How does a Catholic increase the chance of getting into Heaven?

[JustaServant]

“Rolling on the floor laughing” (ROTFL) at God’s people is a work but it is not a good work and while some might consider it a variation of a traditional “holy roller” these man-made traditions will not get you into heaven.

We agree that no one gets to heaven unless there are accompanying good works that ratify a person’s claim of belief in Jesus as Lord. But Catholics also know that good works are only “good” if they are supernaturally given works of grace by God. Catholics also find it no laughing matter than those in grave post-baptismal sins who are not apostolically forgiven in the sacrament of confession or by perfect contrition and repentance (itself impossible without God’s grace) can NOT do any good supernatural work that will be accredited to his verification of faith.

You seem to think that heaven is some kind of cracker-jack prize that if somone only believes enough they win – kind of like hitting the carnival bell with the big mallet as hard as one can to ring the bell. I am here to tell you there are no “magic words” that open heavens door to you. No sir, a simple “I believe” is not going to get you into heaven. You must believe that Jesus is Lord but you must also serve Jesus as Lord and obey Him. In other words Lip-Service Christians who say one thing and do another are just like those who Jesus told us “not everyone who CALLS me Lord Lord will enter my Kingdom but HE who DOES MY Father’s will”. Notice that the words “DOES” is VERB which is a WORK. But doing God’s will also means obeying Christ’s commandments and one of those commandments to all Christians is to follow His appointed Church leaders - the Apostolic successors.

“Those that reject you reject ME and He who Sent ME”.

No one gets to heaven by rejection The Catholic Church and the pope and its bishops.

So your laughing at your own disobedience and ignorance here and need to sober up.

James

Fundamentalists build church buildings, not hospitals.

 

[Mick_Taylor]

What does a catholic need to do to increase their possible of getting into heaven when the die ???

thnx

Hi eclipse,

There is only one thing you need to do to go to heaven when you die, and that is to believe in Jesus–in who He is, and what He has done for your salvation. As simple as this sounds, it is impossible for dead fallen sinners to believe unless God supernaturally intervenes (by His grace) in their soul to make dead sinners alive by the power of His grace. Through Adam we are all born dead in sin and hostile to God, and thus, objects of His wrath. It is not by our own free will that we receive or accept the free gift of salvation, but only by the will of God, who will have mercy on whom He will have mercy. If you are interested, I can provide some bible passages that support this. May God bless you!

 

[CentralFLJames]

Hi eclipse,

There is only one thing you need to do to go to heaven when you die, and that is to believe in Jesus–in who He is, and what He has done for your salvation. As simple as this sounds, it is impossible for dead fallen sinners to believe unless God supernaturally intervenes (by His grace) in their soul to make dead sinners alive by the power of His grace. Through Adam we are all born dead in sin and hostile to God, and thus, objects of His wrath. It is not by our own free will that we receive or accept the free gift of salvation, but only by the will of God, who will have mercy on whom He will have mercy. If you are interested, I can provide some bible passages that support this. May God bless you!

This is not a Christian teaching - this is a “neo-Christian” fantasy that evolved from the errors of the Protestant heretics from the 1500s. This teaching was never taught by a single apostle nor by any person in The Church for 1400 years until this new heresy was started by spiritually and mentally depraved men seeking a new Christianity which was easier. There is not a single shred of historicial evidence that proves or even suggests that The Lord or the apostles or the early church taught any of this nonsence. And I challenge you to prove that anyone in the early church ever taught or believed this modern fabrication.

You speak a number of complete falsehoods:

1. One only needs to believe in JESUS - FALSE - even the demons believe in Jesus but unless you believe him beyond a lip-service sort of belief and actually obey The Lord as THE LORD and Do the Will of the Father AND follow the leadership of His Church (the Catholic Bishops and pope) AND avoid all serious sin (fornication, spreading heretical teachings, abortion, masturbation, adultery, etc.) AND confess you sins to an apostolic priest when you do commit grave post-baptismal sins (Or make a PERFECT act of contrition and REPENT) you WILL go to hell if you die in that state of disobedience.
2. God wills for all men to be saved and gives EACH person sufficient actual grace necessary to repent and accept Him. There is no such concept as a person being created just to be damned. You seem to imply that God destines some to hell which is a lie right out of the pit of hell and what Satan would love you to teach to cause people to dispair and lost their faith in God.
3. Man is NOT created in a state of wrath before God. Man has a fallen nature and the stain of Adam’s first sin but God foresaw from the very beginning that man would fall and had a plan for His salvation. That is a portrait of a loving God not a God of wrath. If God wanted wrath he would have destroyed Cain or He would have destroyed the race of Humans immediately from the moment they fell. You have a very unhealthy view of God and really should not be pushing your personal nonsence on others.
4. It is not by our own free will that we receive or accept the free gift of salvation, but only by the will of God, who will have mercy on whom He will have mercy?
   This utter garbage. God wills for all men to be saved. God will show mercy on those who themselves have shown mercy and to those who ask for it out of sincerity. We are not mindless robots and slaves to grace as you would want to reinvent mankind here. If that were true there would be no reason at all for Christ to even have suffered and died. He would have just zappped us all with grace and “beamed us all up”. Without freewill one can not love God - ergo one must choose God out of love and stay in God out of love.

Someone has taught you some very wrong things.

James

James

 

[UtSuShImI]

but gee, if you accept Jesus Christ and then you stray away from him, and that means you didn’t accept him as you savior … then you are condemned although you are, say, twelve at the time? what if you change your mind when you’re fifty?

It depends on you if you stray away from him!
If you accept him as your savior but strayed away, its called Back Sliding
You can still go back to his path but it will be hard…
Even God gets tired forgiving…

 

[UtSuShImI]

1. One only needs to believe in JESUS - FALSE - even the demons believe in Jesus but unless you believe him beyond a lip-service sort of belief and actually obey The Lord as THE LORD and Do the Will of the Father AND follow the leadership of His Church (the Catholic Bishops and pope) AND avoid all serious sin (fornication, spreading heretical teachings, abortion, masturbation, adultery, etc.) AND confess you sins to an apostolic priest when you do commit grave post-baptismal sins (Or make a PERFECT act of contrition and REPENT) you WILL go to hell if you die in that state of disobedience.

The robber at the right of Jesus, he believed before he died. and there was no time to CONFESS SINS TO AN “APOSTOLIC” PRIEST

1. God wills for all men to be saved and gives EACH person sufficient actual grace necessary to repent and accept Him. There is no such concept as a person being created just to be damned. You seem to imply that God destines some to hell which is a lie right out of the pit of hell and what Satan would love you to teach to cause people to dispair and lost their faith in God.

I DID NOT say anything about God damning people… In the beginning, Adam and Eve were created SINLESS! But were tempted by the serpent! What did you think why they sinned? Because they ate of the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil or because they DISOBEYED God’s command not to eat from it? Anyway, since then, men began to SIN, u remember that there were so many people sinning that he flooded the whole world right? That means God was/is angry at sin. So he sent his son to save us from sin. He gave us the gift of eternal life. But it was FOR US IF WE WERE TO ACCEPT IT OR NOT.
Example: Imagine that you and your friend went outside to the mall, he bought so much that he didn’t have enough money for eating, so you give him some money. He might say that “Don’t worry, im not hungry anyway…” or “Thank you very much! YOU ARE A TRUE FRIEND…” God gave us free will for everything! You think like a muslim! “Allah” will come to the world to force those who are not muslims to convert themselves blah blah blah!
Its for us to accept the gift of eternal life or not!

1. Man is NOT created in a state of wrath before God. Man has a fallen nature and the stain of Adam’s first sin but God foresaw from the very beginning that man would fall and had a plan for His salvation. That is a portrait of a loving God not a God of wrath. If God wanted wrath he would have destroyed Cain or He would have destroyed the race of Humans immediately from the moment they fell. You have a very unhealthy view of God and really should not be pushing your personal nonsence on others.

Clearly you misunderstood my words… You are fusing “wrath” into it…
God knew what to do even before the first sin. If i was saying things about God’s Wrath then why would i say anything about eternal life anyway? The Old Testaments are all about rules… thats why God didn’t destroy us because he loves us, he gave us another chance, another example for Noah… God saw that the world was full of sin, he was going to destroy it. Then he saw Noah’ Heart. It was pure in God’s Eyes. He gave us another chance. Then he gave us the rainbow to for remembrance that God will never flood the earth again…He loved us enough not to destroy us! In the New Testament, it is now by the grace of the Lord. God sent his son to give us the gift of eternal life! To spread the word of God. By abolishing MAN MADE IDOLS NO MATTER WHO THEY MAY BE!
Acts 13:51-14:19: While Paul was on Lystra. He was met with sacrifices. Paul says: "YOU MUST NOT WORSHIP US! WE ARE MEN JUST LIKE YOU!. But then i see many idols in Catholics churches…
What an unhealthy view of God’s teaching…

1. It is not by our own free will that we receive or accept the free gift of salvation, but only by the will of God, who will have mercy on whom He will have mercy?
   This utter garbage. God wills for all men to be saved. God will show mercy on those who themselves have shown mercy and to those who ask for it out of sincerity. We are not mindless robots and slaves to grace as you would want to reinvent mankind here. If that were true there would be no reason at all for Christ to even have suffered and died. He would have just zappped us all with grace and “beamed us all up”. Without freewill one can not love God - ergo one must choose God out of love and stay in God out of love.

A Muslim Teaching of “Allah” FORCE!..
God gave us free will…In everything we do… Many are called BUT FEW GET UP!
God gave us will to either stray far from him or go with him.
To worship him or not.
To believe in him or not.
Remember: The Old Testament is all about God’s Rules! Which is in-
The New Testament since it is all about God’s Grace.
The Sealed Tomb
In Jerusalem Friday morning, Jesus Christ of Nazareth is crucified outside of the walls of Jerusalem. Suddenly an earthquake rocks Jerusalem… The Veil before the most holiest palce in the temple has been ripped. Which means that the Son of God has given his life to pay for ALL sins of the world. The veil in the temple NO LONGER seperates man from God for Jesus has opened the way to the Father.

Someone has taught you some very wrong things.

Worshipping the Pope is A wrong thing…
I Corinthians: Paul’s Letter:
"I beg of you my brothers,do not quarrel and divide the church. There is only one head of the Christian Church–Christ! It was Christ–not Paul or Apollos or Peter(who Catholics made the Pope-leader of the Church)–who died for you on the Cross.
James.
You people of Rome(spiritually speaking) crucified Jesus and now you believe in him? What kind of people are you? You people act like you didn’t crucify the Son of God!

 

[JustaServant]

You people of Rome(spiritually speaking) crucified Jesus and now you believe in him? What kind of people are you? You people act like you didn’t crucify the Son of God!

Wow. We got a live one here.
What an incredibly reckless comment.
I would suggest you tone down your words before you’re bannished.

 

[CentralFLJames]

The robber at the right of Jesus, he believed before he died. and there was no time to CONFESS SINS TO AN “APOSTOLIC” PRIEST

Goodness gracious UtSuShlml, this is just a completely naive & unschooled projection of one single event to the exclusion of hundreds of others in the NT bible that leaves your view out hanging with the theif on the wrong side of the cross where the thief can’t recognize the truth that was placed right before him. How do you account for all the other verses you ignored to misapply this example of how sin is forgiven (e.g.Matt 16:19, John 20:22) ? This story is about a baptism of desire and is not a general case about how one is forgiven of post-baptismal sins.

The good and bad thief were present at the crucifixation to ratify that sin’s wage is death and that it is just that men should die for their sins. The Good Thief said as much when he said:

*“Have you no fear of God, for you are subject to the same condemnation? 41 And indeed, we have been condemned justly, for the sentence we received corresponds to our crimes, but this man has done nothing criminal.” *

But before God the Good Thief confessed that Jesus was Just and not deserving of death as they both were and then asked that Jesus remember him - a recognition of Jesus’ Lordship and an appeal to Mercy.

You need to understand that to even speak while under the pain of crucifixation was agonizing because it took a lot of energy to get enough air in one’s lungs to speak. Crucifixion was slow suffocation. One had to press their back to the cross and use their legs to lift up high enough to take each breath. Each new breath was agonizing due to the pain of lifting oneself up under exhaustion and the pain of the wounds to the limbs fastened to the cross under weight. It was also mental torture since it made one want to despair and defeat one’s desire to live and to commit suicide by giving up against the inevitable and die as one’s own body weight strangled the person (like slow hanging but without breaking the neck). The bad thief used his precious breath to curse and mock Jesus (a sure sign of an unrepentant soul hardened to sin even with death imminent and no concern for his eternal judgement). But the Good Thief used his scarce breath and dieing moments to empathize with Christ’s sufferings and to defend Christ and acknowledge Him as a just man worthy of respect and of Father’s Kingdom. The Good Thief thus expressed through severe suffrage and literal empathy with Christ’s suffering that went well beyond mere words that He believed in Jesus and received what we call a “baptism by desire”. He literally suffer with and in Christ - as we are all called to do in baptism.

This “baptism of desire” is a supernatural God given baptism for those who desire Christ but never had an opportunity to receive one in the normative way. It is also fitting to acknowledge that Christ of course can forgive sins by pure act of will and assent and grant mercy at his own discretion. And this was clearly and unmistakably Christ’s will as is implicit in His words “today you will be with me in paradise”. But this was done directly in the presence of The Lord not by some ambiguous altar call or sinner’s prayer which has no biblical basis for anything related to assurances of being forgiven of sins.

*Matt 16:19 “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

John 20:22-23 And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 “If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.” *

ONLY the apostles and their successors (installed by an apostolic blessing and a physical laying on of hands by an existing apostolic authority) passes on this authority (ref. Timothy and Mathias and others). ONLY Catholics (and Orthodox) have retained this continuously unbroken apostolic succession and spiritual authority through its bishops and priests. Protestants have tried to break into the kingdom of heaven through another unapproved way like a thief and we know that God will punish those who try to enter around his personally appointed shepherd - Peter’s successors. God can and will grant mercy to those who knock persistently and do not know that they need to enter through His Church but God will not permit the Kingdom to be stolen by lip-service professions of belief. Protestants have tried to steal the spiritual authority to be forgiven of sins in a way that God never approved - by “just believing” that their sins are forgiven is not going to cut it. This is all a recent fabrication never before heard on the planet until the Protestants invent it out of thin air a few hundred years ago. No doubt many Protestants are now living in unforgiven grave post-baptismal sins and many are at substantial risk of going to hell unless they repent and confess their sins before an apostolic authority. The only other way to be forgiven is through perfect contrition which is impossible without supernatural grace and presumed to very rare.

John 10:1 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber.

[continued]

James

 

[CentralFLJames]

I DID NOT say anything about God damning people…

What did you think why they sinned?

Anyway, since then, men began to SIN, u remember that there were so many people sinning that he flooded the whole world right? That means God was/is angry at sin. So he sent his son to save us from sin. He gave us the gift of eternal life. But it was FOR US IF WE WERE TO ACCEPT IT OR NOT.

You think like a muslim! “Allah” will come to the world to force those who are not muslims to convert themselves blah blah blah!

Its for us to accept the gift of eternal life or not!

Wow - I don’t know how to answer here. I think like a Muslim??? That’s pretty funny actually. Are you a Muslim to know how a Muslim thinks? Have you actually ever read the Koran? They don’t have any notion of being forgiven nor have any way of being assured of salvation unless they are martyred. My friend trust me - I utterly reject the Muslim mentality since it is just the opposite extreme from Protestantism which will have it that God MUST accept everyone into heaven that says the magic pass phrase - “I believe”. Both are false teachings.

Adam & Eve sinned because they wanted to be as powerful as God just like Satan wanted. That is a sin of pride where no one wants to depend on anyone and wants to trust only in themselves.

God permitted the deluge because man degraded so much that he was destroying all the natural order - the floods were CAUSED by MAN’s SINS! Sin has consequences to not only one’s self but to everyone around us as well as to the natural order. This is why in the last days when sin is at its zenith there will be unimaginable earth quakes, floods, natural disasters and calamities of every kind - even to the stars above. It’s all cause and effect. But the flood was to also prefigure how man could die to self and be reborn in that death as through baptism. There was new start for humanity in Noah’s descendants but you see immediately man sinned again (Ham) because of his original sin. Jesus is the new Adam that we are born into during baptism that permits us to be elevated into a new human nature at the completion of our sanctification - which happens at death.

[continued]

James

 

[CentralFLJames]

Clearly you misunderstood my words… You are fusing “wrath” into it…
God knew what to do even before the first sin. If i was saying things about God’s Wrath then why would i say anything about eternal life anyway? The Old Testaments are all about rules… thats why God didn’t destroy us because he loves us, he gave us another chance, another example for Noah… God saw that the world was full of sin, he was going to destroy it. Then he saw Noah’ Heart. It was pure in God’s Eyes. He gave us another chance. Then he gave us the rainbow to for remembrance that God will never flood the earth again…He loved us enough not to destroy us! In the New Testament, it is now by the grace of the Lord. God sent his son to give us the gift of eternal life! To spread the word of God. By abolishing MAN MADE IDOLS NO MATTER WHO THEY MAY BE!
Acts 13:51-14:19: While Paul was on Lystra. He was met with sacrifices. Paul says: "YOU MUST NOT WORSHIP US! WE ARE MEN JUST LIKE YOU!. But then i see many idols in Catholics churches…
What an unhealthy view of God’s teaching…

But I do understand your words - your problem is you are all over the board with snippets of versation sort of teachings common to the Protestant style. You lack holistic insight and can’t see the big picture and how all the bible accounts fit together as a seamless garment of truth that can’t divided against itself.

The Old Testament accounts are more than rules - they are prefiguring accounts of what is now in motion through Jesus and His Church. It is not “another chance” as you say. God does not play games of chance. He has Divine Providence that is already working toward an objective end and He knows all outcomes. God’s Mercy is not limited to “one more chance” - every heart beat of given life is an opportunity for mercy and to know the truth. God does not change His mind - don’t over read human attributes into God since God is unchanging. The divine authors used human expressions to show that God would hear our prayers and respond favorably to repentance etc. But that mercy is forever unchanging. The only thing that changes is how we humans respond to God’s constant call to repentance.

The NT is a new teaching on God’s grace this is true. But it is also a teaching full of rules and rituals and customs - you just don’t see them since you have been blinded by false doctrines. Recollect the rituals such as “foot washing”, breaking of bread, daily prayer, public confession of sin, laying on of hands to ordain new apostolic successors, anathematizing those who teach a false gospel (Gal 1:9), reading the word of God and teaching before the assembly, alms giving, anointing the sick with oil etc. etc. etc. The rules are also quite plenty: Love God above self and neighbor too, feed and help the hungry, poor, widows ( a work), forgive each other their sins, listening to the apostolic authorities, carrying one’s cross (a spiritual work), praying for one another (another work), being baptised, eating the bread of life, repenting, doing penance ( a work), obeying all the commandments (the Decalogue included) etc.

But how strange that you would call a statue in a Catholic Church an idol??? Would you call the Statue of Liberty an idol? Would you “swear allegiance to the flag” and make it an idol? Would you hold up the bible as an idol and swear on it? What about that pagan wedding band used in marriage ceremonies or the pagan unity candle? Do you blow out your birthday candles and make a wish?

A thing becomes an idol only when it is worshiped as a thing equal to or greater than God or becomes a fetish or charm. No Catholic worships a statue and if he did so commits a mortal sin that puts him at risk of going to hell. This is against Church teaching.

A Muslim Teaching of “Allah” FORCE!..
God gave us free will…In everything we do… Many are called BUT FEW GET UP!

Huh? No Catholic teaches that God forces us to love him? What are you saying here?

Worshipping the Pope is A wrong thing…

You people of Rome(spiritually speaking) crucified Jesus and now you believe in him? What kind of people are you? You people act like you didn’t crucify the Son of God!

This is ridiculous. No one worships the pope except those who spend so much time as you do worrying that he is worshipped.

You seem to be full of contempt for the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. We are the apostolic church we did not in any way crucify Christ any more so than St. John and Mary at the foot of the cross did. But in a spiritual sense every single human on the planet crucified The Lord by our sins and disobedience.

Time to get with the program and becomes Catholic UtSuShiml.

James

 

[Tanner9188]

Well there are a lot things they can DO to increase the chances…

• Be baptised (usually prerequisite to become catholic…
• Be confirmed
• Keep the 10 commandments and the great commandment
• Pray to God
• Pray to Mary
• Pray to the other saints and archangels (e.g. Michael, the Archangel)
• Go to confession once a week (well at least once a year)
• Receive Communion once a week (better: every day… at least once a year though)
• Fast during lent
• Get married in the Church or abstain from sexual contact
• If married only have sex for reproductive reasons
• Give to the poor
• Visit the sick
• Pay for a mass being said for a deceased relative and hope others do the same for you and a lot…
• Go on a pilgrimage (Lourdes, Fátima, Vatican City and Santiago de Compostela are really great… Jerusalem and Bethlehem make a good place to go to too…)
• Pray the rosary
• Receive indulgences that are formally approved by the pope… (follow the directions and get out of purgatory faster)
• Pray for the intention of the pope
• Believe all Dogmas and Doctrines of the Church
• Stay within the Church

Not saying that all Catholics do all of this, but it increases the chances…

Too much work; I’m tired just looking at the list of things to do…need a break.

 

[w_stewart]

The robber at the right of Jesus, he believed before he died. and there was no time to CONFESS SINS TO AN “APOSTOLIC” PRIEST

Why would he need an apostolic priest when the High Priest was there listening his repentance?

 

[w_stewart]

Even God gets tired forgiving…

Even this was not a teaching of Christ.

 

[CentralFLJames]

Too much work; I’m tired just looking at the list of things to do…need a break.

That’s because you are out of shape and too accustomed to the easy-believism that Protestants are teaching as a substitute for true Christian belief. There will be plenty of time to rest in eternity and no one too lazy to carry one’s own cross and not willing to obey Christ’s commandments, yoke themselves to Christ’s relatively easy burden, carry their cross and accept the disciplines He gives us through His Church will be found worthy of heaven. Run the race to win. No one carried into the Promised Land unless he walks the walk and talks the talk.
1 Cor 11:32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.

Matthew 11:29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS. 30 “For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

Matthew 16:24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and **take up his cross **and follow Me.

Hebrews 12:6 For those whom the Lord loves He disciplines, and he scourges every son whom he receives."

Hebrews 12:1 Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us

1 Corinthians 9:24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.
James

 

[Tanner9188]

That’s because you are out of shape and too accustomed to the easy-believism that Protestants are teaching as a substitute for true Christian belief. There will be plenty of time to rest in eternity and no one too lazy to carry one’s own cross and not willing to obey Christ’s commandments, yoke themselves to Christ’s relatively easy burden, carry their cross and accept the disciplines He gives us through His Church will be found worthy of heaven. Run the race to win. No one carried into the Promised Land unless he walks the walk and talks the talk.
1 Cor 11:32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.

Matthew 11:29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS. 30 “For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

Matthew 16:24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself*, and **take up his cross **and follow Me.

Hebrews 12:6 For those whom the Lord loves He disciplines, and he scourges every son whom he receives."

Hebrews 12:1 Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us

1 Corinthians 9:24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.

James

**
I think I’ll stay away from the works-salvation; no one ever got or will ever get to heaven on that basis; just ask the Jews of Jesus day or any period of Israel for that matter. I fully trust in Christ because He said that He is the way, the truth and the life; furthermore His yoke is easy and His burden is light.

Has anyone ever examined the difference between being declared “righteous” versus “salvation”? It is very interesting and they are the positive and negative of each other.**

 

[Tanner9188]

That’s because you are out of shape and too accustomed to the easy-believism that Protestants are teaching as a substitute for true Christian belief. There will be plenty of time to rest in eternity and no one too lazy to carry one’s own cross and not willing to obey Christ’s commandments, yoke themselves to Christ’s relatively easy burden, carry their cross and accept the disciplines He gives us through His Church will be found worthy of heaven. Run the race to win. No one carried into the Promised Land unless he walks the walk and talks the talk.
1 Cor 11:32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.

Matthew 11:29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS. 30 “For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

Matthew 16:24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself*, and **take up his cross **and follow Me.

Hebrews 12:6 For those whom the Lord loves He disciplines, and he scourges every son whom he receives."

Hebrews 12:1 Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us

1 Corinthians 9:24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.

James

Anyone can throw out Scripture w/o explanation. Rom 6:14-16, 1 Cor 7:11-12, & Col 3:1-6

 

[CentralFLJames]

Anyone can throw out Scripture w/o explanation. Rom 6:14-16, 1 Cor 7:11-12, & Col 3:1-6

I guess you didn’t see the entire paragraph I had in front of the vereses that demonstrat my point that one can’t gain heaven by a simply profession of faith???

**
I think I’ll stay away from the works-salvation; no one ever got or will ever get to heaven on that basis; just ask the Jews of Jesus day or any period of Israel for that matter. I fully trust in Christ because He said that He is the way, the truth and the life; furthermore His yoke is easy and His burden is light.

Has anyone ever examined the difference between being declared “righteous” versus “salvation”? It is very interesting and they are the positive and negative of each other.**

Tanner somone has given you a very catchy phrase called “salvation by works” which bears no meaning to anything that Catholics teach or what I just told you. It’s a convenient scape goat to allow one to fabricate a strawman to give an excuse from having to confront the clear truth; a convenient way to hide from the the many verses that prove you must do more than just profess a simply belief that Christ can save you. This could be turned around on you and one could just claim your profession of faith is just another version of a work’s based salvation. That is, you are doing the mental work of coming to belief and then doing the simple work of the tongue to say it. In your works based salvation its just a one time legal declaration with a simple “I believe” and then you are free to do anything you want since in your system sin is just a figment of your imagination and you can not longer do any wrong as a believer. This is of course obsence to common standards of judgement. Since this kind of easy-believism permits sin to become a statement of faith and trust in The Lord. But this nonsence since Christ told us we must strive to be holy as our heavenly father is holy. Faith must be tested and one is not saved until God judges them saved. Contrary to the error of Protestant thinking God is NOT required to declare you saved at the instant you say you believe. Nope. You must run the good race all the way to completion just as Paul taught. Remember that. No one who sins gravely and does not repent each time will not be permitted to enter God’s Kingdom with the magic words “I believe”.

James

 

[Eucharisted]

What does a catholic need to do to increase their possible of getting into heaven when the die ???

thnx

Don’t seek rewards, seek instead Jesus.

Love, love, love.

 

[Tanner9188]

I guess you didn’t see the entire paragraph I had in front of the vereses that demonstrat my point that one can’t gain heaven by a simply profession of faith???
Tanner somone has given you a very catchy phrase called “salvation by works” which bears no meaning to anything that Catholics teach or what I just told you. It’s a convenient scape goat to allow one to fabricate a strawman to give an excuse from having to confront the clear truth; a convenient way to hide from the the many verses that prove you must do more than just profess a simply belief that Christ can save you. This could be turned around on you and one could just claim your profession of faith is just another version of a work’s based salvation. That is, you are doing the mental work of coming to belief and then doing the simple work of the tongue to say it. In your works based salvation its just a one time legal declaration with a simple “I believe” and then you are free to do anything you want since in your system sin is just a figment of your imagination and you can not longer do any wrong as a believer. This is of course obsence to common standards of judgement. Since this kind of easy-believism permits sin to become a statement of faith and trust in The Lord. But this nonsence since Christ told us we must strive to be holy as our heavenly father is holy. Faith must be tested and one is not saved until God judges them saved. Contrary to the error of Protestant thinking God is NOT required to declare you saved at the instant you say you believe. Nope. You must run the good race all the way to completion just as Paul taught. Remember that. No one who sins gravely and does not repent each time will not be permitted to enter God’s Kingdom with the magic words “I believe”.
James

**
What is easy believism in your world? Works are what your Church; are those rituals and traditions one must do to be in “effectual good standing” with God.

“efficacious signs of grace, instituted by Christ and entrusted to the Church, by which divine life is dispensed to us. The visible rites by which the sacraments are celebrated signify and make present the graces proper to each sacrament. They bear fruit in those who receive them with the required dispositions.” - Catechism of the Catholic Church 1131

These are requirements the Church has dictated that must be “performed” by each Catholic in order to have “saving” grace dispensed and to be effectual to the Catholic laity toward salvation.

Nothing of the sort is found in Scripture concerning salvation; it is 100% divine choice and it effect is from God through the death of Jesus. Since a person has received this divine saving grace based on God’s effectual calling; the person’s heart for repentance, also 100% the work of God, leads this person to God. This repentance, remorse and crying our for mercy is a gift of God to the called. For no one would turn to God, if God had not first turned into them. Once justified, a new nature emerges, one that has a thirst and hungriness for holiness; another gift of God. The perseverance of the called is effected by God; another 100% divine grace bestowed upon a believer. At the end; the glorification is also 100% divine in nature.

The only free-will we have before a sovereign God is to rebell against Him; something that a believer will be chastened for and the unregenerate will be condemned for.

There are only two types of religion in the entire world, the religion of human achievement and the religion of divine accomplishment. I choose the religion of divine accomplishment.

Keep cooperating with saving grace and working out your own salvation with fear and trembling; I will rest on the merits of Christ; for I have none to offer.**

 

[Mick_Taylor]

This is not a Christian teaching - this is a “neo-Christian” fantasy that evolved from the errors of the Protestant heretics from the 1500s. This teaching was never taught by a single apostle nor by any person in The Church for 1400 years until this new heresy was started by spiritually and mentally depraved men seeking a new Christianity which was easier. There is not a single shred of historicial evidence that proves or even suggests that The Lord or the apostles or the early church taught any of this nonsence. And I challenge you to prove that anyone in the early church ever taught or believed this modern fabrication.

You speak a number of complete falsehoods:

1. One only needs to believe in JESUS - FALSE - even the demons believe in Jesus but unless you believe him beyond a lip-service sort of belief and actually obey The Lord as THE LORD and Do the Will of the Father AND follow the leadership of His Church (the Catholic Bishops and pope) AND avoid all serious sin (fornication, spreading heretical teachings, abortion, masturbation, adultery, etc.) AND confess you sins to an apostolic priest when you do commit grave post-baptismal sins (Or make a PERFECT act of contrition and REPENT) you WILL go to hell if you die in that state of disobedience.

I never said that anyone is saved by a merely intellectual knowledge of God’s existence. As you’ve pointed out, even the demons believe that Jesus exists, but they are certainly not saved. Now let’s examine what God says:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Romans 4:1-5 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. What does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.

Romans 10:1-4 Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Galation 3:1-14 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing? Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard? Consider Abraham: “He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith. All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.” The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The man who does these things will live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.” He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

 

[Mick_Taylor]

1. God wills for all men to be saved and gives EACH person sufficient actual grace necessary to repent and accept Him. There is no such concept as a person being created just to be damned. You seem to imply that God destines some to hell which is a lie right out of the pit of hell and what Satan would love you to teach to cause people to dispair and lost their faith in God.

Romans 9:6-24 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned."In other words, it is not the natural children who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring. For this was how the promise was stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.” Not only that, but Rebekah’s children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?” But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ " Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use? What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?