How does a Catholic increase the chance of getting into Heaven?

[friarjamesosf]

Greetings-

 For me, reading Matther 25:31-46 daily and doing everything I can to hang out with the sheep; which, of course, means doing the things the sheep do. Based on this parabolic passage itself, this seems lke a sure winner!

Pax et Bonum!!

 

[Janet1983]

What does a catholic need to do to increase their possible of getting into heaven when the die ???

thnx

Well there are a lot things they can DO to increase the chances…

• Be baptised (usually prerequisite to become catholic…
• Be confirmed
• Keep the 10 commandments and the great commandment
• Pray to God
• Pray to Mary
• Pray to the other saints and archangels (e.g. Michael, the Archangel)
• Go to confession once a week (well at least once a year)
• Receive Communion once a week (better: every day… at least once a year though)
• Fast during lent
• Get married in the Church or abstain from sexual contact
• If married only have sex for reproductive reasons
• Give to the poor
• Visit the sick
• Pay for a mass being said for a deceased relative and hope others do the same for you and a lot…
• Go on a pilgrimage (Lourdes, Fátima, Vatican City and Santiago de Compostela are really great… Jerusalem and Bethlehem make a good place to go to too…)
• Pray the rosary
• Receive indulgences that are formally approved by the pope… (follow the directions and get out of purgatory faster)
• Pray for the intention of the pope
• Believe all Dogmas and Doctrines of the Church
• Stay within the Church

Not saying that all Catholics do all of this, but it increases the chances…

 

[PJM]

---

What does a catholic need to do to increase their possible of getting into heaven when the die ???

thnx

***Know it well enough to share and defend it and

Be couageous enough to practice it fully, completely and publically***

 

[QuickCat]

The only way to heaven is through the Lord Jesus Christ. The Word teaches that the moment we believe on Him we are SEALED by the Holy Spirit. We can know that we have eternal life. The book of Ephesians places us in the heavenlies. Paul writes in Philippians that “Our citizenship is in heaven.” We are already positionally seated there with our Lord and Savior, the LORD Jesus Christ! Amen!

 

[Janet1983]

The only way to heaven is through the Lord Jesus Christ. The Word teaches that the moment we believe on Him we are SEALED by the Holy Spirit. We can know that we have eternal life. The book of Ephesians places us in the heavenlies. Paul writes in Philippians that “Our citizenship is in heaven.” We are already positionally seated there with our Lord and Savior, the LORD Jesus Christ! Amen!

That would mean they would actually have to get saved…

 

[Detales]

The most urgent and useful thing one might do to assure Heaven is to abandon immediately the notion that being Catholic has any more or less to do with it than does being Buddhist or Christadelphian or Jain or atheist or cargo cultist. Goodness and salvation only have a nodding acquaintance with religion of any sort,

When you die, the two questions asked are “Did you Love?” and “What did you learn?” Not whether you were baptized, went to Mass, spun your prayer wheel, wore your holy undergarments, or were a cleric of any description. Those two questions constitute the entirety of at least the “particular” Judgment as you yourself review your life.

Love God, and love they neighbor as thyself. And Above all, follow the ages old dictum to Know Thyself “Gnothi Seauton” Religionism of any sort is laboring in an adjacent field to that of salvation, and takes energy from the actual work necessary, that of self inquiry.

I say all of this in full agreement with the statements attributed to Jesus that “I AM the Way, The Truth, and the Light” and that “I and the Father are One.”

 

[Timmy_Z]

Reading through this thread really brought to me the great difference between the RCC and Protestantism. We may affirm the same essential Christian doctrines (the Nicene Creed…), but there is a real gulf between our views of Christ, salvation, forgiveness,…

I have heard Hank Hanagraf (The Bible Answer Man - he is on AM radio sometimes) say the difference between RC’s and Protestants is that RC’s work for their salvation whereas Protestants work from their salvation. However, I think the difference is deeper. To me (from the outside) RC seems a terrifying life. The RC faith seems far too similar to all the other merit based religions with a lot of luck mixed in (what if you don’t make it to confession in time after a sin). (I also seem to remember Dante encountering people who were in hell because they were unfortunate more than evil, but I will have to confirm it.)

The typical story of Martin Luther I was raised on he is that he was tormented in his RC days by his fear of God. May I ask, how do the RCs on here deal with the concern and fear of uncertainty in mercy and Christ’s friendship evident in the OP? (I ask not for a debate “gottcha”, but a legitament interest - I don’t know if I could handle being RC)

Thanks,
Tim

Disclaimer: Please forgive any typos tonight, as I haven’t slept in a while (we had our third child yesterday and I have been very busy with no sleep - literally)

 

[Timmy_Z]

Detales,

What do you base your view on?

I say all of this in full agreement with the statements attributed to Jesus that “I AM the Way, The Truth, and the Light” and that “I and the Father are One.”

Finish the John 14:6 quote, it directly contradicts your statements proceeding it.

Thanks,
Tim

 

[Detales]

Yes, I know that part too, Z, and it is not a contradiction. I base my statements on how that is not a contradiction, and on what I said in my original post. Try it.

 

[Biggie]

Reading through this thread really brought to me the great difference between the RCC and Protestantism. We may affirm the same essential Christian doctrines (the Nicene Creed…), but there is a real gulf between our views of Christ, salvation, forgiveness,…

I have heard Hank Hanagraf (The Bible Answer Man - he is on AM radio sometimes) say the difference between RC’s and Protestants is that RC’s work for their salvation whereas Protestants work from their salvation. However, I think the difference is deeper. To me (from the outside) RC seems a terrifying life. The RC faith seems far too similar to all the other merit based religions with a lot of luck mixed in (what if you don’t make it to confession in time after a sin). (I also seem to remember Dante encountering people who were in hell because they were unfortunate more than evil, but I will have to confirm it.)

The typical story of Martin Luther I was raised on he is that he was tormented in his RC days by his fear of God. May I ask, how do the RCs on here deal with the concern and fear of uncertainty in mercy and Christ’s friendship evident in the OP? (I ask not for a debate “gottcha”, but a legitament interest - I don’t know if I could handle being RC)

Thanks,
Tim

Disclaimer: Please forgive any typos tonight, as I haven’t slept in a while (we had our third child yesterday and I have been very busy with no sleep - literally)

Tim, Catholics do not have an uncertainty in Christ’s mercy and friendship. I have had a few friends, but never one to whom I have not had to apologize on occasion. And if I offended a friend seriously and didn’t make the effort to apologize I would be presuming on his friendship. I would, in effect, be self justified rather than justified by forgiveness. Remorse and forgiveness are not a sign of a weakened faith between my friend and I, but just the opposite, the true mark of friendship. My confidence in my friend is that he will forgive me, and my friend’s confidence in me is that I will say I’m sorry.

To say that one’s deeds, good and bad, do not matter is to contradict the evidence of the eyes themselves. When my words and my deeds do not line up, I am in effect saying to the Lord, “Don’t mind what I am doing, Lord, mind what I’m saying.” Reconciliation is the answer to the obvious duplicity and the insult it represents to the Lord.

Finally, without an appreciation of the value of one’s deeds, one is deprived of an appreciation of the value of suffering inherent in life. Just how exactly does one find meaning in it other than joined to the suffering of Jesus and therefore of redemptive value?

And… congratulations … dad!

 

[friarjamesosf]

Reading through this thread really brought to me the great difference between the RCC and Protestantism. We may affirm the same essential Christian doctrines (the Nicene Creed…), but there is a real gulf between our views of Christ, salvation, forgiveness,…

I have heard Hank Hanagraf (The Bible Answer Man - he is on AM radio sometimes) say the difference between RC’s and Protestants is that RC’s work for their salvation whereas Protestants work from their salvation. However, I think the difference is deeper. To me (from the outside) RC seems a terrifying life. The RC faith seems far too similar to all the other merit based religions with a lot of luck mixed in (what if you don’t make it to confession in time after a sin). (I also seem to remember Dante encountering people who were in hell because they were unfortunate more than evil, but I will have to confirm it.)

The typical story of Martin Luther I was raised on he is that he was tormented in his RC days by his fear of God. May I ask, how do the RCs on here deal with the concern and fear of uncertainty in mercy and Christ’s friendship evident in the OP? (I ask not for a debate “gottcha”, but a legitament interest - I don’t know if I could handle being RC)

Thanks,
Tim

Disclaimer: Please forgive any typos tonight, as I haven’t slept in a while (we had our third child yesterday and I have been very busy with no sleep - literally)

Greetings all!
In the fact that God’s love alone - and nothing else can save us - that we cannot earn salvation, I believe Luther was right. In the fact that good works contribute to our salvation, I believe the RCC was right. I can’t imagine how someone cannot see the importance of good works.

 In my opinion - **both** Luther and the RCC were right - and **both were only partially correct**. 

 If belief in (confession of) the name or Jesus is all that is required for salvation AS WE UNDERSTAND SALVATION, then I wonder why Jesus spent a whole, whole lot more time talking about how "saved people" are suppose to DO things - how they handle taxes, how they treat their neighbors, etc.  Luther calls us to the great joy of knowing we ARE SAVED by our belief in Jesus - that is indeed a great joy and should bring unceasing RESPONSE from the "saved-ee."

 For the RCC to see that Jesus spelled out that He was THE WAY and that we need to do all that we can to transform ourselves into closer lovers of Jesus -- and WITNESSES of Jesus by doing things as He did ---  Jesus expected action AND belief.  

 I like to think of it as someone who wins a lottery - a large jackpot.  Now, they bought the ticket - so there was some action involved.  Buying that ticket could be compared to inviting Jesus into our lives as Lord and Saviour. (Which is the meaning and affect of the Sacrament of Baptism - that the one being baptized chooses Jesus as their Lord and Saviour.

  So,  the winner gets that big old cardboard check and starts worrying if his bank will accept such a thing.  Of course they tell him the bank will and so he runs to the bank, deposits the check, and lets it sit there till the day of his/her death. Not very likely - most winners are out shopping and partying like crazy because of this tremendous gift they won. 

 So it is with the belief in, and confession of, Jesus as Lord and Saviour.  If we truly confess Jesus as Lord and Saviour - that is such a huge gift that it is going to deeply change how we DO things.  So, the concept of Faith Without Works just doesn't make any sense when we realize what a gift Jesus is - the gift of salvation. If Aunt Martha never sees you wear that absolutely hideous sweater she bought you for Christmas, she will probably assume that you didn't want it.  (good luck on that one!)

 Recall also that Jesus said that not everyone who "confesses His name" will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

A Tree and Its Fruit

Mt 7:15 “Watch out for false prophets. w They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. x
Mt 7:16 By their fruit you will recognize them. y Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? z
Mt 7:17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
Mt 7:18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. a
Mt 7:19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. b
Mt 7:20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
Mt 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ c will enter the kingdom of heaven, d but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. e
Mt 7:22 Many will say to me on that day, f ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ g
Mt 7:23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

I think Luther saw one of the eternal, unchangeable truths - that it is ALL based on faith. I think the RCC realized that the works people do to actively participate in their salvation - to try to help preparet them for Heaven - those works ASSUME faith in Jesus – if that is not true - and these “workers for salvation” don’t have the faith that leads to salvation - then WHY would they choose to do things that Jesus taught.

I am sorry I ramble on so much – but this tread is full of misunderstandings and misinformation and so on. The love God has for us, and demonstrates by GIVING us salvation – that kind of love DEMANDS good works from us — not to earn, but to celebrate!!

Pax et Bonum!

 

[gspringer]

This is in response to the person who says that there a lot of things to help you get into heave.

1. Be baptized. Yes, baptism is good, but not a requirement.
2. Be confirmed. Not all denomantation do confirmation classes.
3. Pray to Mary. Where in the Bible does it says we have to pray to Mary.
4. Pray to the other saints, etc. Also, where in the Bible does it say this.
5. Go to confession once a week. Look at the last sentence.
6. Receive Communion. ditto
7. Fast during Lent. ditto
8. Get married in the Church. ditto
9. If married only have sex for reproductive reasons. What about the people who can’t have children.
10. Pay for amass being said for a deceased relative, etc. Bible verse?
11. Go on a pilgrimage. ditto
12. Pray a rosary. ditto
13. Receive indulgences, etc. ditto
14. Pray for the intention of the pope.

I am just wanting people to think outside the box (church teaching)

 

[CentralFLJames]

The most urgent and useful thing one might do to assure Heaven is to abandon immediately the notion that being Catholic has any more or less to do with it than does being Buddhist or Christadelphian or Jain or atheist or cargo cultist. Goodness and salvation only have a nodding acquaintance with religion of any sort,

When you die, the two questions asked are “Did you Love?” and “What did you learn?” Not whether you were baptized, went to Mass, spun your prayer wheel, wore your holy undergarments, or were a cleric of any description. Those two questions constitute the entirety of at least the “particular” Judgment as you yourself review your life.

Love God, and love they neighbor as thyself. And Above all, follow the ages old dictum to Know Thyself “Gnothi Seauton” Religionism of any sort is laboring in an adjacent field to that of salvation, and takes energy from the actual work necessary, that of self inquiry.

I say all of this in full agreement with the statements attributed to Jesus that “I AM the Way, The Truth, and the Light” and that “I and the Father are One.”

And here we have Datales once again acting like he is the “guru on the mountain” giving his own personal salvation prescription with no pedigree or any personal experience or evidence that a single thing he says is true.

Datales, you are wasting your breath here. When you can walk on water, or heal people, or even appeal to simple reason and logic people might respect what you have to say. Until then - it all night as well be like ringing one’s own bell in harmony with one’s own private symphony to a musical score that sounds more like Tinnitus than it does enlightenment…

James

 

[CentralFLJames]

Reading through this thread really brought to me the great difference between the RCC and Protestantism. We may affirm the same essential Christian doctrines (the Nicene Creed…), but there is a real gulf between our views of Christ, salvation, forgiveness,…

I have heard Hank Hanagraf (The Bible Answer Man - he is on AM radio sometimes) say the difference between RC’s and Protestants is that RC’s work for their salvation whereas Protestants work from their salvation. However, I think the difference is deeper. To me (from the outside) RC seems a terrifying life. The RC faith seems far too similar to all the other merit based religions with a lot of luck mixed in (what if you don’t make it to confession in time after a sin). (I also seem to remember Dante encountering people who were in hell because they were unfortunate more than evil, but I will have to confirm it.)

The typical story of Martin Luther I was raised on he is that he was tormented in his RC days by his fear of God. May I ask, how do the RCs on here deal with the concern and fear of uncertainty in mercy and Christ’s friendship evident in the OP? (I ask not for a debate “gottcha”, but a legitament interest - I don’t know if I could handle being RC)

Thanks,
Tim

Disclaimer: Please forgive any typos tonight, as I haven’t slept in a while (we had our third child yesterday and I have been very busy with no sleep - literally)

Tim, I am saddened that you have come to the conclusions that you have. Hank Hanegraaff is a CEO of CRI - that is a corporation not a Church founded on the apostolic faith and teachings. He has no pedigree or spiritual authority to show for himself.

To see RC practice as terrifying is to be terrified of the unknown - you obviously don’t understand what RC really believes since we have 1.2 billion Catholics world wide and as the largest Christian faith it would not be so popular if it were terrifying. Perhaps you are claustrophobic of being in crowds?

To call Catholicism a “merit based SYSTEM” tells me somone has brainwashed you and taught you to judge religion by THEIR own private standard of analysis. Religion is not a system - it is a culture of life. People who express religion as a system are simply trying to see everything as a system so they can denigrate it and re-sell you THEIR system to replace it just like used car salesmen do. Learn to see motive behind the semantics that are used - this is the language of a salesman and a person who imagines they have superior insights than others. Make the person who taught you HIS world view prove that HE is not just ANOTHER SYSTEM of critical analysis and make HIM prove to YOU why HIS system is better.

Catholics are THE ONLY Christians on the planet that can have ASSURANCES of salvation if the confess their sins and receive the sacraments according to teachings - which means true repentance. It is NOT a luck of when one dies. The idea is to not be in sin so you have NO chance of dieing in sin. If on the other hand you are shopping for a SYSTEM that let’s you sin and think you have a free-ticket to salvation is is YOU who are playing Russian Roulette with YOUR salvation since anyone who dies with unforgiven mortal sins goes to hell. Those who do not have an apostolic sacrament of forgivness have NO way to be forgiven of grave sins except by PERFECT REPENTANCE - hating sin so much one would rather die than ever offend God again with no fear or motive of escaping hell. If you think you can attain perfect contrition then you are deluding yourself and you are the one who is risking your eternity by NOT being in the Catholic Church. OSAS and false doctrines based on faith-alone land more people in hell through a false sense of salvation from unrepented sins than probably any other sin committed under ignorance of gravity outside of a Christian faith - just my opinion.

Durante degli Alighieri was a poet - NOT a saint. He had no supernatural experiences that we know of. His works are FICTION and not Catholic doctrine LOL.

Marin Luther was a mentally disturbed Catholic monk (who was known to have a scrupulous mind - seeing sin in everything he did). He meant well but was duped by the German nobility and used as a puppet to put the state in control of the church and to invent a new secularized Christianity that was never before taught in all of history. It was a pure fabrication. True Catholics have NO fear of salvation. We know that if we keep ourselves in grace by confessing our sins, avoiding sins, praying, receiving Eucharist in the mass and trusting in Jesus’ words and His Mercy that we have a very HIGH confidence in salvation.

It is the lip-service Christians who profess “The Lord” as “Lord” but do not OBEY Him as The Lord who will be spit out and sent to hell (“not all who call me Lord Lord will enter my kingdom”). By this I mean those who say “I believe” but do not obey him and void sin and who do not try to “be holy as your heavenly father is holy” (going to confession often to confess sins and repenting and doing penance).

James

 

[Janet1983]

This is in response to the person who says that there a lot of things to help you get into heave.

1. Be baptized. Yes, baptism is good, but not a requirement.
2. Be confirmed. Not all denomantation do confirmation classes.
3. Pray to Mary. Where in the Bible does it says we have to pray to Mary.
4. Pray to the other saints, etc. Also, where in the Bible does it say this.
5. Go to confession once a week. Look at the last sentence.
6. Receive Communion. ditto
7. Fast during Lent. ditto
8. Get married in the Church. ditto
9. If married only have sex for reproductive reasons. What about the people who can’t have children.
10. Pay for amass being said for a deceased relative, etc. Bible verse?
11. Go on a pilgrimage. ditto
12. Pray a rosary. ditto
13. Receive indulgences, etc. ditto
14. Pray for the intention of the pope.

I am just wanting people to think outside the box (church teaching)

You will hardly find anybody who will do that for you (thinking outside of church teaching that is). I wrote the list because of what I experienced and because of what people do. They think they can get brownie points with God by doing all these things. They say that Baptism and the other sacraments leave marks on the soul and are necessary for salvation and the pope encourages pilgrimages very much as well as the prayer to the saints and the prayer of the rosary. I noticed you didn’t doubt all of my statements… I honestly would say that only getting saved really working. None of the others is… even trying to keep the 10 commandments isn’t because nobody does keep them all 100% and throughout all of their life. There is nothing we can do to increase our chances of getting into heaven except for getting saved and thereby getting the assurance of getting into heaven.

 

[JustaServant]

You will hardly find anybody who will do that for you (thinking outside of church teaching that is). I wrote the list because of what I experienced and because of what people do. They think they can get brownie points with God by doing all these things. They say that Baptism and the other sacraments leave marks on the soul and are necessary for salvation and the pope encourages pilgrimages very much as well as the prayer to the saints and the prayer of the rosary. I noticed you didn’t doubt all of my statements… I honestly would say that only getting saved really working. None of the others is… even trying to keep the 10 commandments isn’t because nobody does keep them all 100% and throughout all of their life. There is nothing we can do to increase our chances of getting into heaven except for getting saved and thereby getting the assurance of getting into heaven.

Your ignorance of the Church you claim to have once been a part of is incredible. I would suggest you actually read what Catholics actually believe before you make such statements.

 

[Timmy_Z]

I have to be brief as I am trying to get the house clean for the baby coming home today.

friarjamesosf, Thank you very much for your reply:

The love God has for us, and demonstrates by GIVING us salvation – that kind of love DEMANDS good works from us — not to earn, but to celebrate!!

Misunderstanding indeed. With the exception of the “free grace” teachings of a minority of Protestants I do not believe anything you said significantly differs from standard evangelical teaching. We believe faith alone saves, yet true faith will be evident in our works that flow from our gratitude for what Christ has done for us and our love. While allowing for temporary backsliding most any Evangelical preacher will tell someone who’s life does not reflect their Christian faith (even if they give it lip service) that they probably have not been saved, as true faith results in works.

I think the concern I have with the RCC is the tendency for it to cause the OP. I did X, Y, and Z to get fixed yet what if I didn’t do A or D right?

CentralFLJames:

To see RC practice as terrifying is to be terrified of the unknown - you obviously don’t understand what RC really believes since we have 1.2 billion Catholics world wide and as the largest Christian faith it would not be so popular if it were terrifying

Do you think the majority of RC’s are Catholic because of agreement or culture?

Perhaps you are claustrophobic of being in crowds?

Is size an argument for or against truth? or maybe a cautionary sign as the narrow path leads to truth and few find it??

It is NOT a luck of when one dies. The idea is to not be in sin so you have NO chance of dieing in sin.

Yet all continue to sin, and the OP reflects the fear intrinsic to your religion.

If on the other hand you are shopping for a SYSTEM that let’s you sin and think you have a free-ticket to salvation is is YOU who are playing Russian Roulette with YOUR salvation since anyone who dies with unforgiven mortal sins goes to hell

I sincerely grieve that “I do not do what I want to do, but what I hate to do” yet I must cling to Christ’s mercy on the day of judgement for I do not know what else to do.

True Catholics have NO fear of salvation

Is the originally poster a false Catholic??

By this I mean those who say “I believe” but do not obey him and void sin and who do not try to “be holy as your heavenly father is holy” (going to confession often to confess sins and repenting and doing penance).

I only strongly disagree with what is in your parenthesis.

Biggie:

When my words and my deeds do not line up, I am in effect saying to the Lord, “Don’t mind what I am doing, Lord, mind what I’m saying.”

Yet Paul could not do as he wished. I should rest my salvation on works that I am unable to make sufficient or good?? Instead, why not rest on mercy and faith and then try my best in gratitude and love as the Evangelical teaches??

Finally, without an appreciation of the value of one’s deeds, one is deprived of an appreciation of the value of suffering inherent in life. Just how exactly does one find meaning in it other than joined to the suffering of Jesus and therefore of redemptive value?

Please elaborate.

And… congratulations … dad!

Thank you. I am truly blessed.

Thanks,
Tim

 

[Janet1983]

Your ignorance of the Church you claim to have once been a part of is incredible. I would suggest you actually read what Catholics actually believe before you make such statements.

Oh really?
What do you consider untrue about my assessment?

Here are some links to the Catechism… Each link is only one number so it is not too much to read… just saving space…

Images
Prayer to the Saints
Rosary
Indulgences for the dead
Improper use of the saints name is blasphemy too… and they call this the 2nd commandment…
More “blasphemy” against the Saints and Mary?
Baptism, Confirmation, Matrimony, Holy Orders, prayer, alms-giving, pilgrimage, etc.
Sacraments as preparation for heaven
Sacraments are necessary for salvation
Mary tells her Son what to do… We could ask her instead of asking the Lord?
Mary was taken up with body and soul… Now that’s special… should we now pray to her?
It is a sin to consider oneself saved and one the way to heaven without personal merit…

Do you wish me to continue? I can base my points on the Catechism…
Well let me add this notion before I send this off:

GOD:

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Ephesians 2:8-9

 

[CentralFLJames]

CentralFLJames:
Do you think the majority of RC’s are Catholic because of agreement or culture?

Catholicism is its own culture - We are (1 Peter 2:9) A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God’s OWN POSSESSION. We live among various secular-nations that embrace to greater or lessor degree Christianity as well as those countries not Christian - like the USA is no longer Christian.

So its a hard question to answer. Right now, sadly, I’d have to say the majority of Catholics are cultural Catholics but God will fix that soon enough and purify His Church as he always does. All we need is a remnant of the faith to re-seed from generation to generation and advance God’s Providence.

Is size an argument for or against truth? or maybe a cautionary sign as the narrow path leads to truth and few find it??

I have often said that Truth is not held hostage to a self-serving majority rule where a majority of the people can vote to hire or fire their own ministers to suit what they want to hear. This is exactly the problem with Protestantism - one either Church shops to hear what they want to hear or fires and hires a new minister or starts their own church to advance what they themselves believe.

But your logic is wrong if you want to use smallness in numbers as a metric for accurately accessing the true Church since we were told it would start off as a mustard seed and the Kingdom would soon grow and overtake the world. A person who is born into God’s Kingdom already is in the Kingdom and the path is not narrow since he is among the predominant wheat which overcomes the lessor tare and is advancing more rapidly in virtue. If we were using “few” as a marker of true faith then we would have to accept all the small obscure and peculiar religions of the world as the True Faith and they would all be fighting among themselves killing each other to reducing their numbers to prove that theory - up to even committing suicide. Hmm, kind of like Jim Jones or the Branch Davidians did. A small or “few” metric puts one into an attrition race with the smallness of such as these: Baha’i, Black Muslims, Branch Davidians, Christian Scientist, Hare Krishna, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Moonies, Mormons, Rastafarianism, Sacred Mushroom of the Cross, SATANISM, Shamanism, Sufism, Unitarians , Wiccans, etc.

[cont]

James

 

[CentralFLJames]

[from prior]

Yet all continue to sin, and the OP reflects the fear intrinsic to your religion.

You are projecting YOUR own fears and observations into the OP and this is a strawman. You can’t speak for the OPs fears real or imagined. Even if there was fear - fear is healthy and what can drive us toward a healthy relationship with God not away from God. The Law is the handmaid of Grace. The law causes one to fall and become humble. It convicts and makes one feel guilty - it is Heaven’s Hound and how God finds each of us and calls us to Himself since we soon see from broken pride and fear of guilt and punishment that we are utterly doomed unless God is merciful. Thus the narrow path is the hard and stony surface of the stone tablets [decalogue] we talk on under foot. But it is the spirit of God, Jesus Himself, who lifts us up and guides us over the hard and narrow pathway. Deviate but a little and one is in a pit. But God is there to rescue and that guilt draws us ever back to Him. Heaven’s Hound always finds us and gets us back on the path. The narrow path of course is The Way of the Cross. The path is narrow but we follow right behind Christ and His disciples in narrow succession in single file (the gate is quite narrow) and we must be ORDERED right behind the Good Shepherd (and His Vicar - who also shepherds in Christ’s absence). Thus MANY can be saved on the narrow path if they follow in orderly manner in single file and don’t deviate. But if we do deviate or trip - call out to one’s fellows (your Chrisian brothers) and one will be found or God will come get you Himself.

Our only substantial fear in Catholicism is not attaining the fullest and highest purpose God has called us to be. We don’t just want salvation - we want to actually bring more to God and have more than just ourselves to show for the talents God has given us. We would fear to underperform our purpose to have our talents taken away and given to somone more worthy of His higher graces. We want to be more than just “the least in heaven” - we want to bring God a large return on His grace.

All that said, DON’T confuse fear of not attaining salvation for a good Holy Fear of God - which is very good and keeps us on our toes and wanting to please God.
There are dozens of verses showing how fear of the Lord is almost a virtue and a very good thing. Virtually all Catholic Saints feared God as much as they Loved God.

*2 Chron 19:9 You must serve faithfully and wholeheartedly in the fear of the LORD.
Prob 8:13 To **fear the LORD *is to hate evil; I hate pride and arrogance, evil behavior. [ed: in other words OSAS is a lie if you think you get a ticket to sin and do evil]
Prov 19:23 The fear of the LORD leads to life: Then one rests content, untouched by trouble.
Job 28:28 fear of the Lord–that is wisdom, and to shun evil is understanding
Rev 15:4 Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify Your name?
Prov 10:27 The fear of the LORD adds length to life, but the years of the wicked are cut short.

Is the originally poster a false Catholic??

Why would you presume that or ask me that? I don’t think he is a false Catholic.
You need to undertand that Catholics are all in various states of sanctification and perfection of faith. There are over a million posts here on CAF. Go back and analyze those and tell me more than 2-3% are about Catholics expression fear of their salvation? Most are questions about how to be better Catholics since they want to please God to the extent that they can. Picking one OP out of thousands and then projecting your own bias into what his interior state is is just a misplaced suspicion. And that is the entire problem with Protestantism - IT WAS FORMED ON A HERMENEUTIC OF PARANOIA AND MISTRUST. So to an informed Catholic who knows Protestant history, hearing Protestants call Catholicism fear based religion is just eyebrow raising to say the least.

I only strongly disagree with what is in your parenthesis.

We can fix that if you can elaborate on what you are afraid of here.

James