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Melchior_1
Guest
I genuflect, then stand and receive on the tongue. Unless the Church uses alter rails, then I genuflect and proceed to use the rails accordingly.
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Ockham
Guest
Hello LFF. You are new to the forum and I’ll assume to this issue. Do a search on it and you’ll find many threads. Do an internet search and you’ll find quite a lot of information. In summary, the Church for most of its history did think the manner of reception mattered and made COTT the norm as a higher form of reverence. Yes what’s in your heart is important but the external form is too. I was taught CITH too but after my own research learned and now practice COTT.
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ProVobis
Guest
Tell that to the newly-married couple who feed each other cake at a wedding reception.
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PaulinVA
Guest
Exactly! The clergy run our Church. They have gotten us into this mess. At my parish, there are ten EMHC at some Masses, but the priests other than the celebrant are no where to be seen. Ditto with the deacons and the deacon candidates.
If the ordained would do their job, we wouldn’t need EMHCs in most normal instances. I’d be willing to wait a few extra minutes for the distribution of Holy Communion.
If only the ordained were distributing Holy Communion, then we could bring back the altar rail to facilitate that, and using the altar rail, COTT is the way that makes sense.
There! Problem solved!
Someone is counting people to ensure the correct number of unconsecrated hosts are brought up during the offertory That same person can cause more or fewer EMHC to be used. And, if there aren’t enough EMHC, tough! Wait a little longer.
This really isn’t all that hard.
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Pug
Guest
Sometimes in our parish the priest has more ciboriums and cups on the altar than there are priests/deacons/scheduled EMHC to distribute. So, the priest holds up say three fingers and in response three people come forward from the congregation to help distribute communion.
I mention this because you seemed to be saying this could not be done. But since you asked what I meant, perhaps I completely misunderstood what you were saying. I do that often enough.
That is why I asked why you said it couldn’t be done. I’ve seen it done. At least, if I understood you properly.
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paperwight
Guest
Our priest just says ‘Is there another Eucharistic Minister available, please’, (or ‘two’ or whatever) which seems more straight-forward than hand-signals.
And yes, I know, isn’t it shocking, he actually says ‘Eucharistic Minister’ and not ‘Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion’! And you know what? Everyone understands what he means.
And yes, I know, isn’t it shocking, he actually says ‘Eucharistic Minister’ and not ‘Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion’! And you know what? Everyone understands what he means.
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ProVobis
Guest
Too bad it’s come to that. Of course they’d understand. He wouldn’t be asking real Eucharistic Ministers to come up, would he?
I would imagine he could easily say the four-syllable “EMHC” too, which would be more accurate and not as painfully lengthy.
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mick321
Guest
E-MOCToo bad it’s come to that. Of course they’d understand. He wouldn’t be asking real Eucharistic Ministers to come up, would he?
Is what it is.
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ProVobis
Guest
And make it part of the rubrics.E-MOC
Is what it is.
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choy
Guest
and how many priests do you have at your parish
like i said, we can pressume all we want why something is happening the way it is. but at the end of the day, its all pressumptions. we don’t know the truth. maybe we’re right, maybe we’re wrong. but we should know our place in the church. if you think its a grave abuse, then talk to your priest. hear out his explanation. coming to the internet and complaining won’t fix a thing
EMHCs are scheduled ahead of time. like i said, they’re not called up before mass starts
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choy
Guest
no, i just didn’t get what you were trying to say. perhaps because i’ve never seen what you were trying to describe so when i read your post my mind was completely blank, can’t draw up a pictureSometimes in our parish the priest has more ciboriums and cups on the altar than there are priests/deacons/scheduled EMHC to distribute. So, the priest holds up say three fingers and in response three people come forward from the congregation to help distribute communion.
I mention this because you seemed to be saying this could not be done. But since you asked what I meant, perhaps I completely misunderstood what you were saying. I do that often enough.
i do hope those three people are trained and given the Rite to become EMHCs
in the Philippines, EMHCs are even reqruied to wear formal clothes, and a stole (not the priest’s stole of course) to signify their ministry. and they sit in a specific location in the church. they are scheduled ahead of time, they do not attend every mass waiting to see if they are needed or not
so far in the parishes i have attended here in Canada, the same is true except for the stole and formal wear. like i said, the EMHCs have to be scheduled ahead of time, you don’t want them all to be attending the same mass, then in the other masses there won’t be anyone there to assist
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Ockham
Guest
Exactly and that’s contrary to the rules the Magisterium has set. Clearly you are not reading or not comprehending the Church documents that are provided on this topic. In fact there is truth, it is black and white but you are choosing to create a grey fog in order to defend things like EMHCs and CITH. Ironically you keep bringing up the concept of hidden agenda. Could this be a Freudian slip on your part? What is your position on abortion, divorce, celibacy, salvation? How far along the liberal agenda are you?
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Ockham
Guest
Which further blurs the distinction between clergy and laity.
I’m starting to worry about the Philippines especially given the charismatic movement so prevalent there. It wouldn’t be out of the question for another major schism/defection from the Church given all the untraditional practices going on.
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MarkThompson
Guest
No, it’s really not. EMHCs are “extraordinary” in the sense that they are not to be ordinarily used Church-wide and the goal is not to have them, but at any given parish the circumstances may be different. If a parish has only one priest and twelve hundred massgoers every Sunday, then hopefully they will get more priests in the future, but until that happens they’re fully entitled to use EMHCs every week. There’s no rule that, e.g., no particular parish can use EMHCs more than 49% of time.
(Also, this has nothing much to do with the Magisterium, i.e. the teaching authority of the Church, but that’s a separate issue.)
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choy
Guest
there you go. Mark beat me to it
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Ockham
Guest
Once again Mark you are appealing to the extreme to justify your position. Ok, if there are twelve hundred people and one priest EMHCs are probably justified. Before you suggest it I’ll grant you that if twelve million people are at Mass and just one priest many EMHCs would be justified too. However, the topic of EMHCs is generally focused on their over-use in the typical parish, the typical Mass, contrary to the GIRM and RS.
Here’s some advice from this site:
EXTRAORDINARY MINISTERS OF HOLY COMMUNION
For some time the Holy See has been concerned about the overuse in America and other countries of extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion. These are individuals other than bishops, priests, and deacons who distribute Communion to the faithful.
In many places extraordinary ministers have been used in ordinary circumstances. To facilitate this they are sometimes referred to simply as “Eucharistic ministers” (not a title used for them in Church documents) or as “special ministers” rather than “extraordinary ministers.”
To prevent the overuse of extraordinary ministers, the new GIRM provides that “the priest may be assisted in the distribution of Communion by other priests who happen to be present. If such priests are not present and there is a very large number of communicants, the priest may call upon extraordinary ministers to assist him, e.g., duly instituted acolytes or even other faithful who have been deputed for this purpose. In case of necessity, the priest may depute suitable faithful for this single occasion” (162).
In some places extraordinary ministers have been encouraged to gather around the altar before the distribution of Communion and even to receive Communion before the priest does. To prevent this, the new GIRM provides that “these ministers should not approach the altar before the priest has received Communion, and they are always to receive from the hands of the priest celebrant the vessel containing either species of the Most Holy Eucharist for distribution to the faithful” (162).
catholic.com/library/liturgy/cag_changes.asp
Here’s some advice from this site:
EXTRAORDINARY MINISTERS OF HOLY COMMUNION
For some time the Holy See has been concerned about the overuse in America and other countries of extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion. These are individuals other than bishops, priests, and deacons who distribute Communion to the faithful.
In many places extraordinary ministers have been used in ordinary circumstances. To facilitate this they are sometimes referred to simply as “Eucharistic ministers” (not a title used for them in Church documents) or as “special ministers” rather than “extraordinary ministers.”
To prevent the overuse of extraordinary ministers, the new GIRM provides that “the priest may be assisted in the distribution of Communion by other priests who happen to be present. If such priests are not present and there is a very large number of communicants, the priest may call upon extraordinary ministers to assist him, e.g., duly instituted acolytes or even other faithful who have been deputed for this purpose. In case of necessity, the priest may depute suitable faithful for this single occasion” (162).
In some places extraordinary ministers have been encouraged to gather around the altar before the distribution of Communion and even to receive Communion before the priest does. To prevent this, the new GIRM provides that “these ministers should not approach the altar before the priest has received Communion, and they are always to receive from the hands of the priest celebrant the vessel containing either species of the Most Holy Eucharist for distribution to the faithful” (162).
catholic.com/library/liturgy/cag_changes.asp
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MarkThompson
Guest
Ockham, you’ve been presenting things as though there’s a rule against having regularly scheduled EMHCs, presumably because they would then be “ordinary,” despite “Magisterial teaching” that they must remain extraordinary. But there’s no such rule, and to think otherwise reflects a misunderstanding of what it actually means for them to be extraordinary.
Are EMHCs highly overused? Absolutely, no question. Can they be regularly scheduled at a parish that regularly needs them (1200 massgoers is a large but not ridiculous number)? Without a doubt.
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palmas855
Guest
I would agree that in a Mass with 1200 in attendance then extraordinary ministers, in the absence of other Priests and Deacons, would be very helpful and required.
On the other hand, a normal weekday Mass with 20-30 people present would have no need except in the rare case where the Priest is too frail to continue. Ditto for the overwhelming majority of Masses celebrated in most Churches. I know that there are Msses that have huge numbers in attendance. I don’t think that very many would object too strenuously to extraordinary ministers at those, although the Tradititional Mass does get along without them and always did
, even with large numbers present.I think the problem is when having extraordinary ministers scheduled and used at each and every Mass is the norm rather than the exception. I can recall vividly Masses where there werer maybe 20 people in attendance and there would still be an extraordinary minister standing side by side with Priest.
And that my friend is ridiculous and totally at odds with what the instructions clearly call for.
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MarkThompson
Guest
Absolutely true, with the one exception that I think it’s better to offer the chalice even though that might require an EMHC. For thirty people, there definitely no call for more than one person to distribute each of the species, though.I would agree that in a Mass with 1200 in attendance then extraordinary ministers, in the absence of other Priests and Deacons, would be very helpful and required.
On the other hand, a normal weekday Mass with 20-30 people present would have no need except in the rare case where the Priest is too frail to continue. Ditto for the overwhelming majority of Masses celebrated in most Churches. I know that there are Msses that have huge numbers in attendance. I don’t think that very many would object too strenuously to extraordinary ministers at those, although the Tradititional Mass does get along without them and always did
I think the problem is when having extraordinary ministers scheduled and used at each and every Mass is the norm rather than the exception. I can recall vividly Masses where there werer maybe 20 people in attendance and there would still be an extraordinary minister standing side by side with Priest.
And that my friend is ridiculous and totally at odds with what the instructions clearly call for.
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