How do you reconcile matters of concience with church law?

[Abira]

I have a question:

How do you make a decision when your concience says to do one thing and yet all guidance from the church says another? If someone disagreed with a church teaching and followed their conscience…should the church support them if they believe that their conscience has lead them to a certain decision?

How can we always follow our concience in matters of faith, or any other matter?

Why does the church even give guidance if we are to follow our conscience?

 

[LilyM]

I have a question:

How do you make a decision when your concience says to do one thing and yet all guidance from the church says another? If someone disagreed with a church teaching and followed their conscience…should the church support them if they believe that their conscience has lead them to a certain decision?

How can we always follow our concience in matters of faith, or any other matter?

Why does the church even give guidance if we are to follow our conscience?

We always follow what is called our ‘well-formed’ or ‘informed’ conscience.

In other words where church teaching is explicit on a matter we accept its guidance, being superior to our own private judgement. So our own private opinion never trumps Church law or teaching.

Of course there are plenty of areas where church teaching leaves us free to judge best for ourselves as well.

 

[teachccd]

Typically when we follow our conscience contrary to Church teaching we only accomodate ourselves. The Church was left by Christ and is guided by the Holy Spirit to be with us until Christ comes again. We have to ask ourselves why we are not in union with a certain teaching. Does it cramp our lifestyle? Is it imposing on our “right” to choose for ourselves?

The Church, like Christ, stands firm in the areas of faith and morals. Jesus never took away our free will or told us not to use our conscience. But that’s the point. Our consciece is formed by experience and Church teachings if we truly believe that our Church is the one true Church founded by Christ.

So if we turn from Christ we call that sin. Christ is present in the Church ( the Mystical Body of Christ). Therefore, every problem one has with the Church lies within themselves. If this seems arrogant see John 14:6. No room for moving around there…teachccd

 

[Abira]

lol, ok this is maybe where my anglican upbringing comes into play.

i think maybe because there are so many different ways, I can’t see how the church can allow choices with informed conscience etc, and then tell us how to live at the same time.

So essentially, does the church believe that those who go against church teaching have been mistaken?

or are there times when people within the church have lead the church, through their conscience, in line with the holy spirit?

Can ‘normal’ people lead the churhc in this way, or is it their duty to only follow?

S

 

[teachccd]

I have a question:

How do you make a decision when your concience says to do one thing and yet all guidance from the church says another? If someone disagreed with a church teaching and followed their conscience…should the church support them if they believe that their conscience has lead them to a certain decision?

How can we always follow our concience in matters of faith, or any other matter?

Why does the church even give guidance if we are to follow our conscience?

Maybe an example could help here even if it doesn’t reflect your situation… Are we talking abortion or should I visit my parents more often??

 

[Abira]

lol, i was actually thinking about just a conflict of interest.

is there ever a occassion where a person could morally obey their conscience and not church teaching?

like: leaving the catholic church…

erm…divorce, but yeah whichever example really…though abortion’s a bit contentious

S

 

[teachccd]

lol, ok this is maybe where my anglican upbringing comes into play.

Can ‘normal’ people lead the churhc in this way, or is it their duty to only follow?

Church leaders are not abnormal. But I know what you mean. An example would really help here. We do have the ability to make decisions but those that are contrary to Church teachings are contrary to Christ. The Church aligns Herself with the morals that Christ Himself taught and the Holy Spirit continues to teach.

What would be one example of where your conscience would lead you away from Church teachings? Maybe that would better indicate your dilemma. God Bless…teachccd

 

[teachccd]

lol, i was actually thinking about just a conflict of interest.

is there ever a occassion where a person could morally obey their conscience and not church teaching?

like: leaving the catholic church…

erm…divorce, but yeah whichever example really…though abortion’s a bit contentious

S

Leaving the Church is a biggie. But then I would have to say that if one resolves themselves to leaving the Church then they never realized the Church as being the perpetuation of Christ until He comes again. One would not realize the papacy as the vicar of Christ. So if one were to leave the Church, Church teachings wouldn’t even matter to them.

All other issues, if one believes in the Church as founded by Christ and guided by the Holy Spirit, would be aligned with the teachings of Christ. So in the case of divorce, what does Christ say about divorce?? We cannot utilize our conscience to move away from Christ. If we do it’s sin.

The Church teaches Christ and cannot move with contemporary times when we are concerned with morality. Christ never said that in a thousand years from now divorce would be accepted. Instead He said that whatever God has joined let no man pull apart.

So, in closing, I would just have to say that if you replace the term “Church” for Christ then you might see the window of opportunity your conscience has in seeking your actions…God Bless

P.S. Everywhere in my above post where I used the term Church I was referring the Catholic Church, (Roman and Eastern)

 

[clmowry]

I don’t think you can make any sense of it talking about the abstract concept.

In general: If the Chruch teaches it is wrong, it is wrong. Your concience is misinformed and you need to study and pray on the issue and understand where you’ve gone wrong in your belief.

I could, however, see certain situations where your concience could be right and it’s your understanding of Chruch teaching that is wrong.

I could also see situations where the “Church” is wrong and your concience is correct and the Chruch needs to be corrected.

While this would ever be the case in terms of Chruch dogma it could be the case for some discipline or “tradition” with a small t.

For example oposition to the abuse and selling of indulgences. This could have been considered a “church law” that needed to be corrected.

I think 99.9% of the time it’s simply a matter of understanding and following what the Church teaches. So assume this is the case until you have compelling evidence to believe otherwise. And then take it up with the Bishop.

I think the areas where you are likely to find the most “discent” along these lines comes in the area of birth control and reproductive medicine.

Folks can quickly confuse their “feelings” on a subject with a correctly informed concience and it becomes very difficult for them to understand the Churches teaching on the particular practice in question.

Chuck

 

[teachccd]

I don’t think you can make any sense of it talking about the abstract concept.

In general: If the Chruch teaches it is wrong, it is wrong. Your concience is misinformed and you need to study and pray on the issue and understand where you’ve gone wrong in your belief.

I could, however, see certain situations where your concience could be right and it’s your understanding of Chruch teaching that is wrong.

I could also see situations where the “Church” is wrong and your concience is correct and the Chruch needs to be corrected.

While this would ever be the case in terms of Chruch dogma it could be the case for some discipline or “tradition” with a small t.

For example oposition to the abuse and selling of indulgences. This could have been considered a “church law” that needed to be corrected.

I think 99.9% of the time it’s simply a matter of understanding and following what the Church teaches. So assume this is the case until you have compelling evidence to believe otherwise. And then take it up with the Bishop.

I think the areas where you are likely to find the most “discent” along these lines comes in the area of birth control and reproductive medicine.

Folks can quickly confuse their “feelings” on a subject with a correctly informed concience and it becomes very difficult for them to understand the Churches teaching on the particular practice in question.

Chuck

Another good way to put it:thumbsup: Remember, the OP is a member of the Anglican Church (from profile) so we may not be sure where he derives his concern for the teachings of Catholicism. But I asked a couple of times for a more direct example to remove any abstract thoughts. God Bless…teachccd

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Why does the church even give guidance if we are to follow our conscience?

If we are on a learning curve and disagree with the Church then that is an understandable stage in growing in our understanding.

If we are on a power trip and disagree with the Church then that is an indicator that we no longer belong in the Church.

 

[teachccd]

If we are on a learning curve and disagree with the Church then that is an understandable stage in growing in our understanding.

If we are on a power trip and disagree with the Church then that is an indicator that we no longer belong in the Church.

Succinctly expressed…

 

[Abira]

Another good way to put it:thumbsup: Remember, the OP is a member of the Anglican Church (from profile) so we may not be sure where he derives his concern for the teachings of Catholicism. But I asked a couple of times for a more direct example to remove any abstract thoughts. God Bless…teachccd

ok… so your feelings and an informed concience are two different things?

well I’m anglican by upbringing… and female lol…

erm, I’ve been reading about Catholicism for about six months now and was thinking of attending a service. I bought a copy of the catechism and was reading parts of it that didn’t make sense to me.

I didn’t want to give defined examples cos they link to a lot of ground already covered on the forum

but basically i have issues with natural law… and marian devotions… and even some church dogma on the matter… does that haelp?

 

[Tom]

ok… so your feelings and an informed concience are two different things? well I’m anglican by upbringing… and female lol… erm, I’ve been reading about Catholicism for about six months now and was thinking of attending a service. I bought a copy of the catechism and was reading parts of it that didn’t make sense to me.
I didn’t want to give defined examples cos they link to a lot of ground already covered on the forum
but basically i have issues with natural law… and marian devotions… and even some church dogma on the matter… does that haelp?

Can I take just one, Marian devotions, and give you my personal experience?
I am what one could call a “cradle Catholic”, born and raised Catholic. I never really questioned the faith, I just took it as it was taught to me. I was never challenged by others to defend the faith, so I never really had a need to study. It wasn’t until adulthood that I was really challenged. I moved to the southern U.S. (from Texas, which is definitely not “the south”) in 1981, that’s 26 years ago. It was here in the “Bible belt” that I first encountered anti-Catholicism. I never even realized anyone hated Catholics! So it was here I first needed to research. The question arose about a “new” title for Mary. “Co-redemtrix”, my anti-Catholic friends of course said the Church was elevating her to a deity. Quite frankly, seeing this title gave me serious concern for the Catholic faith, I mean it sounds like a “Co”-God doesn’t it? All I knew was, it didn’t sound right. So there I was questioning a Church “teaching”. When we’re confronted with such a situation we need to be humble. We need to research, (this is where the “informed” comes from) find out the “real” story. The official teaching, is it doctrine? Is it official? What does it say and mean?
After research, I found that, no, the Catholic Church was not elevating Mary to an equal of God, it was affirming her “Co”-operation. I still don’t like the term, but at least now I understand it, and I am not against its use.

 

[Abira]

ive read two books on marian devotion and ideas now and i find it so hard to accept some of it, I feel uncomfortable with most of it…

so the church would accept that even though I have trouble with these things, that I should accept that the church has a higher knowledge than me, and just keep trying to understand something?

what if a person never understands something?

S

 

[THurifer2]

The Conscience is a pupil not a Teacher - St. Augustine

 

[Tom]

ive read two books on marian devotion and ideas now and i find it so hard to accept some of it, I feel uncomfortable with most of it…

O.K. first, I have no idea which books, but I’d like to make a point. Simply because a Catholic author (even the pope) writes something, that doesn’t make it a Catholic “Teaching”. I’ve read books authored by Catholic priests which were absolutely un-Catholic in there views.

 

[Tom]

so the church would accept that even though I have trouble with these things, that I should accept that the church has a higher knowledge than me, and just keep trying to understand something?

If the issues are doctrines, yes accept them with faith, if they are opinions, again even from the pope, you don’t need to accept them, read, understand why, if you disagree fine.

 

[Tom]

what if a person never understands something?

I will never understand many things about God, His physical presence in the Eucharist, His infinite love, but I firmly believe them.

 

[clmowry]

Again, it depends upon the particular subject. No one is obliged by the Chruch to have a Marian Devotion.

So if you feel uncomfortable asking for her intercession, then you are not obliged to do so.

That said, your professing someone’s Marian Devotion to be wrong because you are uncomfortable with it would not be appropriate either as long as they are not in conflict with Church teaching.

Chuck

ive read two books on marian devotion and ideas now and i find it so hard to accept some of it, I feel uncomfortable with most of it…

so the church would accept that even though I have trouble with these things, that I should accept that the church has a higher knowledge than me, and just keep trying to understand something?

what if a person never understands something?

S