How do you transform a happy-clappy parish into a conservative one?

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lepanto said:
How do you transform a happy-clappy parish into a conservative (orthodox, traditional) one?

How can this be done, assuming that most people are satisfied with status quo and probably don’t know anything else?

What can the priest do?

What can the faithful do?

(Of course, changing the mindset of the people is much more difficult than simply installing a reredo.)

I’m not talking transforming NO to TLM, but happy-clappy NO to the NO that Vatican II intended, along with greater devotional life and practices.

:confused: :confused: :confused:
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Tell the liberals to put up or shut up.

So you arrange various things which trendies cannot dissent from, like say a series of interchanges with the local mosque, or a fairtrade group, but which involve a certain amount of effort on their part

If they are supported, fine, you’ve got a viable parish there. But generally the problem is that real commitment, real community, real devotion is low, and has been replaced by a sham and pretence. Put up or shut up policies expose that. The problem isn’t lots of radical but borderline heretical liberals running over the place, it is just a dying parish, with liberal platitudes used as weasel words to conceal the truth of what is happening even from themselves. That’s exposed and acknowledged now. Try not to blame any individuals, and move on.
 
I completely understand, Malcolm.

Every parish in my Diocese whines about the vocation shortage, but yet they don’t want to do anything about it–priests included. They don’t want prayer groups, Eucharistic adoration (a priest I once greatly respected once said “what would you want that for?” about Adoration), or anything done for young people. We don’t even have a vocations director. The parish is almost entirely over sixty, and they just seem to want to live in an escapist world in which it is still 1975.

This morning at mass, our Senior choir (aged 60+) sang “Edelweiss” during the offertory. When they first began, I chuckled, thinking it was joke, but then, realizing it wasn’t, I had to fight back tears. Also, our priest begins his homily every Sunday with a little factual tidbit on the liturgy, which is usually a half-truth meant to prove to those with no knowledge of Tradition how terrible the mass was before 1970, and how wonderful the liturgy is now. This morning, I walked out of Mass wondering how much more of this the few devout Catholics in my Diocese are going to have to put up with.

The key to stopping problems is a good Bishop. My Bishop is an incurable liberal, so I don’t have his cooperation. However, he’s never in town, so the FSSP could probably come to the Cathedral and say Solemn High Mass every day for a year before he noticed. However, if you have a good Bishop, like Bishop Bruskewitz of Lincoln, Nebraska, or Bishop Grandin of Calgary, Alberta, you’re all set. The Bishop is supposed to be at the centre of the spiritual life of his Diocese, so if the Bishop is orthodox, chances are the effect will trickle downward.
 
Pious_Mat said:
My Bishop is an incurable liberal, so I don’t have his cooperation. However, he’s never in town, so the FSSP could probably come to the Cathedral and say Solemn High Mass every day for a year before he noticed.
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They should do it … 😛
 
jmcrae said:
Is the priest on-side? If he’s not, then forget it - wait for the next one. If so, then here are some things that could work:

Get the Rosary ladies (yes, you have some - they’re hiding out, right now, because all that hand-holding and Kumabaya stuff scares them silly) to pray the Rosary out loud for 20 minutes before every single Mass - meaning all the Sunday Masses and all the weekday Masses, and have them pray the Prayer of St. Michael at the end of every Rosary, just before the prayer for the dead. (And if they aren’t in the habit of praying the prayer for the dead at the end of every Rosary, then get them to do that, too.)

Start up First Friday Adoration, if you can - even if it’s just you and the priest for one hour after the Friday Mass, that’ll get the ball rolling - others will start to join you, and you’ll see great things start to happen.
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I’ve seen this plan in action. It works.
You’ve pretty much described St Louis Bertrand, and St Martin of Tours parishes in Louisville Ky. 👍
 
amontoya said:
I understand the need for, at times, silence in Mass, but I still see no reason to be unhappy about it. Shouldn’t we rejoice to sing the Gloria? Shouldn’t we rejoice to hear the Scriptures? Most of all, shouldn’t we rejoice to receive This Most Precious Gift from Our Savior? Maybe I’m wrong, but I can’t help but feel joy and happiness at Mass. 🤷 After being protestant for most of my life, and finally finding Christ in His Fullness, what I feel most, is happy.
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I agree, I consider mass to be a happy thing. However, I think one can have a more traditional mass which is upbeat - I don’t think the mass has to be happy-clappy (which to me has connotations of being upbeat in a shallow way), in order to be joyful.
 
jmcrae said:
Is the priest on-side? If he’s not, then forget it - wait for the next one. If so, then here are some things that could work:

Get the Rosary ladies (yes, you have some - they’re hiding out, right now, because all that hand-holding and Kumabaya stuff scares them silly) to pray the Rosary out loud for 20 minutes before every single Mass - meaning all the Sunday Masses and all the weekday Masses, and have them pray the Prayer of St. Michael at the end of every Rosary, just before the prayer for the dead. (And if they aren’t in the habit of praying the prayer for the dead at the end of every Rosary, then get them to do that, too.)

Start up First Friday Adoration, if you can - even if it’s just you and the priest for one hour after the Friday Mass, that’ll get the ball rolling - others will start to join you, and you’ll see great things start to happen.
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Great suggestions, (especially adoration), as were the ones about music.

I thought of something else, a lending library is good, diseminating free literature at the back of the church if its allowed, and all the correct catechesis possible. Alot of good booklets and devotionals can be attained in bulk for cheap.
 
Dauphin said:
Was Mary “happy and clappy” at the foot of the cross? Did those witnessing the Crucifixion dance around and sing happy songs?

At Mass, we are at Calvary. We are present at the Lord’s sacrifice - His very Flesh and Blood presented for us on the altar. At Mass, we should behave exactly as we would if we were at the Crucifixion.
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:eek:

That would be a downer now, wouldn’t it?

I get your point about not being “happy-clappy”, but doesn’t that sort of mindset leave out the joy we should feel that such a sacrifice has been made for our sake?

Unless I misunderstand your point…are you referring to being somber and taking the Eucharist seriously or referring to being sorrowful?
 
Newbie2 said:
:eek:

That would be a downer now, wouldn’t it?

I get your point about not being “happy-clappy”, but doesn’t that sort of mindset leave out the joy we should feel that such a sacrifice has been made for our sake?

Unless I misunderstand your point…are you referring to being somber and taking the Eucharist seriously or referring to being sorrowful?
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I think the key words that describe what we should strive for are:
solemn, reverent, and joyful.

“Happy” is a transitory feeling…here one moment and gone the next, whereas “joyful” is a profound state of one’s soul. One can be perfectly joyful without appearing to be “happy”.
 
Newbie2 said:
:eek:

That would be a downer now, wouldn’t it?

I get your point about not being “happy-clappy”, but doesn’t that sort of mindset leave out the joy we should feel that such a sacrifice has been made for our sake?

Unless I misunderstand your point…are you referring to being somber and taking the Eucharist seriously or referring to being sorrowful?
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I’m not really referring to emotion, just to behavior.
 
Unfortunately, I am having problems posting links to Amazon. For those of you who think that there was no joyful music prior to Vatican II, may I suggest you have a listen to Mozart’s “Exsultate Jubilate” or Vivaldi (a priest) who wrote volumes of decidedly joyful music for Mass. Sample Gabrielli’s “Jubilate Deo” or Monteverdi’s “Vespers of 1610”.

Sure, you could argue that these are concert pieces (although you would have to acknowledge that they were actually sung as part of the liturgy in their day). We sing single movements of a lot of these pieces with just organ and choir. For Christmas and Easter we are augmented by brass and timpani…and there are at least three other parishes in my diocese who sing this type of music as well. It’s not all Parce Domini folks.
 
lepanto said:
How do you transform a happy-clappy parish into a conservative (orthodox, traditional) one?

How can this be done, assuming that most people are satisfied with status quo and probably don’t know anything else?

What can the priest do?

What can the faithful do?

(Of course, changing the mindset of the people is much more difficult than simply installing a reredo.)

I’m not talking transforming NO to TLM, but happy-clappy NO to the NO that Vatican II intended, along with greater devotional life and practices.

:confused: :confused: :confused:
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Get a bunch of like minded people, as they come into church, hold them down hand cuff them behind their backs. No no hands to clappy.or receive Communion in hand. 😃
 
jmcrae said:
…just before the prayer for the dead. (And if they aren’t in the habit of praying the prayer for the dead at the end of every Rosary, then get them to do that, too.)…
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What is the prayer for the dead? My prayer book lists a few.

Thanks
 
Jay3gsm said:
What is the prayer for the dead? My prayer book lists a few.

Thanks
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ST. GERTRUDE’S PRAYER FOR HOLY SOULS IN PURGATORY

“Eternal Father, I offer Thee the Most Precious Blood of Thy Divine Son, Jesus, in union with the Masses said throughout the world today, for all the Holy Souls in Purgatory, for sinners everywhere, for sinners in the universal church, those in my own home and within my family. Amen.”

Peace.
 
I believe that the traditional prayer for the dead is:

Eternal rest grant unto (him, her, them) and let perpetual light shine upon (him, her, them). May the soul (of “X”) (or souls of the faithful departed) rest in peace. Amen.
 
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BobP123:
Save your cheers for the ball game.
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:rolleyes: Just because I’m happy doesn’t mean I’m irreverent. There are no popcorn vendors or curtain calls at my parish. “But the Lord is in His holy temple; let all the earth be silent before Him,” Habakkuk 2:20. I can be happy, joyful, reverent, and silent at the same time. I am truly sorry that you don’t want to be in a happy parish, but that doesn’t mean everyone else has to be a sourpuss.
 
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