I’m actually pretty hopeful for the West because almost all of my Roman Catholic friends (college-age) have spiritual directors, and spiritual direction is very readily available at my school. Spiritual direction is a slightly different concept than our discipleship and spiritual fatherhood, but it’s more authentically Western.
Nominally, the same as in the west: for a child, to remind you and/or your parents when you are not living the faith, and to help your parents teach you the faith.
Wow, great response! I found this information so helpful. I think it’s very interesting how you mention the emphasis on doing things a particular number of times (3) in the Eastern Rites…that’s very similar to many parts of the Traditional Latin liturgy. Out of curiosity, have you ever been to a Latin Mass? I would love to attend a Byzantine mass just to see.
I LOVE the Traditional Latin Mass. Only thing I love better is my own Liturgy.
I especially love the Liturgy of the Hours and Mass as said by the traditional Benedictines of Clear Creek - it has very Eastern feel to it, as does all traditional contemplative monasticism. (They also have Russian icons all over the narthex which they sell to fund the construction of their church.)
).I’ve seen videos of Eastern Liturgies on youtube, but I’ve never seen one in real life. In this HEAVILY Protestant area, we’re lucky to actually have a Catholic presence at all; luckily the city has a big Catholic cluster and the TLM is available. And a new TLM just started not too far away, which I think is fantastic.I LOVE the Traditional Latin Mass. Only thing I love better is my own Liturgy.
Our Lady is usually referred to as the Theotokos (Mother of God), or sometimes as the Panagia (the All-Holy), but it’s usually only icons rather than Our Lady herself that have individual titles - for example, “the Virgin of Vladimir”, or the “Kazan Mother of God”. The main Marian apparition venerated in the East is celebrated on a feast called “The Protecting Veil of the Theotokos”, or the “Pokrova” (somebody correct me if that’s the wrong name, or is in the wrong declension, or something - I don’t actually speak Slavonic
At our church we have Our Lady of Perpetual Help as well, but I don’t know how Eastern that really is…it’s also quite popular in Italy.Book I, Chaper III, Proof that there is a God, Saint John Damascene:
I have been to many Latin Masses. I love it too.
The original icon of Our Lady of Perpetual Help was written in Greece, where it is known under the name “Theotokos of the Passion”.I’ve seen videos of Eastern Liturgies on youtube, but I’ve never seen one in real life. In this HEAVILY Protestant area, we’re lucky to actually have a Catholic presence at all; luckily the city has a big Catholic cluster and the TLM is available. And a new TLM just started not too far away, which I think is fantastic.
So, would you say there is more of an emphasis on apparitions in the Western church than in the East?
I have the Virgin of Kazan icon. It’s very small, the one I have, but very beautiful.
Sorry! I tend to jump in and answer questions addressed to other people.
No worries you said what I would have said anyways!Sorry! I tend to jump in and answer questions addressed to other people.
I didn’t expect there to be, though. The closest we have is a Greek Orthodox church somewhere in the city…but obviously it isn’t Catholic, so it’s not close at all.
)Statues were used very long ago. Iconoclasm was the cause of the demise that caused Byzantine art not to progress. The Russian Orthodox have also developed wood carving. I have seen one original ivory Byzantine statue like this, in a museum:Unfortunately there isn’t a single Byzantine Catholic church anywhere in my area.
Anyway; I was reading about the use of icons in Eastern liturgies and came across the claim that statues aren’t used in Orthodox churches because of the belief that no one can depict the divine as a statue–basically that statues shouldn’t be used and only flat images are appropriate. Is this true? I’m very interested to hear thoughts on this big difference between the east and the west in terms of church “decoration” (not the proper word, but I can’t think of what else to call it…ornamentation?
The Greek Orthodox should use the exact same liturgy minus the prayers for the Pope in three of the litanies, though in practice they sometimes take lots of shortcuts. We are allowed to fill our Sunday obligation at any church where the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass or Divine Liturgy is said, including Orthodox churches - legitimate reasons given by the Pope for going to an Orthodox church are pretty liberal and broad, and specifically include “the desire to be better informed”, which would certainly count in your case.Unfortunately there isn’t a single Byzantine Catholic church anywhere in my area.
The reason why statues are absolutely forbidden in all Eastern Catholic and Orthodox churches is that what is depicted is not the fallen earthly, humanly reality, but rather the transfigured, “deified”, heavenly reality. Hence to depict something three-dimensional or realistic-looking for us would be to deny the transfiguration of the world through divine grace.Anyway; I was reading about the use of icons in Eastern liturgies and came across the claim that statues aren’t used in Orthodox churches because of the belief that no one can depict the divine as a statue–basically that statues shouldn’t be used and only flat images are appropriate. Is this true? I’m very interested to hear thoughts on this big difference between the east and the west in terms of church “decoration” (not the proper word, but I can’t think of what else to call it…ornamentation?
You said it better than I did.
Some Orthodox I know have never heard of the Western Rite Orthodox, will flat out deny their existence, and/or insist that any possession or physical proximity to a statue is Roman Catholic and therefore idolatrous.
How did iconoclasm prevent the progress of statuary in the Byzantine world, especially if the only Byzantine example of a statue to the Theotokos was carved two to three hundred years after the Triumph of Holy Orthodoxy?
Thats the quick and simple explanation for it. But really it just reflects the view of the East vs. the West. The West hopes to humanize the image Jesus and the saints. The objective is to tell us they were on earth, therefore we can be as holy as they are. They walked the ground we walked, they ate food as we do. In 3D such as statues, we see them as physical, as we see ourselves and other people. We are made to realize that we too in this life can be holy as they were on earth.Unfortunately there isn’t a single Byzantine Catholic church anywhere in my area.
Anyway; I was reading about the use of icons in Eastern liturgies and came across the claim that statues aren’t used in Orthodox churches because of the belief that no one can depict the divine as a statue–basically that statues shouldn’t be used and only flat images are appropriate. Is this true? I’m very interested to hear thoughts on this big difference between the east and the west in terms of church “decoration” (not the proper word, but I can’t think of what else to call it…ornamentation?