How do you tell a priest you love that you didn't love his mass?

[Eli4n4]

He is a new priest, and when I visited his parish he asked me what I thought of the style of the youth mass I attended. He told me he knew it was a little different and wanted to get my opinion but beforehand he seemed so enthusiastic and excited about it that I feel like if I told him the truth I’d break his heart!

I could be wrong here, but I feel that the EWTN daily masses are as close to the way it should be as possible.

Please help me understand which of these really are ok to have at mass in case I am being too critical.

• there was a huge “risen Jesus” cross in the middle instead of a crucifix
• the Tabernacle was off to the side
• after the Lamb of God all the people stayed standing until they received (I had to kneel…this one really bothered me)
• they read a clip of history about where and when and who wrote that particular reading before each reading sort of putting it in context (not before the Gospel though)
• the music was performed by a band and the hymns were by famous catholic pop stars(granted they were really good…but a band?)
• during many of the parts of mass where the priest was talking there was “background” music
• the congregation raised a hand over the newly consecrated Hosts almost as if their blessing Him could make Him anymore present than He already was…
• after communion but before the final blessing, they took a moment to pass on the “Elijah Cup” from one family to the next (I haven’t heard of this before)
• after mass they applauded (again the band was really good…but that is not the point)

I feel horrible…I love this priest…but I don’t think the right way to touch teens hearts is through dramatization of the mass. sure…in a way it reaches them because teens (even a lot of adults) sometimes are drawn to drama…but I guess what I’m saying is that I wish everyone understood that Mass feels good because of how holy it is…it is not holy because of how good it feels. So what do I tell my priest friend???

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Hi,

Perhaps you can emphasize how good this Mass is for teens. Try to find something you like, and talk about that. If you were moved by his homily, this is an excellent way to encourage him.

If he presses you, try to gently tell him that you personally prefer a more traditional Mass, but it was great for that style of Mass. (I don’t know about that cup—that may be a little over the line. I would ask about that.)

Lux

 

[Nickkname]

He is a new priest, and when I visited his parish he asked me what I thought of the style of the youth mass I attended. He told me he knew it was a little different and wanted to get my opinion but beforehand he seemed so enthusiastic and excited about it that I feel like if I told him the truth I’d break his heart!

I could be wrong here, but I feel that the EWTN daily masses are as close to the way it should be as possible.

Please help me understand which of these really are ok to have at mass in case I am being too critical.

• there was a huge “risen Jesus” cross in the middle instead of a crucifix
• the Tabernacle was off to the side
• after the Lamb of God all the people stayed standing until they received (I had to kneel…this one really bothered me)
• they read a clip of history about where and when and who wrote that particular reading before each reading sort of putting it in context (not before the Gospel though)
• the music was performed by a band and the hymns were by famous catholic pop stars(granted they were really good…but a band?)
• during many of the parts of mass where the priest was talking there was “background” music
• the congregation raised a hand over the newly consecrated Hosts almost as if their blessing Him could make Him anymore present than He already was…
• after communion but before the final blessing, they took a moment to pass on the “Elijah Cup” from one family to the next (I haven’t heard of this before)
• after mass they applauded (again the band was really good…but that is not the point)

I feel horrible…I love this priest…but I don’t think the right way to touch teens hearts is through dramatization of the mass. sure…in a way it reaches them because teens (even a lot of adults) sometimes are drawn to drama…but I guess what I’m saying is that I wish everyone understood that Mass feels good because of how holy it is…it is not holy because of how good it feels. So what do I tell my priest friend???

Tell him the truth gently and charitably. You can do this by the grace of God!

And familiarize yourself with the Mass, so if liturgical abuses do pop up, you’ll know to report them.

 

[bpbasilphx]

How do you tell a priest you love that you didn’t love his mass?

It’s not HIS mass. It’s the CHURCH’S mass.

 

[Cinette]

He is a new priest, and when I visited his parish he asked me what I thought of the style of the youth mass I attended. He told me he knew it was a little different and wanted to get my opinion but beforehand he seemed so enthusiastic and excited about it that I feel like if I told him the truth I’d break his heart!

I could be wrong here, but I feel that the EWTN daily masses are as close to the way it should be as possible.

Please help me understand which of these really are ok to have at mass in case I am being too critical.

• there was a huge “risen Jesus” cross in the middle instead of a crucifixThat is nice - not a bad thing
• the Tabernacle was off to the sideThis is because the Priest should not have his back to Jesus during Mass
• after the Lamb of God all the people stayed standing until they received (I had to kneel…this one really bothered me)Much more reference if one kneels I would think
• they read a clip of history about where and when and who wrote that particular reading before each reading sort of putting it in context (not before the Gospel though)If short it is OK I think
• the music was performed by a band and the hymns were by famous catholic pop stars(granted they were really good…but a band?)Would that be guitars or do you also have drums??? At Communion time the music should be soft and not strumming as the youth like to do because we should be praying and contemplating
• during many of the parts of mass where the priest was talking there was “background” musicif it is soft no harm done
• the congregation raised a hand over the newly consecrated Hosts almost as if their blessing Him could make Him anymore present than He already was…THAT is weird – absolutely. I would object
• after communion but before the final blessing, they took a moment to pass on the “Elijah Cup” from one family to the next (I haven’t heard of this before)Weird !
• after mass they applauded (again the band was really good…but that is not the point)sounds like the end of a concert – something you would expect from a Protestant service. Not a Mass

I feel horrible…I love this priest…but I don’t think the right way to touch teens hearts is through dramatization of the mass. sure…in a way it reaches them because teens (even a lot of adults) sometimes are drawn to drama…but I guess what I’m saying is that I wish everyone understood that Mass feels good because of how holy it is…it is not holy because of how good it feels. So what do I tell my priest friend???

I think you should speak to your Priest. If he is a nice person and is mature enough he will see your point of view.

This kind of thing is what I have heard a Priest refer to as “coffee table Mass”.

Good luck. If he is a nice guy he should understand - youth are not kids and are smarter than he thinks

 

[Dempsey1919]

He asked for your opinion, so I would give him it. However, remember that it’s not so much what you say but how you say it. Perhaps you could use this as a chance to introduce this priest to the New Liturgical Movement headed by the Holy Father? I think teens would prefer reverent, traditional Masses with incense and Gregorian Chant. I know I would have liked this as a teen!

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

He is a new priest, and when I visited his parish he asked me what I thought of the style of the youth mass I attended. He told me he knew it was a little different and wanted to get my opinion but beforehand he seemed so enthusiastic and excited about it that I feel like if I told him the truth I’d break his heart!

I could be wrong here, but I feel that the EWTN daily masses are as close to the way it should be as possible.

Please help me understand which of these really are ok to have at mass in case I am being too critical.

• there was a huge “risen Jesus” cross in the middle instead of a crucifix
• the Tabernacle was off to the side
• after the Lamb of God all the people stayed standing until they received (I had to kneel…this one really bothered me)
• they read a clip of history about where and when and who wrote that particular reading before each reading sort of putting it in context (not before the Gospel though)
• the music was performed by a band and the hymns were by famous catholic pop stars(granted they were really good…but a band?)
• during many of the parts of mass where the priest was talking there was “background” music
• the congregation raised a hand over the newly consecrated Hosts almost as if their blessing Him could make Him anymore present than He already was…
• after communion but before the final blessing, they took a moment to pass on the “Elijah Cup” from one family to the next (I haven’t heard of this before)
• after mass they applauded (again the band was really good…but that is not the point)

I feel horrible…I love this priest…but I don’t think the right way to touch teens hearts is through dramatization of the mass. sure…in a way it reaches them because teens (even a lot of adults) sometimes are drawn to drama…but I guess what I’m saying is that I wish everyone understood that Mass feels good because of how holy it is…it is not holy because of how good it feels. So what do I tell my priest friend???

How can a person not love the Mass no matter how badly it is celebrated?

 

[japhy]

(I can provide you with documentation for the points below if necessary.)

He is a new priest, and when I visited his parish he asked me what I thought of the style of the youth mass I attended.

Are priests still being taught to customize the liturgy like this? Will he celebrate Mass for old people differently? For married couples? For singles?

• there was a huge “risen Jesus” cross in the middle instead of a crucifix
• the Tabernacle was off to the side

Those are probably factors of the church space, not the particular Mass he celebrated. A crucifix is required in the sanctuary, but the rules don’t require it to be the biggest cross-like thing in there. In other words, a small crucifix off to the side of the altar counts, while being absolutely dwarfed by the giant “resurrectifix” behind the altar. The tabernacle should be in plain sight when a person enters the church, and it should preferably be in the sanctuary somewhere, although it is not absolutely required to be next to or behind the altar.

• after the Lamb of God all the people stayed standing until they received (I had to kneel…this one really bothered me)

That is up to the bishop. The bishop of a diocese can decide whether people should remain standing after the Lamb of God has been sung/said. The default in the United States is to kneel, unless the bishop has decided otherwise.

• they read a clip of history about where and when and who wrote that particular reading before each reading sort of putting it in context (not before the Gospel though)

Who is “they”? The priest is permitted to give a brief introduction to the Mass being celebrated (i.e. what saint, feast, etc.) and the readings (i.e. who the author is, who is being written to, etc.), but these are not to be like mini-homilies.

• the music was performed by a band and the hymns were by famous catholic pop stars(granted they were really good…but a band?)

Ugh. Why not introduce teens to the classical music of the Church, Gregorian chant? Or at least to chant in English? Why must the latest and “greatest” pop songs be what makes the Mass relevant and meaningful to teens (or people in general)?

• during many of the parts of mass where the priest was talking there was “background” music

That is NOT permitted.

• the congregation raised a hand over the newly consecrated Hosts almost as if their blessing Him could make Him anymore present than He already was…

That is NOT permitted. The laity are not permitted to act in a consecratory manner during the Mass. The role of the priest and the role of the laity are not to be intermingled or confused like that.

• after communion but before the final blessing, they took a moment to pass on the “Elijah Cup” from one family to the next (I haven’t heard of this before)

Neither have I. What is this? Did they drink from it? We’re not celebrating the old Passover at Mass anymore, we celebrate the new Passover. “I tell you that Elijah has already come.” (Matthew 17:12) Mass is not the time for eating and drinking anything other than the Precious Body and Blood.

• after mass they applauded (again the band was really good…but that is not the point)

I guess so long as it happened after Mass, it can be seen as somewhat appropriate, but the “band” is not playing to entertain the people. The music during the Mass is about God; it is not a concert.

So what do I tell my priest friend?

Tell him, with great charity and reverence and patience, that you think he should celebrate Mass more closely to the way which the Church instructs him to. If he presses you for a reason, ask if you can make up or change parts of the Mass according to how you feel or who the priest celebrating it is.

The bottom line is that priests do not have the right to change the liturgy willy-nilly. The varieties and options that exist are limited and most of them are found right in the Roman Missal and the General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM).

Perhaps you can emphasize how good this Mass is for teens.

How will this style of Mass help teens get used to the proper celebration of Mass?

If he presses you, try to gently tell him that you personally prefer a more traditional Mass, but it was great for that style of Mass.

I entirely disagree.

 

[japhy]

Ok, I did some googling on the “Elijah Cup”, and it appears to be related to praying for vocations to the priesthood (so it can’t be all that bad, I guess).
Starting February 24, 2008 at the 9:30 am Mass, our parish will start praying for vocations with the “Elijah Cup”. Praying for vocations is a responsibility and privilege of the Church. The “Elijah Cup” is a chalice that will be presented to a family each Sunday at the conclusion of Mass. That family will take the “Elijah Cup” home and use it as a focal point while praying daily for an increase in religious vocations. …

Each week at Sunday Mass, the celebrant will use the Elijah Cup as the chalice or a precious blood cup. After purifying the Elijah Cup at the end of Communion, he calls a family, individual, or couple forward to receive the Elijah Cup. They receive a blessing and take the cup home, putting it in a place of honor.

Each day for a week, during prayer time (morning, bedtime or at meals), they pray for an increase and perseverance of vocations. The following Sunday they return the Elijah Cup with the gifts of bread and wine at the Offertory.
It also requires the priest to purify the chalice during Mass (something that far too often is illegally relegated to laypeople). I hope the families are told not to use the chalice for anything at all (since it is consecrated to be used at Mass alone). I would also be of the opinion that the “Elijah cup” ritual should happen after the dismissal of Mass, not before it. But that’s just me, I guess.

 

[Eli4n4]

How can a person not love the Mass no matter how badly it is celebrated?

I guess I didn’t mean it that way…just made it short enough to fit in the title. I read your profile…you’re exactly the kind of person I’d like an opinion from.

 

[hilde_the_dog]

I not certain but many people here think that young people will just fall in love with gregorian chants and maybe load it on their ipods. Not likely. I may love it, my wife does not. A friend of my neighbor who is about 60 likes to hear me play while I wash the cars but not any one else.

This mass is not for me but there certainly seem to be bigger fish to fry. I agree with Japhy. Seriously I wish we as a Church would take more time to explain the historical context of the readings. My guess is 99% of the Catholics in the pews have little historical context for the readings. Somebody must teach in the church.

 

[Eli4n4]

(I can provide you with documentation for the points below if necessary.)

Are priests still being taught to customize the liturgy like this? Will he celebrate Mass for old people differently? For married couples? For singles?

well in this case I can almost understand why…it’s because this parish specializes in youth ministry and they have an AMAZING program for them. They have a lot of vocations coming out of the program there, but I think if the mass was more traditional they’d have even more.

Those are probably factors of the church space, not the particular Mass he celebrated. A crucifix is required in the sanctuary, but the rules don’t require it to be the biggest cross-like thing in there. In other words, a small crucifix off to the side of the altar counts, while being absolutely dwarfed by the giant “resurrectifix” behind the altar. The tabernacle should be in plain sight when a person enters the church, and it should preferably be in the sanctuary somewhere, although it is not absolutely required to be next to or behind the altar.

**there was a tiny crucifix way of to the left behind all the pews. and then there was a tiny one on the altar once mass started. I couldn’t find the tabernacle till during mass. I think because it was made of glass in the middle of a stain glass window off to the side so it was kinda camouflaged at first. **

That is up to the bishop. The bishop of a diocese can decide whether people should remain standing after the Lamb of God has been sung/said. The default in the United States is to kneel, unless the bishop has decided otherwise.

every church I go to in this diocese does the kneeling/standing thing differently.

Who is “they”? The priest is permitted to give a brief introduction to the Mass being celebrated (i.e. what saint, feast, etc.) and the readings (i.e. who the author is, who is being written to, etc.), but these are not to be like mini-homilies.

the first thing i thought when I heard them was “these are like mini homilies” but they were short…and it was the priest who read them right before each reading. so is that ok? it seemed like a good thing at first but then with everything else I was like kinda overwhelmed

Ugh. Why not introduce teens to the classical music of the Church, Gregorian chant? Or at least to chant in English? Why must the latest and “greatest” pop songs be what makes the Mass relevant and meaningful to teens (or people in general)?

I agree…I mean it sounded really good…but it was uncomfortable…and I was always under the impression that it was supposed to feel like you were sitting in a royal throne room…not so much like your best buddy’s living room

 

[Eli4n4]

I not certain but many people here think that young people will just fall in love with gregorian chants and maybe load it on their ipods. Not likely. I may love it, my wife does not. A friend of my neighbor who is about 60 likes to hear me play while I wash the cars but not any one else.

This mass is not for me but there certainly seem to be bigger fish to fry. I agree with Japhy. Seriously I wish we as a Church would take more time to explain the historical context of the readings. My guess is 99% of the Catholics in the pews have little historical context for the readings. Somebody must teach in the church.

I love Gregorian chant…and I do know some my age and younger that have it loaded in their I-Pods (ironically since you said that)

You’re right though…just like I’m uncomfortable with the super-cool feel good pop music during mass…I’m sure people would feel uncomfy with greg-chant. But there are so many beautiful hymns in the adoramus hymnal that would be great…or even if they made the pop songs sound more like hymns just for the mass with an organ or at least something other than a pop star band with drums. They had really good voices…why not just sing it with no instruments

 

[Eli4n4]

Hi,

Perhaps you can emphasize how good this Mass is for teens. Try to find something you like, and talk about that. If you were moved by his homily, this is an excellent way to encourage him.

If he presses you, try to gently tell him that you personally prefer a more traditional Mass, but it was great for that style of Mass. (I don’t know about that cup—that may be a little over the line. I would ask about that.)

Lux

I think that everything they did at this mass was wonderful for teens…I just don’t think that any of it should be done during the mass. Mass is mass…and teens should love mass because it is holy…not because it caters to them. Their youth program is awesome…and I just feel that all that stuff should happen there and not in mass.

 

[japhy]

well in this case I can almost understand why…it’s because this parish specializes in youth ministry and they have an AMAZING program for them. They have a lot of vocations coming out of the program there, but I think if the mass was more traditional they’d have even more.

I would certainly agree.

there was a tiny crucifix way of to the left behind all the pews. and then there was a tiny one on the altar once mass started. I couldn’t find the tabernacle till during mass. I think because it was made of glass in the middle of a stain glass window off to the side so it was kinda camouflaged at first.

Tiny crucifix, gigantic superman-Jesus. It’s nice that there was a crucifix on the altar, though. And camouflaged tabernacles are a disappointment. Why should a person have to hunt for it?

every church I go to in this diocese does the kneeling/standing thing differently.

Assuming all the churches have kneelers, they should be consistent in whether kneeling happens after the Lamb of God. I would email, call, or write your bishop’s office and ask them what posture the bishop has decided on for your diocese.

the first thing i thought when I heard them was “these are like mini homilies” but they were short…and it was the priest who read them right before each reading. so is that ok? it seemed like a good thing at first but then with everything else I was like kinda overwhelmed

The priest reading brief introductions to the readings is permissible.

Part of the problem with the introductions is that the Mass ends up being a gab-fest. If you are at all familiar with the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite (the so-called Traditional Latin Mass or Tridentine Mass), you’ll realize there is a stark contrast in the amount of talking. In the Ordinary Form, there is talking almost constantly. To fill the small amounts of silence (in between readings, for example) with more talking is a shame.

 

[Cinette]

How can a person not love the Mass no matter how badly it is celebrated?

Fr 13 years I attended Mass with my husband (who only converted 3 years ago) The Priest was “creative” and “imaginative” and communion was with pizza bread and and and and… for a time we enjoyed it very much but then we began to grow in our Faith and then one day my husband said enough and that was it. My husband was received into the Church at that Parish and I miss the parishioners very much.

We just had to move on.

 

[Joan_M]

Ok, I did some googling on the “Elijah Cup”, and it appears to be related to praying for vocations to the priesthood (so it can’t be all that bad, I guess).
Each week at Sunday Mass, the celebrant will use the Elijah Cup as the chalice or a precious blood cup. After purifying the Elijah Cup at the end of Communion, he calls a family, individual, or couple forward to receive the Elijah Cup. They receive a blessing and take the cup home, putting it in a place of honor.

It also requires the priest to purify the chalice during Mass (something that far too often is illegally relegated to laypeople). I hope the families are told not to use the chalice for anything at all (since it is consecrated to be used at Mass alone). I would also be of the opinion that the “Elijah cup” ritual should happen after the dismissal of Mass, not before it. But that’s just me, I guess.

I am at work and do not have the resources to back this up, BUT, to my knowledge it is never permissible to use a chalice that has been used at Mass for this. It should be a chalice purchased for this purpose and never used for a Mass.

 

[argerlach]

The original post describes a typical Life Teen mass. It’s all the rage in the Diocese of St. Petersburg, FL. The Latin mass is discouraged by our bishop. Oh, well. At least, the pope seems to be a good Catholic.

 

[Eli4n4]

The original post describes a typical Life Teen mass. It’s all the rage in the Diocese of St. Petersburg, FL. The Latin mass is discouraged by our bishop. Oh, well. At least, the pope seems to be a good Catholic.

Realllly now…that’s a little suspicious since their youth program is Life Teen…I’m in diocese of Orlando FL. Maybe this wasn’t his idea after all then…?

 

[japhy]

Realllly now…that’s a little suspicious since their youth program is Life Teen…I’m in diocese of Orlando FL. Maybe this wasn’t his idea after all then…?

There are some places where Life Teen is integrated into the proper celebration of the Mass. But there are other places where Life Teen seems to find the true liturgy of the Church a hindrance; new practices (many of which were already illegal) are (re)introduced, proper practices are thwarted, and the Mass ends up looking like the product of the people who showed up that day, rather than a divine liturgy in which we are taking part.