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choy
Guest
if the Church doesn’t want me or anyone to receive CITH, then she will ban it
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Ockham
Guest
The Church directs you to COTT.
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Pug
Guest
I agree with you about the not soothing my throat.Thos sound like they could all be good mortifications.
It is a good mortification. It inconveniences only me. I should consider it more often.
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Pug
Guest
Is it possible that the Church or the pope or whomever is hoping to let CITH die a natural death, slowly supplanted by COTT? Some Catholics have known nothing but CITH their entire life so far. They will eventually die of old age. Catechumens, etc. can be encouraged to use COTT. This would cause a gradual change over time, with less and less CITH, without disturbing the faithful who were taught that way.
Maybe if there emerges some visible mass of people at regular Sunday masses who receive on the tongue, things will change more quickly. My parish now contains a noticeable contingent, and it didn’t before, even a few EMCHs.
I have been wondering if that will change the experience of Catholics, so that everyone will at least realize there is such a thing as COTT.
Maybe if there emerges some visible mass of people at regular Sunday masses who receive on the tongue, things will change more quickly. My parish now contains a noticeable contingent, and it didn’t before, even a few EMCHs.
I have been wondering if that will change the experience of Catholics, so that everyone will at least realize there is such a thing as COTT.
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choy
Guest
are you the Church?
because the Church allows CITH. only you seem to be insistent on COTT-only
anyone who feels COTT gives them better faith, better reverence, better at loving Our Lord, they should receive COTT. the same can be said for those who feel the same way with CITH. one’s experience is different from another. you can’t force people not to do something which the Church allows them to do. the Church has authority, we as laity don’t. our opinions are nothing but opinions
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choy
Guest
our Church is guided by the Holy Spirit. if its more profitable for souls of men that CITH be abolished, then it will happen no matter what.Is it possible that the Church or the pope or whomever is hoping to let CITH die a natural death, slowly supplanted by COTT? Some Catholics have known nothing but CITH their entire life so far. They will eventually die of old age. Catechumens, etc. can be encouraged to use COTT. This would cause a gradual change over time, with less and less CITH, without disturbing the faithful who were taught that way.
Maybe if there emerges some visible mass of people at regular Sunday masses who receive on the tongue, things will change more quickly. My parish now contains a noticeable contingent, and it didn’t before, even a few EMCHs.
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Pug
Guest
Thank God! I mean this for real, not sarcastic. I’m so glad we can rely upon this.
I don’t see many concrete ways a regular parishioner can respond to some of the worries raised in this thread. I’ve always seen this as a Church leadership type thing. The bishops will do what they do about this issue. I can act to be sure that the catechumens (I am on the RCIA team) are told about communion on the tongue. It used to be that they were all trained to receive in the hand as if there were no other way, which made me unhappy.
I find it rather disturbing that CITH and COTT are compared (not by you, choy) to not attending Sunday mass and attending Sunday mass. Skipping mass for no reason is grave matter, but CITH is nothing like that at all. I find it hard to discern the basis for them as comparables.
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choy
Guest
i would have said COTT and CITH would have been like OF and EF Mass, but too many would say that CITH is attached to OF and COTT is attached to EF, even though a lot of people receive COTT in the OF and obviously no CITH in EF. but thats exactly what it is, two forms of the same thing.
a lot of people think Bishops do a lot of crazy things. but sometimes its just the lack on knowing what a Bishop actually does. and some people feel that every action of the Bishop needs to be reported to them or something, otherwise they think the Bishop isn’t doing anything. i wouldn’t say that there are no Bishops who eventually allow abuse, but Bishops are more knowledgeable than some people would give them credit for. let us not forget that no Bishop becomes a Bishop without the approval of the Pope. and we regard the Pope so highly, so why can’t we regard these people he has chosen highly as well? lets trust in their judgment, and if there’s error lets trust in the Church that the error will be corrected.
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Melchior_1
Guest
I need to amend mine from before. Now that I’ve got nerve issues in my back (and at the age of 28 begun walking with a cane…which is pretty depressing when I think about it) I bow, make the sign of the cross, then receive on the tongue while standing.
Is this an acceptable amount of piety? Should I add anything else to make myself more reverent? Keep in mind I can’t genuflect very well at the moment.
I figured I’d ask because some people here seem to be able to judge others reverence and piety really well and know exactly what’s on people’s hearts at Mass without ever meeting them or being at that Mass.
Is this an acceptable amount of piety? Should I add anything else to make myself more reverent? Keep in mind I can’t genuflect very well at the moment.
I figured I’d ask because some people here seem to be able to judge others reverence and piety really well and know exactly what’s on people’s hearts at Mass without ever meeting them or being at that Mass.
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Ockham
Guest
It isn’t my opinion that the Church directs us to COTT - it is the universal norm. Why hasn’t CITH been made a norm? Why does the Pope only distribute COTT?
The laity got CITH into the GIRM so actually our opinions and practices do matter. Disobedience is being tolerated by the Church, that doesn’t mean its right.
It isn’t about what you feel inside it is the external display of reverence to our Lord. This isn’t about you it’s about Him. CITH seems to appeal to people who are egocentric rather than the Divine.
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jam070406
Guest
Sorry for your condition.
Nobody is questioning your piety, judging or trying to read your heart.
Disbelief in the Real Presence is a real problem in the Church today. The Church needs to address this problem and the Sec. of the Congregation for Divine Worship & the Pope, by example, has said it may be time for CITH to be done away with.
Maybe when people that disbelieve are kneeling, recieving on the tongue they’ll ask the question, why all the big deal to receive a symbolic piece of bread?
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Canto
Guest
While there are other ways to catechise people, I think this would be the most effective, and especially bending down, even if one all ready believes in the RP, it will give time to remind and reflect.
Some have said that kneeling at an altar rail (thoses things that were removed in some parishes without any permission) would be quicker and reduce the need for EMHCs. This would also aid especially the sense of the Mass as a sacrifice at the hands of the Priest.
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ncjohn
Guest
Oh, so we’re back to something being the universal norm being translated as being superior and the Church “directing us to it?” Then we’re right back to the the logical extension of that being that the Church is directing us to the OF liturgy since it is the norm of the Church and the EF must be inferior. I’m sorry but that logic just does not wash, period. The Pope has said so, the Church has said so. Indults are given because a significant segment of the Catholic population finds value in them even if they aren’t the universal norm. It doesn’t make indulted practices inferior; it simply means that they don’t translate universally.
There is nowhere where the Church is “directing” anyone to COTT. The Pope may or may not have his preferences. The fact that he uses it as private Masses–but most assuredly does NOT demand it at the larger Papal Masses–does not translate to “directing” anything. One significant reason for the Pope demanding it in those who receive from him directly has been noted by the Church as the greater difficulty of people taking the host as a “souvenir”.
It still boggles my mind here that some people just cannot accept that some people find reverence and can honor God in a way that is different from their personal preference. It is reminiscent of Jesus having to rebuke the disciples for wanting to call down thunder on the band who was preaching in Jesus’s name but didn’t belong to their “in” group. I can well imagine what he might have to say to those with arrogance to tell people how to worship him today.
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Canto
Guest
I would suggest that a segment of the Catholic population has never been taught the norm of communion on the tongue. Would I be right?
Notice the patten below as per Redemptoris Sacramentum and the GIRM.
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jam070406
Guest
Those arrogant Eastern Catholics!! Not allowing people to receive in the hand!!
Some even being given Our Lord on a spoon!!!
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Oneofthewomen
Guest
Very well said! :clapping:Oh, so we’re back to something being the universal norm being translated as being superior and the Church “directing us to it?” Then we’re right back to the the logical extension of that being that the Church is directing us to the OF liturgy since it is the norm of the Church and the EF must be inferior. I’m sorry but that logic just does not wash, period. The Pope has said so, the Church has said so. Indults are given because a significant segment of the Catholic population finds value in them even if they aren’t the universal norm. It doesn’t make indulted practices inferior; it simply means that they don’t translate universally.
There is nowhere where the Church is “directing” anyone to COTT. The Pope may or may not have his preferences. The fact that he uses it as private Masses–but most assuredly does NOT demand it at the larger Papal Masses–does not translate to “directing” anything. One significant reason for the Pope demanding it in those who receive from him directly has been noted by the Church as the greater difficulty of people taking the host as a “souvenir”.
It still boggles my mind here that some people just cannot accept that some people find reverence and can honor God in a way that is different from their personal preference. It is reminiscent of Jesus having to rebuke the disciples for wanting to call down thunder on the band who was preaching in Jesus’s name but didn’t belong to their “in” group. I can well imagine what he might have to say to those with arrogance to tell people how to worship him today.
Thank you! :tiphat:
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Pug
Guest
Melchior_,
How frustrating to walk with a cane so young. That is the sort of thing that can change your view of things. That you make a bow even while balancing with a cane no doubt encourages those who see you by your love for God. I say do not trouble yourself on that account at all! Not that I know anything, though.
If you are worried, ask your confessor or spiritual director if you should alter your behavior. My experience is that they will happily offer an opinion about how you should conduct yourself with things like that.
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jam070406
Guest
I’ll stick with the Pope thanks.Oh, so we’re back to something being the universal norm being translated as being superior and the Church “directing us to it?” Then we’re right back to the the logical extension of that being that the Church is directing us to the OF liturgy since it is the norm of the Church and the EF must be inferior. I’m sorry but that logic just does not wash, period. The Pope has said so, the Church has said so. Indults are given because a significant segment of the Catholic population finds value in them even if they aren’t the universal norm. It doesn’t make indulted practices inferior; it simply means that they don’t translate universally.
There is nowhere where the Church is “directing” anyone to COTT. The Pope may or may not have his preferences. The fact that he uses it as private Masses–but most assuredly does NOT demand it at the larger Papal Masses–does not translate to “directing” anything. One significant reason for the Pope demanding it in those who receive from him directly has been noted by the Church as the greater difficulty of people taking the host as a “souvenir”.
It still boggles my mind here that some people just cannot accept that some people find reverence and can honor God in a way that is different from their personal preference. It is reminiscent of Jesus having to rebuke the disciples for wanting to call down thunder on the band who was preaching in Jesus’s name but didn’t belong to their “in” group. I can well imagine what he might have to say to those with arrogance to tell people how to worship him today.
When asked why the Pope had decided to give Holy Communion exclusively in this way, Msgr. Marini responded, “It is necessary not to forget that the distribution of Communion on the hand continues to remain, from the juridical standpoint, an exception (indult) to the universal law, conceded by the Holy See to those bishops’ conferences who have requested it. The form used by Benedict XVI attempts to underline the force of the valid norm for the entire Church.” In other words, the normative way Catholics receive the Eucharist is in the mouth after or during an act of humble, loving reverence.
Msgr. Marini added, however, that Benedict’s purpose went beyond merely reminding Catholics that reception of the Eucharist on the tongue, rather than on the hand, is the Church’s normative and preferred way. He said that receiving Communion on the tongue "better highlights the truth of the real presence in the Eucharist, helps the devotion of the faithful, and introduces more easily the sense of mystery — aspects which, in our times, pastorally-speaking, it is urgent to highlight and recover."
catholicity.com/commentary/landry/00663.html
(emphasis mine)
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Pug
Guest
This comparison is easier to understand.
You’re right. How a bishop is responding to a situation is completely opaque to the majority of the laity. The bishop is invisible, I think, to the average Catholic. Not on purpose, but because it is the pastor that they see, and they never rarely meet or hear anything from their bishop. Unless I have special knowledge, I’d give preference to whatever he thinks over me. It is rather hard to get a grip on what he is thinking, though. Even a pastor is fairly distant from the average Catholic in a larger parish.
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