How do you pray?

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Emad

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Hello all, I haven’t been here for some time, I just had a question, today many Christians pray by singing and dancing in churches. Is that supported by any Biblical verses? Is that how Jesus peace be upon him prayed or ordered you to pray? If not then when did this form of prayer come about? Also the other day as I passed by a church on Sunday I noticed some women who were dressed very tight clothes and in mini skirts and so forth. Is it appropriate to worship God half naked? Are the men in that church able to focus? Would Jesus peace be upon him have allowed people to worship God half naked or would he have prayed and danced with these women? As a Muslim I believe he would never do such a thing, but I am wondering how Christians view it.

As Muslims we still pray the same exact way the Prophet peace be upon him and his companions prayed and anyone who tries to change it or introduce something new into it is an innovator and considered astray.
 
You’re quite right. Many Christians prefer to worship by dancing in the aisles and wearing miniskirts.

However, not all Christians worship like this…please don’t assume that because some Christians do something they attempt to support it with Biblical verses. There is no Biblical justification for the miniskirts–things of that nature are actually condemned. As for singing, early Christians and their Judaic predecessors sang or chanted in worship. The Psalms in the Old Testament were written as songs. Dancing…eh…I can’t speak for all, but in good, orthodox Catholic churches where the liturgical rubrics are followed, dancing is never ever seen.

Not all Christians worship in the manner you describe. We Catholics worship as Our Lord Jesus told us–with the Eucharist. “And taking bread, he gave thanks, and brake; and gave to them, saying: This is my body, which is given for you. Do this for a commemoration of me.” (Luke 22:19).

Pax tecum
-ACEGC
 
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Emad:
Hello all, I haven’t been here for some time, I just had a question, today many Christians pray by singing and dancing in churches. Is that supported by any Biblical verses? Is that how Jesus peace be upon him prayed or ordered you to pray? If not then when did this form of prayer come about? Also the other day as I passed by a church on Sunday I noticed some women who were dressed very tight clothes and in mini skirts and so forth. Is it appropriate to worship God half naked? Are the men in that church able to focus? Would Jesus peace be upon him have allowed people to worship God half naked or would he have prayed and danced with these women? As a Muslim I believe he would never do such a thing, but I am wondering how Christians view it.

As Muslims we still pray the same exact way the Prophet peace be upon him and his companions prayed and anyone who tries to change it or introduce something new into it is an innovator and considered astray.
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I really don’t think you are trying to find the answer to any question here. Your true intentions are plainly obvious to everyone reading that post.
 
Dancing is not my preferred mode of prayer. Singing is OK, though. As I recall, King David both sang and danced in praise of the Lord.
 
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exoflare:
I really don’t think you are trying to find the answer to any question here. Your true intentions are plainly obvious to everyone reading that post.
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You are right exoflare.

Some of us (non catholic) are praying by singing… its depends to the basic rule of each denomination. Most protestants are dedicating the way their worship Jesus (highest praise for his name) by singing. Catholic in the other hand pray/worship by holy communion. But the most important is we do not put speaker out loud calling all the people with annoying sound 5 times a day. 😃
 
In all fairness, coming from the tradition the OP is, I can see why he would make such an observation. The problem is, with so many Charismatic Protestant groups, all worshipping differently, I can see how one may get confused.

As Catholics, we believe in the Liturgical worship, and you don’t see somone dancing all around, etc. Now, that said, there is nothing wrong with body language during songs and really letting yourself go while worshipping. The bible is not meant to advise you on your exact form of worship, nor is it a step by step handbook of the faith, so no need to find biblical support for this kind of worship. The Catholic Mass though, is completely biblical.
As for inappropriate attire, Catholics are encouraged to dress in “sunday clothing”, in other words, the best they have. Sadly though, many people cannot afford such nice clothing, and are not as nicely dressed, but that doesn’t mean they should be exluded from worship. People however, that dress in mini skirts, and the like, should be told how inappropriate it is, and that starts from the parents.
 
SubhanAllah, what other religion in the world can gather millions of people together…all worshipping the same way, prostrating to their Lord in unison.
 
The universal prayer of the Catholic Church is the Liturgy of the Hours, which is prayed daily at the liturgical hours by Catholics throughout the world.

And the Mass is offered universally throughout the world, every day, for the salvation of the world.
 
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Faith101:
SubhanAllah, what other religion in the world can gather millions of people together…all worshipping the same way, prostrating to their Lord in unison.
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of course only Islam. no other religion like Islam in the world. believe me. 😛
 
Cyber Knight:
of course only Islam. no other religion like Islam in the world. believe me. 😛
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oh faith101 one more. why should you prostrate to mecca? I thought it was to jerusalem? why God change his mind? and why do you kiss the black rock? is it a must? what is the meaning of this kissing? catholics in my country has tradition to kiss the cross when Good Friday. it measn we respect Jesus who died on the cross. if you were kissing muhammad picture i wont amaze but black rock? i have no idea… :confused:
 
Peace

The only fact that we can certainly establish is that black stone was put there by Prophet Ibrahim and Isma’eel (peace be upon them both) by the order of Almighty Allah, and the purpose of it was to indicate the beginning of tawaf (circumabulation of the Ka`bah).

Thus we as Muslims do not attach divine power to the stone. As `Umar Ibn Al-Khattab (may Allah be pleased with him) is reported to have said: “You’re just a stone that does not benefit or harm anyone, and if I hadn’t seen the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) kissing you, I would have not done so."

So, we are simply touching or kissing the Black Stone in order to honor us with association with the great Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him); it does not imply any reverence whatsoever."

However, some other scholars have classified some of the Hadith reports concerning the Black Stone as Sahih (authentic) and as such they relate some importance to the Black Stone. Here are some of the hadiths reported as regards the Black Stone:
  1. Ibn `Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him) reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “The Black Stone came down from Jannah (Paradise).” (At-Tirmidhi, Sunan, hadith no. 877, and classified as authentic hadith by Sheikh Al-Albaani in his book Sahih At-Tirmidthi, hadith no. 695 )
  2. Ibn `Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him) also narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “When the Black Stone came down from Paradise, it was whiter than milk, but the sins of the sons of Adam made it black.” (At-Tirmidhi, Sunan)
  3. Ibn `Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him) further related that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “By Allah, Allah will bring it forth on the Day of Judgment, and it will have two eyes with which it will see and a tongue with which it will speak, and it will testify in favor of those who touched it in sincerity.” (At-Tirmidhi, Sunan)
  4. Ibn `Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) quoted the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) as saying: “Touching them both [the Black Stone and Ar-Rukn Al-Yamani] is an expiation for one’s sins.” (At-Tirmidhi, Sunan, hadith no. 959. This hadith is classified as hasan by At-Tirmidhi and as Sahih by Al-Hakim (1/664), and Adh-Dhahabi agreed with him.)
 
gurrato alaien:
Thus we as Muslims do not attach divine power to the stone. As `Umar Ibn Al-Khattab (may Allah be pleased with him) is reported to have said: “You’re just a stone that does not benefit or harm anyone, and if I hadn’t seen the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) kissing you, I would have not done so."
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I’m sorry but even if your prophet command to kill the unbelievers you also follow his command or use your logic?
So, we are simply touching or kissing the Black Stone in order to honor us with association with the great Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him); it does not imply any reverence whatsoever."
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so association to the great (pls) prophet is ok but association anything to God is not OK? so you respect more to Muhammad than to your Allah.
 
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exoflare:
I really don’t think you are trying to find the answer to any question here. Your true intentions are plainly obvious to everyone reading that post.
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Your right and wrong at the same time. I do want to know how this came about, but I also want to get some people thinking too.
 
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Emad:
Your right and wrong at the same time. I do want to know how this came about, but I also want to get some people thinking too.
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Well you need to be more specific, then. Your initial post was more derogatory implications (from a strawman argument, no less) than actual legitimate questioning.
 
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Emad:
Hello all, I haven’t been here for some time, I just had a question, today many Christians pray by singing and dancing in churches. Is that supported by any Biblical verses? Is that how Jesus peace be upon him prayed or ordered you to pray? If not then when did this form of prayer come about?
Click to expand...
Singing is certaintly part of solemn worship ceremonies. However in so far as Catholicism is concerned, dancing of the kind one sees in the street, in weddings etc are never a part of hard worship. Some hymns have actions (like raising of hands, clapping etc) but these must not be construed as dancing. One must bear in mind that not all activities that one sees being carried out in cathedrals/chapel are official solemn worship. There could be baptism, fellowship or prayer meetings, Novenas, Rosaries, band practice, caroling practice etc. In any case even if dancing is done, they don’t dance to each other, they dance in worship, eyes closed and focussed on God. Lately various form of activities are being carried out by various Parishes to attract youth. Dancing is not a sin. It is an expression of joy. Christ wants people to have peace and joy.
Also the other day as I passed by a church on Sunday I noticed some women who were dressed very tight clothes and in mini skirts and so forth. Is it appropriate to worship God half naked? Are the men in that church able to focus? Would Jesus peace be upon him have allowed people to worship God half naked or would he have prayed and danced with these women? As a Muslim I believe he would never do such a thing, but I am wondering how Christians view it.
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What or which church was that? Could that be a Wedding Mass, briefings, Youth Prayer Gathering, RCIA gatherings? In any case, there is a limit to what Priests can do and that is to keep telling worshippers of the proper dress code for hard worship. He certaintly cannot refuse them entry. God sees our heart, not whether we have cleaned our ears, nose before prayer. There are times when I myself attend Mass in khakis shorts, T-shirt and sandals 😃 but that was because I mis-managed my time, out shopping and talking and meeting friends that I didn’t realise time was aflying. It was Mass or miss Mass because to go home and change would mean missing most of the ceremonies.

Do I get distracted by the sight of these women? Hell, no! One can get distracted even in a telephone or confession booth! To me the sight is normal, we see them in the street, at home at parties, in office, buses, trains… I would however be distracted, even in the street if I see a black hijabbed women (or men?) 😃
As Muslims we still pray the same exact way the Prophet peace be upon him and his companions prayed and anyone who tries to change it or introduce something new into it is an innovator and considered astray.
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God gives us free-will. There are various ways of showing our joys and gratitude to Kings and Queens, leaders, or people in gigh places: singing, waving, standing ovation, reading out dedicated poetry etc. Why must we be static? If we are for God who can be against us? If The Church agrees on something, certaintly Christ Himself would too! This is a very clear command given by Him. This is the very beauty of the Catholic Church! It is a living and dynamic church!

In Him!
 
Cyber Knight:
oh faith101 one more. why should you prostrate to mecca? I thought it was to jerusalem? why God change his mind? and why do you kiss the black rock? is it a must? what is the meaning of this kissing? catholics in my country has tradition to kiss the cross when Good Friday. it measn we respect Jesus who died on the cross. if you were kissing muhammad picture i wont amaze but black rock? i have no idea… :confused:
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I believe it was, until the Jews rejected Mohammed as a prophet.
 
InshAllah, i will try to ignore the sarcasm in your post, and attempt to answer your questions. If i make a mistake, i hope other muslims on this thread will correct me.
Cyber Knight said:
oh faith101 one more. why should you prostrate to mecca
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Muslims dont prostrate to Mecca, they prostrate to Allah.
They prostrate *in the directon * of Mecca because this is a commandment from Allah.
and why do you kiss the black rock? is it a must? what is the meaning of this kissing?
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The kissing is not a must. I believe it is out of respect, as it was the first house built toward worshipping the ONE God by Ibrahim and his son.

It is not in any way divine, nor does any muslim worship it in any way shape or form.
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Ching_PBUH:
Singing is certaintly part of solemn worship ceremonies. However in so far as Catholicism is concerned, dancing of the kind one sees in the street, in weddings etc are never a part of hard worship. Some hymns have actions (like raising of hands, clapping etc) but these must not be construed as dancing. One must bear in mind that not all activities that one sees being carried out in cathedrals/chapel are official solemn worship. There could be baptism, fellowship or prayer meetings, Novenas, Rosaries, band practice, caroling practice etc. In any case even if dancing is done, they don’t dance to each other, they dance in worship, eyes closed and focussed on God. Lately various form of activities are being carried out by various Parishes to attract youth. Dancing is not a sin. It is an expression of joy. Christ wants people to have peace and joy.

What or which church was that? Could that be a Wedding Mass, briefings, Youth Prayer Gathering, RCIA gatherings? In any case, there is a limit to what Priests can do and that is to keep telling worshippers of the proper dress code for hard worship. He certaintly cannot refuse them entry. God sees our heart, not whether we have cleaned our ears, nose before prayer. There are times when I myself attend Mass in khakis shorts, T-shirt and sandals 😃 but that was because I mis-managed my time, out shopping and talking and meeting friends that I didn’t realise time was aflying. It was Mass or miss Mass because to go home and change would mean missing most of the ceremonies.

Do I get distracted by the sight of these women? Hell, no! One can get distracted even in a telephone or confession booth! To me the sight is normal, we see them in the street, at home at parties, in office, buses, trains… I would however be distracted, even in the street if I see a black hijabbed women (or men?) 😃

God gives us free-will. There are various ways of showing our joys and gratitude to Kings and Queens, leaders, or people in gigh places: singing, waving, standing ovation, reading out dedicated poetry etc. Why must we be static? If we are for God who can be against us? If The Church agrees on something, certaintly Christ Himself would too! This is a very clear command given by Him. This is the very beauty of the Catholic Church! It is a living and dynamic church!

In Him!
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I think the above post more or less summarises a good response to answer the misconception insinuated by the originator of this thread.

Living a parish life long enough, I know that there may be church politic that can make even worshipping such restricted activity. Like you should do this and you should do that while worshipping.

Some churches impose dress code while coming for mass (like the diocese I go to) and I find that a good idea. Sometimes parishioners take mass too lightly and dress inappropriately. If we are to meet the King, how would we attire ourselves? On the other hand, are we going to judge those who come in khaki pants? There must be a balance somewhere. Common sense dictates us to come to mass (esp Sunday mass) well-prepared and suitably attired. But there are still miniskirt and short pants. Do we refuse these? Definitely no! I would rather people go to mass than not at all. In time, propriety will seep in.

For our Muslim friends’ information here, the one billion Catholics, if they all come to mass, would worship exactly with the same lithurgy at given any time of the day of the week. Surprise? They would listen to the same passages from the Bible and all do the same ritual.

What’s been mentioned so far is the liturgical worship, the celebration of the Holy mass. Another aspect of prayer is the personal prayer that a Christian does on his own. This add up to what we called a personal prayer life, where a person comes before God in prayer, be it in a chapel or in the privacy of his home. Christian saints are noted for their intense prayer lives, a major source of their personal holiness.

Mother Teresa, a woman of prayer, used to say that it is impossible for you not to be transformed to be like Jesus if you spend enough time with Him. For the radiating light of the Lord does transform. If you are becoming more and more like Jesus, there is no worry that you will be distracted by a girl in miniskirt! Jesus is not lustful!
 
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