How do you want YOUR parish priest to dress?

[Balance]

What this thread points to is something that I’ve said in these forums before - it’s so much easier to sit here and talk about priests not wearing clericals, bishops not doing their jobs, Jesuits having fuzzy theology, liturgical abuses… much easier than getting out there and actually making sure your priest has all he needs to live out his call (and also helping out your fellow parishioners with theirs) - to supporting him and loving him and letting him know he’s not alone. How would it be if instead of telling our priests how sharp and natty they look in their nice clothes we instead told them of just what it meant to us that time they helped us out, or looked out for so-and-so, or did whatever it was that was Christlike, and gave them a hug along with that?
How would it be if we didn’t say things in an internet forum that we would never say to a person’s face, but instead got off our backside and got out into the world and actually starting thinking less about what the Bishops, or our priest, or “the Church” should be doing and more about what we should be doing?

Can anyone say, “a new evangelisation?”

 

[Balance]

What this thread points to is something that I’ve said in these forums before - it’s so much easier to sit here and talk about priests not wearing clericals, bishops not doing their jobs, Jesuits having fuzzy theology, liturgical abuses… much easier than getting out there and actually making sure your priest has all he needs to live out his call (and also helping out your fellow parishioners with theirs) - to supporting him and loving him and letting him know he’s not alone. How would it be if instead of telling our priests how sharp and natty they look in their nice clothes we instead told them of just what it meant to us that time they helped us out, or looked out for so-and-so, or did whatever it was that was Christlike, and gave them a hug along with that?
How would it be if we didn’t say things in an internet forum that we would never say to a person’s face, but instead got off our backside and got out into the world and actually starting thinking less about what the Bishops, or our priest, or “the Church” should be doing and more about what we should be doing?

Can anyone say, “a new evangelisation?”

 

[Balance]

What this thread points to is something that I’ve said in these forums before - it’s so much easier to sit here and talk about priests not wearing clericals, bishops not doing their jobs, Jesuits having fuzzy theology, liturgical abuses… much easier than getting out there and actually making sure your priest has all he needs to live out his call (and also helping out your fellow parishioners with theirs) - to supporting him and loving him and letting him know he’s not alone. How would it be if instead of telling our priests how sharp and natty they look in their nice clothes we instead told them of just what it meant to us that time they helped us out, or looked out for so-and-so, or did whatever it was that was Christlike, and gave them a hug along with that?
How would it be if we didn’t say things in an internet forum that we would never say to a person’s face, but instead got off our backside and got out into the world and actually starting thinking less about what the Bishops, or our priest, or “the Church” should be doing and more about what we should be doing?

Can anyone say, “a new evangelisation?”

 

[Balance]

Ooooops. Sorry. Didn’t think they were going through. Computer wasn’t responding - blame the hackers.

 

[Balance]

Sorry also if I hijacked the thread. Didn’t mean to.

 

[Aureole]

Balance, I think you’re reading far too much in this thread. I highly doubt that anyone here is saying that a priest must wear such-and-such and must be properly groomed in order to be a good priest. There are many good examples to the contrary and anyone who says that the outer image of the priest determines how good a priest he is is clearly quite mistaken.

What the thread is discussing is what we, as members of the Church, like to see a priest wearing. Personally I like the cassock because of the way it looks and many agree with me. Others like the Roman collar with a shirt and pants, while others say they don’t mind a priest in more casual clothing. Some have also mentioned what they, if they were a priest, would wear as a priest. That is all.

No one here is condemning a priest for wearing something outside what they prefer. No one is criticizing the Bishops for whatever problems in the diocese there may be. Some are teasing the Jesuits, but that is all it is: teasing. We all know there are absolutely wonderful priests, especially among the Jesuits.

I would agree with everything you said if I perceived what you do. In fact, I do agree with what you say about the Christian faithful going out to aid our priests and Bishops in spreading the Gospel.

I apologize if anything I said offended you, or anyone else for that matter, in some way. I’m sure the other participants in this thread will do the same. I pray we’ll be able to continue our support for the clergy.

God bless you.

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

I don’t come into contact with many Jesuits, as there aren’t that many of them in this area. The ones I do know are rock-solid, orthodox priests, and are quite elderly. As with most stereotypes, there is an element of truth, but they remain stereotypes. All orders and dioceses have had their share of heresies in the past forty years, but we’ve been picking on the SJ’s for centuries, so they’re used to it by now. I admire the dedication of the Jesuit order, pray for their priests who adhere to the teachings of the Church, and pray also for those who don’t.

 

[Lepanto]

Balance, I think you’re reading far too much in this thread. I highly doubt that anyone here is saying that a priest must wear such-and-such and must be properly groomed in order to be a good priest.

What the thread is discussing is what we, as members of the Church, like to see a priest wearing.

Exactly!

 

[ComradeAndrei]

and i doubt that all of those people put much store in personal grooming. I’d say they just got up in the morning and slung their habit on and got on with it.

Possibly, depending upon the era. No matter who you are, I wouldn’t recommend that today.

My post wasn’t an argument against clerical clothing or habits. Far from it, I reckon there’s a lot to be said for wearing them. But as to how I want my parish priest to dress, as to what I think my priest should wear? It’s none of my business. The time I spend thinking about what other Christians should or shouldn’t be doing is time wasted.

Your opinion is duly noted.

I wonder if this might be the sort of thing that puts a man off entering the seminary - the knowledge that once he is a priest, parishioners are going to be watching him like an eagle to see if he looks the part, plays the role, “Oh, Father, you look sharp today” (read, “Oh Father, you look like a good holy man should look”). It goes back to my point that people should notice what a priest does far more than what he wears!

Didn’t put me off. If someone has that thin of skin that they won’t go to the seminary because years down the road their parishoners will criticize them for how they dress (and there will be people who critcize you for EVERYTHING)-then the priesthood probably isn’t their proper vocation.

If you dress like you should, there will be people who criticize you for being too “rigid”, if you wear polos and khakis, there will be far more people who criticize you for being lax.

Or am I reading too much into this thread? Is it just a fun, light little conversation that doesn’t actually mean anything and I shouldn’t take offence?

We (or at least I am) are all just expressing our opinions, we are not slinging anathemas at people who don’t live up to what we expect. However, in a book I read recently by Archbishop Dolan, he stated that when priests stop wearing clerics that is often a sign that their vocation is in trouble. Another red flag is if they stop praying the Office.

Hmm, “meeting the requirements.” Interesting phrase.

Yes, they make rules for a reason. ALL priests are supposed to wear clerics unless for a serious reason they can’t and there are also legitimate relaxations given by the local Ordinary.

Yep, a servant of the poor, sick, bereaved and lonely needs to meet requirements of dress otherwise he can’t serve them properly. A man who’s chosen celibacy so he can be free to give fully of himself to all that he meets, to love them as Christ loves them, needs to be quite certain that he is firstly edifying them with his dress (only secondly with the way he treats them?) as he does so. A man sharing in the priesthood of Christ, going to the Cross with him, needs to be, first and foremost… “respectable.”
Uh huh.

I don’t know where you get your ideology on priesthood from, but being properly dressed doesn’t cut one off from the people. This isn’t an “either/or” situation. The dress should be a given, just like the actions should be a given-they don’t contradict or “get in the way” of each other.

Here is an excellent essay on why priests should dress as priests-
ewtn.com/library/PRIESTS/RMCOLLAR.TXT

Here is an interesting perspective-this man isn’t even Catholic and he has a spot-on understanding of why clergy should wear clerical clothes-
kencollins.com/pray-26.htm

Furthermore, he states that, “the inventor of the clerical shirt, the Rev. Dr. Donald McLeod, was not Catholic.” and that many and various Christian denominations are wearing it. One more reason for me to prefer the Roman Cassock.

 

[fix]

Possibly, depending upon the era. No matter who you are, I wouldn’t recommend that today.

Your opinion is duly noted.

Didn’t put me off. If someone has that thin of skin that they won’t go to the seminary because years down the road their parishoners will criticize them for how they dress (and there will be people who critcize you for EVERYTHING)-then the priesthood probably isn’t their proper vocation.

If you dress like you should, there will be people who criticize you for being too “rigid”, if you wear polos and khakis, there will be far more people who criticize you for being lax.

We (or at least I am) are all just expressing our opinions, we are not slinging anathemas at people who don’t live up to what we expect. However, in a book I read recently by Archbishop Dolan, he stated that when priests stop wearing clerics that is often a sign that their vocation is in trouble. Another red flag is if they stop praying the Office.

Yes, they make rules for a reason. ALL priests are supposed to wear clerics unless for a serious reason they can’t and there are also legitimate relaxations given by the local Ordinary.

I don’t know where you get your ideology on priesthood from, but being properly dressed doesn’t cut one off from the people. This isn’t an “either/or” situation. The dress should be a given, just like the actions should be a given-they don’t contradict or “get in the way” of each other.

Here is an excellent essay on why priests should dress as priests-
ewtn.com/library/PRIESTS/RMCOLLAR.TXT

Here is an interesting perspective-this man isn’t even Catholic and he has a spot-on understanding of why clergy should wear clerical clothes-
kencollins.com/pray-26.htm

Furthermore, he states that, “the inventor of the clerical shirt, the Rev. Dr. Donald McLeod, was not Catholic.” and that many and various Christian denominations are wearing it. One more reason for me to prefer the Roman Cassock.

Great points and the ewtn link makes the case very well.

 

[Unfinished]

Here is an interesting perspective-this man isn’t even Catholic and he has a spot-on understanding of why clergy should wear clerical clothes-
kencollins.com/pray-26.htm

That was an awesome read. I wish Catholics could grasp the concept that well.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I really don’t care how priest dress.

It’s how they live their live’s that is important.

 

[fix]

How people dress is part of how they lead their lives.

1. “Clothes do not make the man- the people of God can see my
   priesthood by the way I live, not by the way I dress.” This statement
   as it stands is true. But the legitimate, Church-sanctioned vesture
   of the priest does not somehow mask who he is; instead, it highlights
   that he is indeed a priest who is required by the Church to dress
   accordingly as he seeks to imitate the First Priest.

 

[Orionthehunter]

My former Bishop (new one to be ordained in a little over a week ) required that a Priest be dressed in his clerics always when he was performing his Priestly functions. Additionally, he encouraged them to wear their clerics when out and about in the community for two reasons- Be proud of who you are and so you are prepared in the event of an emergency. But on their day off (they only get one here despite working 10+ hour days the other six), they were allowed and probably even slightly encouraged to wear secular clothing to allow them to have lunch with a friend, do a little shopping, play golf or otherwise recreate, etc. In fact, my pastor said that he always went shopping in secular clothes so that people would feel obligated to offer him a deal (clericalism).

Additionally, after struggling w/ weight, my pastor took up bike riding. He would ride his bike for 20+ miles in exercise clothes and then stop in at the homebound to say hello when he was tired. Also, my pastor, who played college baseball, loved to peddle his bike in the evenings to ball parks and watch softball games or baseball games. I would sometimes meet him there as that is too one of my favorite summer pastimes. He would have looked goofy in his clerics on his bike. By the way, he had his oils and holy water in a pouch on his bike in the event of an emergency but I don’t know if he had a stole stuffed in there or not.

 

[prv]

Most certainly not like this punk priest.

thepunkpriest.com/disciplesnow.asp

(This is already discussed in another thread.)

See this:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=1574728#post1574728

 

[Balance]

“this thread is about what we **like **to see a priest wearing.”
No - my point is, it’s not really about that is it? It 's about “How do you want your parish priest to dress” ie - “how should your priest dress?”
That is, you have an idea of how a priest should dress - is your priest living up to that idea?

Of course, I can cede that the Roman collar with shirt and pants are much better than “business casual” clothing. Far better! There’s nothing wrong with this at all. I would much prefer the cassock but this is okay.

“far better”. One is good, one is “far better” - that’s not a statement of preference, that’s a moral evaluation!

I like to see a priest in his collar. Shows that he’s not ashamed to be a priest and make a stand for God in public. Bums me out when I see them out and about in ‘civilian’ clothes.

“Bums you out when you see them in civilian clothes?” so you’re annoyed/discouraged simply by what they’re wearing? Mate, that’s your issue and nothing to do with how they’re dressing!

I want a priest who wears a cassock with biretta in church and a roman wide brimed hat outside of church. He should use the fringed sash with it. Black capes in the winter or black priest coats to go with the cassock. Black shoulder capes are ideal too, and my pastor at the Tridentine Indult wears a black shoulder cape with his cassock. If a priest cannot afford the real priest cassock with 33 buttons, then a simple altar server cassock would do just fine (unless if thats forbidden).

“I want a priest who wears a cassock,” - huh? so if he’s wearing a cassock, everything’s good and you’re happy.
“he should”… he should?

I did not vote in the poll. I want him to dress in a modest, dignified way, but also in a way that that he is comfortable. I really don’t feel that I have a right to dictate to him my idea of “priestliness.”

Yep.

Balance, I think you’re reading far too much in this thread. I highly doubt that anyone here is saying that a priest must wear such-and-such and must be properly groomed in order to be a good priest. There are many good examples to the contrary and anyone who says that the outer image of the priest determines how good a priest he is is clearly quite mistaken.

That;'s my point - the whole tenor of many of the posts suggest just that - that what a priest looks like determines what he is like.

What the thread is discussing is what we, as members of the Church, like to see a priest wearing. Personally I like the cassock because of the way it looks and many agree with me. Others like the Roman collar with a shirt and pants, while others say they don’t mind a priest in more casual clothing. Some have also mentioned what they, if they were a priest, would wear as a priest. That is all.

again, that’s not all. “he should,” “far better” and so on are saying something more than a simple statement of preference.

No one here is condemning a priest for wearing something outside what they prefer. No one is criticizing the Bishops for whatever problems in the diocese there may be. Some are teasing the Jesuits, but that is all it is: teasing. We all know there are absolutely wonderful priests, especially among the Jesuits.

It’s not hard to see a certain condemnation in phrases like “playing the street priest.”

“That’s all it is - teasing”? I’m sure you know how destructive negative humour is. Would you say what you’ve said about Jesuits to the head of the Jesuit congregation, or to a particular Jesuit who you saw as “liberal”? If you wouldn’t, don’t say it here. If you would, I’m sure you’d say it in a much more constructive way that you have here.

 

[ComradeAndrei]

From the Code of Canon Law-

Can. 284 Clerics are to wear suitable ecclesiastical garb according to the norms issued by the conference of bishops and according to legitimate local customs.

As officially interpreted and recognized by the United States Council of Catholic Bishops, with recognitio from the Congregation for Bishops-

usccb.org/norms/284.htm

Complementary Norm: The National Conference of Catholic Bishops, in accord with the prescriptions of canon 284, hereby decrees that without prejudice to the provisions of canon 288, clerics are to dress in conformity with their sacred calling.

In liturgical rites, clerics shall wear the vesture prescribed in the proper liturgical books. Outside liturgical functions, a black suit and Roman collar are the usual attire for priests. The use of the cassock is at the discretion of the cleric.

In the case of religious clerics, the determinations of their proper institutes or societies are to be observed with regard to wearing the religious habit.

Therefore, priests **must **wear clerical attire. Because he doesn’t “feel” like it or because he thinks he can “fit in better” are not legit excuses. The “usual” clerical attire for priests outside of liturgical functions in the U.S. is a black suit and Roman collar but can wear the cassock at their discretion. There is really no option, unless the priest is partaking in legitimate recreation or physical labor or is prevented from wearing his clerics because of actual persecution, he is to be wearing clerics and if he is not then he is in violation of CIC 284 and the USCCB clarification thereof.

The “traditional” practice in America was to reserve the cassock to “house” use (to wear while at the rectory, in the church, on church grounds etc.) and to wear a black suit and collar when out in the “world”, although that is just a custom mainly driven by anti-Catholicism. The cassock screams “Romanism”.

 

[Balance]

Possibly, depending upon the era. No matter who you are, I wouldn’t recommend that today.

Wouldn’t recommend what today?

Your opinion is duly noted.

Didn’t put me off. If someone has that thin of skin that they won’t go to the seminary because years down the road their parishoners will criticize them for how they dress (and there will be people who critcize you for EVERYTHING)-then the priesthood probably isn’t their proper vocation.

Firstly, this wouldn’t be the only thing that might put a bloke off - it is “the sort of thing”. Secondly, I wasn’t talking about criticism, I was talking about a kind of idolisation - the sort expressed, perhaps, in a post like this:
"Both of our priests always look so sharp in their neatly pressed, clean black shirt, black suit jacket, black pants, shiny black shoes, and Roman collar.

They also both have dark skin colouring, dark eyes, and dark hair, neatly cut short - they are very good-looking, and take the proper care in their dress and grooming. "

It’s that sort of what could be called shallowness expressed in many posts in this thread and in others that bugs me - that how a person looks and how they “toe the line” matters most - that a Christian be respectable, and wellgroomed, and not rock the boat. That a person would be happy with their priest if he wore clericals and less than happy if he didn’t.

Has there been a poll “How do you want to serve your parish priest?” or “how do you help your priest to live out his vocation?” If not, why not, and wouldn’t that be altogether more edifying than talking about how we want our parish priest (who, is presumably, an adult and can and should decide for himself , taking into account the direction of his bishop - not his parishioners) to dress?

Then again, as I said before, I’m not saying there’s no place for a thread like this, just that it makes me wonder.

If you dress like you should, there will be people who criticize you for being too “rigid”, if you wear polos and khakis, there will be far more people who criticize you for being lax.

Who are all these people doing the criticising? Don’t they have anything better to do?!

We (or at least I am) are all just expressing our opinions, we are not slinging anathemas at people who don’t live up to what we expect. However, in a book I read recently by Archbishop Dolan, he stated that when priests stop wearing clerics that is often a sign that their vocation is in trouble. Another red flag is if they stop praying the Office.

Maybe. So the question is, “what would be the best thing to do in the case of our priest ceasing to wear his clericals?” It seems like a lot of people who use these forums would answer, “The best thing to do is to get on catholic.com and start a thread about how lax and unorthodox my priest/bishop/diocese is” instead of inviting your priest out for a coffee or something and letting him know that you appreciate him, and want him to be living out his call as best he can, and that you’ll love him as he is trying to love his flock. Yeah?

Yes, they make rules for a reason. ALL priests are supposed to wear clerics unless for a serious reason they can’t and there are also legitimate relaxations given by the local Ordinary.

I agree. So it’s between the priest and God isn’t it, and the priest and his bishop, not between the priest and his parishioners.

I don’t know where you get your ideology on priesthood from, but being properly dressed doesn’t cut one off from the people. This isn’t an “either/or” situation. The dress should be a given, just like the actions should be a given-they don’t contradict or “get in the way” of each other.

I think you’ve misunderstood me. I was playing devil’s advocate in that post, suggesting that was what it sounded to me like you were saying. i’m not saying a priest in clericals is cut off from the people.

Here is an excellent essay on why priests should dress as priests-
ewtn.com/library/PRIESTS/RMCOLLAR.TXT

Here is an interesting perspective-this man isn’t even Catholic and he has a spot-on understanding of why clergy should wear clerical clothes-
kencollins.com/pray-26.htm

They are good articles. Ta.

 

[Balance]

From the Code of Canon Law-

As officially interpreted and recognized by the United States Council of Catholic Bishops, with recognitio from the Congregation for Bishops-

usccb.org/norms/284.htm

Therefore, priests **must **wear clerical attire. Because he doesn’t “feel” like it or because he thinks he can “fit in better” are not legit excuses. The “usual” clerical attire for priests outside of liturgical functions in the U.S. is a black suit and Roman collar but can wear the cassock at their discretion. There is really no option, unless the priest is partaking in legitimate recreation or physical labor or is prevented from wearing his clerics because of actual persecution, he is to be wearing clerics and if he is not then he is in violation of CIC 284 and the USCCB clarification thereof.

The “traditional” practice in America was to reserve the cassock to “house” use (to wear while at the rectory, in the church, on church grounds etc.) and to wear a black suit and collar when out in the “world”, although that is just a custom mainly driven by anti-Catholicism. The cassock screams “Romanism”.

what are the provisions of Canon 288?

 

[Aureole]

Canon 288:

Can. 288 Permanent deacons are not bound by the provisions of cann. 284, 285, §§3 and 4, 286, 287 §2, unless particular law states otherwise.

Balance, you’re arguing something no one is saying. No one is saying that priests must wear such-and-such in order to be good priests. What we’re saying is what we like to see a priest wearing. The wording for the title may be problematic but I doubt it means what you think it is.

It is actually “far better” for a priest to wear the Roman collar with shirt and pants than “business casual” clothes. This is evidenced by the Code of Canon Law, the particular canon is cited here as well. I don’t think anyone who mentioned “playing street priest” meant to condemn any priest for not wearing their clerics. It does run against Canon Law to do so though, and the priest ought to stop.