How does an Orthodox Christian become a Roman-Catholic?

[AndreiCordovan]

No. Baptism is done once. I was an apostate, sadly, and by the grace of God returned, but that doesn’t invalidate the baptism or make it permissible to re-baptize (which, if not conditional, would be a mortal sin, I believe), at least according to what I know and the priest who received me into E Orthodoxy.

Wow, I didn’t know that a re-baptism is a mortal sin!
I certainly don’t want to get re-baptized now that I found out it is considered a mortal sin.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Wow, I didn’t know that a re-baptism is a mortal sin!
I certainly don’t want to get re-baptized now that I found out it is considered a mortal sin.

That is why there is conditional baptism, if there is any doubt about your original baptism.

 

[AndreiCordovan]

That is why there is conditional baptism, if there is any doubt about your original baptism.

I don’t think the Orthodox Church practices the conditional baptism. I have never heard of it.

But thank you for telling me.

 

[Brendan]

]Why is it that important to go to an Eastern Catholic parish? What is wrong with going to a Roman Catholic one?

The large majority of Roman Catholic priests have never even seen a copy of the Code of Canon Law for the Eastern Churchs, let alone read it enough to be familar with the requirement given for bringing converted Orthodox into the Church.

In addition, an Orthodox person who is looking at entering the Catholic Church will enter as an Eastern Catholic into the corresponding sui juris Catholic Church.

That means that,even if he lives right next door to a Roman Catholic parish, he is not canonically a member of that parish, nor is the local Roman Catholic bishop his bishop.

He canonically belongs to the nearest Catholic parish of his sui juris Church, and is a member of the appropriate Eparchy under the Eastern Catholic bishop

Technically, a Roman Catholic priest would not even have the authority to accept this person’s Profession of Faith unless it was duly delegated to that priest by the correct Eastern Catholic bishop.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Technically, a Roman Catholic priest would not even have the authority to accept this person’s Profession of Faith unless it was duly delegated to that priest by the correct Eastern Catholic bishop.

Actually, he can. But the person will still be ascribed to an Eastern Catholic Church. The problem is many RC priests don’t know about this. The problem lies when the person starts seeking Rite-specific Sacraments. Such as marriage, an Eastern Catholic can only be married by a priest and never a deacon. And what if the man seeks Ordination and is ordained into the Latin Church when he should be canonically Eastern?

 

[Contarini]

There are no Eastern Catholic churches in the area where I live. The closes one is 560 miles away.

Are you sure about that?

There’s a Byzantine Catholic church in Cary. Is that 560 miles from you? It’s hard to see, geographically, how it could be. . . .

But of course you want to attend your local parish. I would just encourage you–and I’m pretty sure that the Pope and other representatives of the Catholic Church would say the same thing–to make sure not to turn your back on your Byzantine heritage. Perhaps you could continue to attend Vespers or even Divine Liturgy while receiving communion with Rome.

Some Catholics, I think, would even discourage you from converting at all, saying that you should work for reunion from the Orthodox side. You do have valid bishops and valid sacraments.

There are only Roman-Catholic churches in my city. I have already emailed the priest of the nearest Catholic church. He said I should attend the RCIA classes and after that I need to make a profession of faith and receive the Eucharist. Just as I thought.
Thank you.

It doesn’t really make sense to make an Orthodox Christian go through RCIA, which strictly speaking is for the unbaptized. But I know many parishes just put everyone through it!

Edwin

 

[Brendan]

And what if the man seeks Ordination and is ordained into the Latin Church when he should be canonically Eastern?

That one I have some first hand experience with.

A member of my parish is a Chaldean SubDeacon. When he first came to the US from Iraq (in th 70;s), he lived in an area where there were no Chaldean parishes. His children have been raised in the Roman Church.

So when he moved to Detroit, where there ARE quite a number of Chaldean parishes (and a Chaldean Cathedral), his family remained practiciing in the Latin Rite.

He sought ordination to the Diaconate in the Latin Rite, and was even a member of my class, but it came out that he could not be ordained.

Canon Law (of both Churches) prohibits a bishop from ordaining a member of another sui juris Church without express approval from Rome.

The same is true for clergy wishing to switch sui juris Churches. For a layperson, it simply involves obtaining consent from the two bishops. For clergy, it’s a lot of paperwork sent to Rome, and Rome will only generally act with the consent of the appropriate Partriarch.

And, for some reason, the Patriarch of the Chaldeans seems to be a little busy right now trying to keep his flock in Iraq from being killed by Muslim radicals, so the case of a subdeacon in the US isn’t high on his priority list right now ( imagine that)

 

[Khalid]

The large majority of Roman Catholic priests have never even seen a copy of the Code of Canon Law for the Eastern Churchs

I’m very interested in Canonistics, or whatever the field be named. I didn’t know the was an actual book of Code of Canon Law for Eastern Catholicism. I have the Western versions (the New Commentary, the Code Annotated, the Big Red Book), but have looked for the Code of the Eastern Churches to no avail.

Could you please tell me where I can obtain a copy of the Eastern Code of Canon Law? I would much like it since I am canonically Eastern.

And what if the man seeks Ordination and is ordained into the Latin Church when he should be canonically Eastern?

This has actually become a major issue and stumbling-block for me, as I do so seek.

 

[Brendan]

I’m very interested in Canonistics, or whatever the field be named. I didn’t know the was an actual book of Code of Canon Law for Eastern Catholicism. I have the Western versions (the New Commentary, the Code Annotated, the Big Red Book), but have looked for the Code of the Eastern Churches to no avail…

Here is an online copy in English. I don’t know where to get a print copy

jgray.org/codes/cceo90eng.html

Several of the sui juris Churches have adaptations of the Code, so there might be differences or additions specific to your Church.

 

[ConstantineTG]

This has actually become a major issue and stumbling-block for me, as I do so seek.

Why not seek a transfer to your present Sui Juris? I know there are RCs who have fallen in love with an Eastern Church, been there for years and got a calling. They have actually started formation and is working on their transfer with their current bishop who is helping to facilitate it.

 

[Khalid]

Believe me - I’m trying. The priest of my Melkite parish is being unhelpful (I can’t say I’m very helpful either because it’s not on the bus line and I have no transportation, so I can rarely appear in person: I can afford a trip about once a month or a little less in a cab, $70 round trip) but I won’t go around or above him unless all other options have been exhausted and it is imperative. To do so seems by its nature “Protestant”.

I got the same thing when I wanted to convert to Catholicism: “Are you sure? You sure you don’t want to remain an Orthodox? It’s not good ecumenism to convert. Don’t you want to help heal the rift? What about your Eastern roots?” from priests on both sides.

It’s been and is like walking a tightrope through a maze to get from where I was (Coptic Orthodox apostatized to Islam) to where I know I should be after I realized my error (or, if it’s poorly phrased, where I want to be), Roman (Latin rite, Thomist/Scholastic heritage) Catholicism - Coptic Orthodox, Islam, Eastern Orthodox, Melkite Catholic… the last step remains. And what idiot said the first step was always the hardest?

As I said in another thread, I got the Triads of Palamas and the Philokalia (foundational documents of the Eastern form of spirituality), along with the Canon Law of (now, thanks to this thread) both jurisdictions, and am currently studying them to see if I can convince myself far enough to be able to remain Eastern in clear conscience. That’s probably not too healthy of an attitude to keep, but there seems to be a great amount of institutionalized centrifugal force to keep Orthodox Orthodox and Byzantine Byzantine. I doubt it will, but I attempt to keep an open mind (I’ve never read Palamas himself, just other people with an axe to grind one way or the other digesting him), but I think it would bother me if I didn’t at least try.

I’m figuring it’s the same issue here (along with a generally disorganized parish, which complicates matters), and as soon as I manage to get the transfer to become canonically Latin (or even to get the ball rolling, as the priest has stopped returning my messages now), it should all be “smooth sailing”, so to speak. (Except for discernment, sin, prayer, charity, fortitude - you know, all the small stuff.)

I just noticed - between Constantine and I, we’re essentially swapping places.

 

[Vico]

I’m very interested in Canonistics, or whatever the field be named. I didn’t know the was an actual book of Code of Canon Law for Eastern Catholicism. I have the Western versions (the New Commentary, the Code Annotated, the Big Red Book), but have looked for the Code of the Eastern Churches to no avail.

Could you please tell me where I can obtain a copy of the Eastern Code of Canon Law? I would much like it since I am canonically Eastern.

This has actually become a major issue and stumbling-block for me, as I do so seek.

This is the one I use, with index.

Eastern CCEO: intratext.com/X/ENG1199.HTM

Changes since CCEO 1990: vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/motu_proprio/documents/hf_jp-ii_motu-proprio_30061998_ad-tuendam-fidem_en.html

Some interesting notes on CCEO: canonlaw.wikispot.org/CCEO

Latin CIC: intratext.com/x/eng0017.htm

Changes since CIC:
gcatholic.com/documents/tag/canon.htm

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/apost_letters/documents/hf_ben-xvi_apl_20091026_codex-iuris-canonici_sp.html

Books:

clsa.site-ym.com/store/view_product.asp?id=315681
clsa.site-ym.com/store/view_product.asp?id=315555
clsa.site-ym.com/store/view_product.asp?id=311334

 

[Khalid]

Thank you all and God bless for the links to the online and print Eastern Codes. I never knew the Eastern Church had a “codified code”, beyond the comparisons printed in the appendix to the Big Red Book of Latin Canon Law. I searched the internet and Amazon to no avail, until now, just accumulating more Latin resources (now I have the Latin code, and three commentaries with English translation: the Big Red Book (1985), the Little Red Book (Navarre), and the Green New Commentary). Several people told me to stay away from “Letter and Spirit”.

I’m especially interested in the Inter-Ecclesiastical Relations book, and will save money to get it. The Code of Canons for the Eastern Churches is what I was asking about initially - I find it odd that it’s a Latin-English edition, I would have thought it to be Greek-English or Arabic-English, etc.

I’m surprised I never found the CLSA site, as the Big Red Book and the Big Green Book are the “old CLSA” and the “new CLSA” respectively. D’oh!