your attention divided between them and all your children. To get families together can be a great thing, it could even be the best thing if you can only have one–families getting together or only the adults getting together–but it is legitimate to recognize that adult gatherings that include children can have big down-sides for both the adults and the children.

IOW, sometimes what is *the most fun for everyone *is to split up and plan activities that fit each age group.

I can’t imagine the Blessed Mother telling Joseph and Jesus that she was going to Jerusalem for a girls weekend.

First of all, just because you can’t imagine it does not mean that Our Lady never spent a night away from Our Lord and St. Joseph, spending it instead in the company of women.

More importantly, though, to use Our Lady as your example implies that to spend a night away from both your husband and your child is a violation of holiness and must necessarily require shortchanging your vocation as a wife and a mother. That is simply not true. It is certainly not a teaching of the Church, and to make it into some binding rule is to lay a rule of human beings on the backs of the faithful as if it came from God, when it doesn’t.

The virtue of Mary is that she always thought of herself last.

Perhaps another of her virtues was that she did not give herself permission to micromanage people who were not under her authority, and did not lay down unnecessary rules for others to bear?

If you think it is better for your family if you always prefer to arrange your social life to include either your husband or your children, if not both, this is fine. No one ought to criticize you for that (although I don’t doubt that someone somewhere will). The sticking point here is when you imply that what works for you is not only the best way to do it, but the way Our Lady wants everyone to do it. That is crossing a line.

When you say, “This is what I do, and this is why,” you won’t get many complaints. When you say, “This is what I do, and when people do something different I have to wonder if they stop and think whether Our Lady would do it,” that is something else again. You have gone from the realm of opinion to the realm of moral superiority. Be very careful.

 

[PhiloMed]

If you go back and re-read what I originally posted, I think a getaway with her husband is great. What I think is weird, is women who have this desire, desire being the key word here, to go away for weekends or on a week vacation with just their girlfriends when they have a husband and kids.

And I think it’s weird that there are women who don’t have this desire.

Different strokes for different folks.

 

[Xantippe]

Fair enough–you did not say 24 hours a day. You did go well beyond saying it was “odd,” and you did imply that there is something wrong with the idea of adults wanting to socialize without their children, excepting a husband and a wife spending time with each other.

Yes.

This is fine, but it is not the best way to catch up with your friends from college. No, your children do not necessarily want to leave you alone so you can talk to your friends. No, your friends do not necessarily want to have your attention divided between them and all your children. To get families together can be a great thing, it could even be the best thing if you can only have one–families getting together or only the adults getting together–but it is legitimate to recognize that adult gatherings that include children can have big down-sides for both the adults and the children.

**Yes. Even with a local friend, when we both have little kids, it’s very hard to exchange two sentences in a row or have some sort of coherent conversation while taking care of basic needs and safety.
**
IOW, sometimes what is *the most fun for everyone *is to split up and plan activities that fit each age group.

Yes!

First of all, just because you can’t imagine it does not mean that Our Lady never spent a night away from Our Lord and St. Joseph, spending it instead in the company of women.

**Yes. It’s not kosher to say, I can’t imagine Our Lady doing XYZ and then beating up other women with that. It’s not like you’re Our Lady’s bridge partner or sorority sister and have some sort of special insight into what she would and wouldn’t do…

I know for a fact (with much greater certainty than KP3243 knows that Our Lady would never do a solo overnight visit away from her husband and child) that Our Lady would not DREAM of eating a ham and cheese sandwich or clam chowder, and yet I feel perfectly free to do so.**

Perhaps another of her virtues was that she did not give herself permission to micromanage people who were not under her authority, and did not lay down unnecessary rules for others to bear?

Yes.

If you think it is better for your family if you always prefer to arrange your social life to include either your husband or your children, if not both, this is fine. No one ought to criticize you for that (although I don’t doubt that someone somewhere will). The sticking point here is when you imply that what works for you is not only the best way to do it, but the way Our Lady wants everyone to do it. That is crossing a line.

When you say, “This is what I do, and this is why,” you won’t get many complaints. When you say, “This is what I do, and when people do something different I have to wonder if they stop and think whether Our Lady would do it,” that is something else again. You have gone from the realm of opinion to the realm of moral superiority. Be very careful.

Yes.

 

[Allegra]

If you go back and re-read what I originally posted, I think a getaway with her husband is great. What I think is weird, is women who have this desire, desire being the key word here, to go away for weekends or on a week vacation with just their girlfriends when they have a husband and kids. I also responded to a claim that “people are not ball and chained to their family” as if family life and doing things with your family is somehow a prison for women and somehow those statements has been morphed into women do not take these trips in reality, that I am personally judging every woman on here which I did not, when I gave an example from my own experience that was morphed into I think I am better than people, that I think having to go to the hospital and leaving your kids to go get healthy is bad, I have been accused of claiming that women have to be with their families 24/7/365 for an entire life time without ever getting a break not even once in their entire married life while their husbands travel to exciting places and enjoy themselves. I even admitted my cultural background might be why I feel that way and then I was accused of not being American enough for people. Everything I have said, has been taken to the extreme and twisted into something I did not state. Joseph and Mary were betrothed not married and Mary went to Elizabeth to assist her in the last months of her pregnancy which is a lot different that a no-kids, no-husband trip. The virtue of Mary is that she always thought of herself last.

I’m not sure why you and others are going on about going on trips with husbands, business trips, hospital stays, etc. The question at hand is that the OP wants to go on one overnight trip with lady friends. That’s what we are talking about now, so lets stay on topic. I haven’t twisted anything you’ve said. You are presenting the idea that it is unholy and disrespectful to the vocation of motherhood for a woman to desire less than 48 hours to spend with her lady friends. Is that not your position? Because it seems to be what you have stated in your posts and I don’t think I’m talking any license or making exhaggerations.

I’m actually interested in your reasoning for why this is a problem, but you keep going off on tangents rather than answer the question. You really don’t know what whether Mary went off on short trips to visit with other women, and while you may assume that is not what she would do because that is what you yourself prefer, it doesn’t stand as a particulary convincing argument.

It’s already been established that it isn’t harmful for a parent to be away from their children for a short period of time. Parents are required to be away for any number of reasons as you conceeded. You claim children won’t like it as if that’s an obvious fact, but I don’t necessarily think it is. It really depends on the children and what they are dong while their parents are gone. For example, if they get to have an awsome sleep-over at their cousin’s house (and they have a pool) they may wish that mom would go away more often. Furthermore, it probably isn’t in the best interest of the family to make every decision based on what the children “like” at a given time.

Your objection seems to be based mainly on the idea that women who go on trips with friends are doing so with an attitude akin to, “My kids are so boring and obnoxious and I can’t wait to get away from them.” This is not the case. Most women actually do like their kids and their attitude is simply, “I want to spend some time with my girlfriends.”

In my opinion, this isn’t a “modern invention”, nor is it odd. I think it’s normal and healthy for adult women to enjoy socializing with other adult women. I think a person who puts aside a weekend to concentrate time and energy entirely on interaction with her friends is far more likely to do the same for her husband and family. (And I mean actual family time, as opposed to hollering at them from the front seat of her car, plopping down a bowl of mac n cheese in between laundery and doing the dishes, and glancing over during commercial breaks to make sure they aren’t killing each other.) Furthermore, I think it is healthy and beneficial for the children to spend time with other family and friends and realize that while mom may go away for a while, she loves them and will always come back. This is how one raises secure and capable children.

 

[EasterJoy]

I’m not sure why you and others are going on about going on trips with husbands, business trips, hospital stays, etc. The question at hand is that the OP wants to go on one overnight trip with lady friends. That’s what we are talking about now, so lets stay on topic. I haven’t twisted anything you’ve said. You are presenting the idea that it is unholy and disrespectful to the vocation of motherhood for a woman to desire less than 48 hours to spend with her lady friends. Is that not your position? Because it seems to be what you have stated in your posts and I don’t think I’m talking any license or making exhaggerations.

I’m actually interested in your reasoning for why this is a problem, but you keep going off on tangents rather than answer the question. You really don’t know what whether Mary went off on short trips to visit with other women, and while you may assume that is not what she would do because that is what you yourself prefer, it doesn’t stand as a particulary convincing argument.

It’s already been established that it isn’t harmful for a parent to be away from their children for a short period of time. Parents are required to be away for any number of reasons as you conceeded. You claim children won’t like it as if that’s an obvious fact, but I don’t necessarily think it is. It really depends on the children and what they are dong while their parents are gone. For example, if they get to have an awsome sleep-over at their cousin’s house (and they have a pool) they may wish that mom would go away more often. Furthermore, it probably isn’t in the best interest of the family to make every decision based on what the children “like” at a given time.

Your objection seems to be based mainly on the idea that women who go on trips with friends are doing so with an attitude akin to, “My kids are so boring and obnoxious and I can’t wait to get away from them.” This is not the case. Most women actually do like their kids and their attitude is simply, “I want to spend some time with my girlfriends.”

In my opinion, this isn’t a “modern invention”, nor is it odd. I think it’s normal and healthy for adult women to enjoy socializing with other adult women. I think a person who puts aside a weekend to concentrate time and energy entirely on interaction with her friends is far more likely to do the same for her husband and family. (And I mean actual family time, as opposed to hollering at them from the front seat of her car, plopping down a bowl of mac n cheese in between laundery and doing the dishes, and glancing over during commercial breaks to make sure they aren’t killing each other.) Furthermore, I think it is healthy and beneficial for the children to spend time with other family and friends and realize that while mom may go away for a while, she loves them and will always come back. This is how one raises secure and capable children.

The thing is that there is not just one single correct way to raise secure and capable children, nor one way that will work equally well for all mothers, all fathers, or all children.

If you and your husband can agree with each other on how to care for your children, whether you are there or you accept the help of others, you are doing well. Trying to have a meeting of the minds with everybody is an excellent way to go over the deep end. Know your duties as the Church teaches them, listen to the opinions and experiences of others, think about how all of this applies to the actual family circumstances you have, and then make your own decisions as a couple.

I didn’t agree with everything KP3243 posted, but I don’t want to give the impression that she didn’t raise a valid point of view. Many people use the guidelines she uses, and are happy with them. Someone who is doing well by doing things as she does need not worry that they “ought to be” doing something different. If your husband, your family, and your friends are content, then you’ve hit on a good way.

 

[Allegra]

The thing is that there is not just one single correct way to raise secure and capable children, nor one way that will work equally well for all mothers, all fathers, or all children.

If you and your husband can agree with each other on how to care for your children, whether you are there or you accept the help of others, you are doing well. Trying to have a meeting of the minds with everybody is an excellent way to go over the deep end. Know your duties as the Church teaches them, listen to the opinions and experiences of others, think about how all of this applies to the actual family circumstances you have, and then make your own decisions as a couple.

I didn’t agree with everything KP3243 posted, but I don’t want to give the impression that she didn’t raise a valid point of view. Many people use the guidelines she uses, and are happy with them. Someone who is doing well by doing things as she does need not worry that they “ought to be” doing something different. If your husband, your family, and your friends are content, then you’ve hit on a good way.

I’m not saying that one has to go on trips to be a good mother. Lots of women don’t like to travel, or don’t have money to travel, or don’t have friends who travel, or don’t have friends at all. I already stated that I am not ready to be away from my baby over night. If a person has no reason to go on a trip or doesn’t want to, that’s fine. I don’t think it’s ideal, however, when a person feels that she MUSTN’T go on a trip, because she is under the misunderstanding it is unholy, neglecting her vocation as a mother, or detrimental to the development of her children. Not going on a trip isn’t going to hurt the family, but that level of scrupulosity, where a woman actually feels it is sinful to even DESIRE time away with her girlfriends that excesses a lunch date or prayer meeting, can’t be healthy for anyone. Then you get to the level where one is measuring other people’s love for their children by that particular system and it becomes straight up judgemental and rude.

 

[KP3243]

I’m not saying that one has to go on trips to be a good mother. Lots of women don’t like to travel, or don’t have money to travel, or don’t have friends who travel, or don’t have friends at all. I already stated that I am not ready to be away from my baby over night. If a person has no reason to go on a trip or doesn’t want to, that’s fine****. I don’t think it’s ideal, however, when a person feels that she MUSTN’T go on a trip, because she is under the misunderstanding it is unholy, neglecting her vocation as a mother, or detrimental to the development of her children. Not going on a trip isn’t going to hurt the family, but that level of scrupulosity, where a woman actually feels it is sinful to even DESIRE time away with her girlfriends that excesses a lunch date or prayer meeting, can’t be healthy for anyone. Then you get to the level where one is measuring other people’s love for their children by that particular system and it becomes straight up judgemental and rude.****

I don’t believe what is in bold, my posts on this thread affirm that I do not take this extreme position. This is the last time I am going to post on this thread because this has turned into something it should have never turned into. Almost everything I have said has been taken to an extreme position. My apologies to the original poster for how this thread has journeyed. I wish you and your family all the best and the same to everyone else.

 

[MarkInOregon]

WHOA. Hold it right there.
My people came with the Conquistadors. My husband is an immigrant from Ireland.
I NEVER said that people should not imitate Mary.
You are over-reacting.
Please stop.
There is NO difference in a overnight with your husband away and an overnight in the hospital. Why? Because the net result is the same. The children are cared for by someone else. The reason is immaterial.
Your angry posts may cause someone to judge your harshness, yes.

I never read her posts as angry and it does seem to me that everything she has said has been well taken and twisted a bit by those responding.

I do think you are wrong regarding the reason being immaterial–reasons do matter. If mom is away overnight because she had surgery–the message is quite different than mom is away overnight because she wanted to spend time away from you with friends. I say the same thing regarding hunting or golf trips for guys. There is a message that is sent–to either the kids or the spouse–I need time away from you and that is quite a different message–than I have to be away for work or because I am sick.

We are all different and I personally don’t like being away from my wife overnight. I enjoy the odd day or half day here or there but not the overnights which luckily have been rare over the past 25 years. I have no desire to go away with the guys–had enough of that in college.

The peace of Christ,
Mark

 

[pianistclare]

I never read her posts as angry and it does seem to me that everything she has said has been well taken and twisted a bit by those responding.

I do think you are wrong regarding the reason being immaterial–reasons do matter. If mom is away overnight because she had surgery–the message is quite different than mom is away overnight because she wanted to spend time away from you with friends. I say the same thing regarding hunting or golf trips for guys. There is a message that is sent–to either the kids or the spouse–I need time away from you and that is quite a different message–than I have to be away for work or because I am sick.

We are all different and I personally don’t like being away from my wife overnight. I enjoy the odd day or half day here or there but not the overnights which luckily have been rare over the past 25 years. I have no desire to go away with the guys–had enough of that in college.

The peace of Christ,
Mark

Well, with all due respect…as a man, people would seldom even question you about it.
And a night away with the boys really isn’t the issue is it?
We’re talking about mama roles, not daddy roles and only as society perceives them.
A night away with the guys? You’re kidding right? That’s funny.
Peace.

 

[Pax2u]

Well, with all due respect…as a man, people would seldom even question you about it.
And a night away with the boys really isn’t the issue is it?
We’re talking about mama roles, not daddy roles and only as society perceives them.
A night away with the guys? You’re kidding right? That’s funny.
Peace.

Wow…you snipe away and then end your post with “Peace.”

 

[pianistclare]

Wow…you snipe away and then end your post with “Peace.”

Wow. I said that because Mark is a friend…and I’m not taking it personally.
That’s what we do here. We comment. We don’t judge. His comment about a night away with the boys sounds funny. To me, anyway.

 

[Xantippe]

Wow. I said that because Mark is a friend…and I’m not taking it personally.
That’s what we do here. We comment. We don’t judge. His comment about a night away with the boys sounds funny. To me, anyway.

Not if you call it “camping,” “fishing,” or “hunting.” Then you can leave home for a week at a time no matter how little your kids are and it’s totally kosher.

It blows my mind how much guilt people want to pile on a mother for taking one (1.00) stinking night away to have fun once a decade. My husband just returned from 8 days on the West Coast visiting his parents with our two school age kids. I stayed home with the 21-month-old. Did it do her serious psychic damage to have 3/5 of her family away for 8 days? Not that I can tell. Did it do the big kids psychic damage that I wasn’t with them for the trip? Not at all. It sounds like they both had a fantastic visit with grandma and grandpa and I had a nice quiet week of limited meal prep, dishes and laundry.

Again, a family is not a chain gang. We don’t have to go everywhere and do everything together.

 

[Pax2u]

Wow. I said that because Mark is a friend…and I’m not taking it personally.
That’s what we do here. We comment. We don’t judge. His comment about a night away with the boys sounds funny. To me, anyway.

It came across as very sarcastic to me when I read it. Sorry I misread your intent.