How does Catholic meditation work, (not prayers.)

[Kevin_Walker]

Jenlyn:

Kevin,
It seems that contemplation and meditation is being used interchangable. Are you interested in contemplation? Are you interested in having a close relationship with God like St. Teresa of Avila?

This is a great site that talks about contemplation. Contemplation is only given by God. We are passive in this type of prayer. God does all the work. We can do nothing to make it last longer.

newadvent.org/cathen/04324b.htm

There is a book “Come to the Quiet” by John Michael Talbot. He focuses on Christian meditation. He has three parts to his book: The Christian West, The Christain East and The Far East. He tries to combine them. You take a look at it and see if it’s something you are looking for. It wasn’t for me.

Peace,
Jen

Hi Jen,

Thank you for the recommendation. But I distinguish the difference between prayer, meditation, contemplation, and concentrating.

My interest in is in learning ‘how’ Catholics meditate. I have been a (Roman) Catholic all my life, and I have never, ever, been taught ‘how’ to meditate in the Catholic faith. This is the problem I am now addressing.

 

[Kevin_Walker]

It seems to me that meditation is encouraged by the Church to be used as a tool to advance one’s praying, but it is not an end to itself.

Yes, that I understand fully. But ‘how’ does one accomplish it?

 

[Kevin_Walker]

Augustine:

I guess you meant this post, #10, right?

No, I meant #11.

Keep in mind that the difference is theological. This is of most importance for it defines not only the method as well as the goal. Far-eastern religions are essentially agnostic, so they do not engage in dialog with God, as we do. Thus the different methods: theirs is inwards, ours is outwards. Not good terms, but let’s leave them aside.

No. The difference is not theological. Since atheists and pagans meditate, meditation is a method which is practiced outside of religion. I know how the Buddhists meditate, but my question still remains unanswered: How do Catholics meditate?

As for the goal, as they lack the notion of a personal God, they’re left without a map. The only thing they have is themselves, so they rightfully try to collect their selves from the world, but stop there, not knowing what else to do with it.

HUH? What has this gibberish got to do with how Catholics meditate?

To Catholics, this dialog can be in words, in thoughts or in love, when the creature corresponds to the Creator’s love for him or her. Prayer properly is what the first case is known as, meditation, the second and contemplation, the third. Yet, all are generally known simply as prayer.

It appears you have no clue in the difference between prayer and meditation.

I insist that there’s a semantic problem, for what the Catholic tradition refers to as meditation is quite unlike what far-easterners do. Therefore, leaving the words aside, there is no parallel between Catholic meditation and far-eastern meditation: one engages the mental faculty in a dialog with God, the other often shuts all faculties off.

Remember, you are writing to a person who knows the difference between prayer and meditation, but doesn’t know* HOW *Catholics meditate.

Externally, someone in contemplative prayer might look like a guru in meditation, but internally there’s an abyss between both. That’s why a far-eastern meditation technique cannot be applied to any form of Catholic prayer, for the goals belong to different worlds: the former, to this passing world, the latter, to the eternal world. As a matter of fact, the goal of far-eastern meditation is itself, whereas that of nay form of prayer is getting closer to the Beloved, the Trinity.

Please read post #31.

The most important distinction is that all forms of prayer, Catholic meditation inclusive, are gifts of God or grace. It’s only natural that it’s so, for God responds if He wishes to, not because we bribed or trapped Him in doing so, which is absurd. That is the single most important reason why you will not find any technique on Catholic meditation.

Another vague and nebulous generalization which answers nothing.

You will find though ways to ask for and to seek God, particularly those given to us by the Doctors of the Church, such as St. Teresa’s and St. Ignatius’. But they all hold that it’s through God’s grace that you’ll engage in a dialog with Him.

Learned that in my 1964 catechism class.

Sorry if I still don’t make sense to your questions.

Apology accepted. Sorry if I haven’t discovered how Catholics meditate. Prayer=/=meditation.

 

[Elizabeth_B]

SeattlePapist:

I recently found an excellent book on Christian meditation at Boarders Books by a man who studied under Thomas Merton: “Christian Meditation Experiencing the Presence of God.” by James Finley. Fr. Anthony De Mello S.J. “Sadhana A Way to God, Christian Excercises in Eastern Form” is also excellent. Both are packed with practical advice and creative ideas yet well grounded in worship of our dear Lord.

These men showed me how to approach meditation in ways that are rooted in Christian tradition so I can have confidence that my efforts are drawing me nearer to Jesus and not to the enemy.

I caution you regarding the works of Fr. Anthony de Mello. In 1998, the Vatican issued a notification that many of his teachings are incompatible with the Catholic faith.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19980624_demello_en.html

 

[Kevin_Walker]

Elizabeth B.:

I caution you regarding the works of Fr. Anthony de Mello. In 1998, the Vatican issued a notification that many of his teachings are incompatible with the Catholic faith.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19980624_demello_en.html

I also get the distinct impression from ‘Catholic’ writers on prayer and meditation that they are skirting the Catholic faith.

That is why I am so adamant about learning an original method of how Catholics meditate in conformance with the tenets of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

 

[SeattlePapist]

Elizabeth B.:

I caution you regarding the works of Fr. Anthony de Mello. In 1998, the Vatican issued a notification that many of his teachings are incompatible with the Catholic faith.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19980624_demello_en.html

Thanks for the reference Elizabeth B. I found a lot of valueable thinking in Mello’s Christian Exercises. In his last work “A Way to Love.” he does seem to take some radically Eastern turns. All part of being a fallen critter like the rest of us I guess.

I still feel sorry for those who think they need to throw the babby out with the bath water on Eastern thought. It is a kind of poverty to have more fear of Satan than confidence in Christ.

 

[Jenlyn]

Since you want to know HOW to meditate then check out buzzcut’s site on lectio divina. Meditation is not hard. We pray for the Holy Spirit to guide us and then we read a passage out loud. Then we read again to see what pops out at us. We think about that part and how pertains to our lives. We can also place ourselves in the reading, as another poster said, for a different perspective. Praying the rosary is the same thing. The saints meditated on the bible readings. They stressed the importance of it.

I caution those that use the word contemplation in this thread. Contemplation is when God grants us a union with him. It is not meditation. Contemplation can happen while we are meditating if God chooses. WE can contemplate ideas but contemplation is something we cannot do.

 

[Kevin_Walker]

Jenlyn:

Since you want to know HOW to meditate then check out buzzcut’s site on lectio divina. Meditation is not hard. We pray for the Holy Spirit to guide us and then we read a passage out loud. Then we read again to see what pops out at us. We think about that part and how pertains to our lives. We can also place ourselves in the reading, as another poster said, for a different perspective. Praying the rosary is the same thing. The saints meditated on the bible readings. They stressed the importance of it.

I caution those that use the word contemplation in this thread. Contemplation is when God grants us a union with him. It is not meditation. Contemplation can happen while we are meditating if God chooses. WE can contemplate ideas but contemplation is something we cannot do.

Yes, it is a fact that I do know how to meditate. I just don’t know the Catholic method of meditation. Please be aware that the Catechism of the Catholic Church distinguished the difference between prayer and meditation, they are two separate and distinct concepts.

You’ve made the mistake of using the word Prayer in your description of Catholic Meditation thus making the error of replacing one for the other.

I will review buzzcut’s site on *lectio divina, *thank you for the suggestion. I might suggest that you re-read my post #31.
Thank you!

 

[Augustine]

Kevin Walker:

Sorry if I haven’t discovered how Catholics meditate.

In your terms, we don’t.

 

[Kevin_Walker]

Augustine:

In your terms, we don’t.

I think that is a great truth, Catholics don’t know how to meditate, but they are experts at praying. I feel a group of Catholics should get together and hammer out a methodology on the Catholic method of meditation.

Based on all the fantastic information provided on this thread, an ecumenical council should be formed to provide a methodology for Catholic meditation. Not to describe what meditation is, but how it is done in accordance with the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and the prior wisdom of the Doctors of the Church.

Remember, according to the CCC, mediation and prayer have two distinct definitions and purposes.

Prayer as an act of faith.
Meditation as a quest.

 

[springbreeze]

Dear friend

In Catholicism meditation is Christ centered. It does not begin with the self, but the self seeking our Truine God and to seek our Truine God we must seek this through God the Father’s Son Christ Jesus.

Meditation is prayer, meditation cannot be seperated from prayer, it is the raising of the heart, mind and soul to God in order to meditate upon God and be taught by God by such means. Meditation is the very soul of prayer.

It is to reflect upon Christ’s life, focused and thoughtfully praying upon His life.

The Rosary is a perfect means to meditate. The Rosary is Christ centered and Scripturally based. What a sublime gift from our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary, a gift of meditation on Our Sweet Lord.

A person may like to read a small part of Sacred Scripture slowly and prayerfully.

Mediation is not to be empty of thought. In meditation the mind seeks to understand and to appreciate Jesus and His teaching. It seeks to know His will. This is the object of meditation and provides inspiration for the will to make acts of adoration, thanksgiving, sorrow for sins and petition.

In meditation we also see ourselves as we are and by meditation we are transformed.

Meditation helps deepen our faith, prompts the conversion of heart and strengthens the will to follow Christ Jesus.

As well as Sacred Scripture we can meditate on an image, statue or writings of the Saints. We can meditate, always Christ centered, on a flower and consider its impact or application to onself spiritually .eg the beauty of God reflected in His creation. meditate on a tree and the wood that our Lord hung upon, the wood that formed the Cross. Meditate on the diversity of life, all life. Meditate on a sunset, a snow storm, the soft rain always looking to our Truine God as Creator of all these things and what it reveals about Him. Look to the agonies of life and meditate on these and comparison with Christ’s sufferings.

To meditate is not to contemplate. Contemplation is an intuition of the truth, which can be obtained either by the acquired or from God. Contemplation is a gaze of faith that is fixed on Jesus, it is a passive prayer and we do not actively act as in meditation, but it is God acting within us in the very deepest core of the soul.

I hope this helps.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
TOC (Third Order Carmelite, O’Carm)

 

[springbreeze]

Kevin Walker:

I think that is a great truth, Catholics don’t know how to meditate, but they are experts at praying. I feel a group of Catholics should get together and hammer out a methodology on the Catholic method of meditation.

QUOTE]

Dear friend

Study the Carmelite teachings on prayer/meditation and also St Francis of Assisi, everything you need is there. St Teresa of Avila , St John of the Cross and Brother Lawrence.

God bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
TOC (Third Order Carmelite, O’Carm)

 

[magdaline]

• meditation begins with silence and simplicity and requires much discipline
• it is becoming child like
• our Father already knows our innermost thoughts

as Mother Teresa says:
“God is the friend of silence. See how nature, the trees, the flowers, the grass grow in deep silence.
see how the stars, the moon and the sun move in silence. Silence gives us a new way of looking at everything. we need this silence in order to touch souls.”

Luke 2:19 “His mother stored up all these things in her heart”

 

[SeattlePapist]

Annunciata:

Father Groeschel was talking about the prayer form of St. Ignatius of Loyola on his Sunday Night Live on EWTN last night…He had a Latin name for it… can’t remember…here is a link explaining it: Ignatius Prayer …A Method of Contemplation.

Thanks for the Ignatius Prayer link. I am excited to use this in my own prayer/contemplation/meditation efforts.

 

[SeattlePapist]

springbreeze:

Contemplation is a gaze of faith that is fixed on Jesus, it is a passive prayer and we do not actively act as in meditation, but it is God acting within us in the very deepest core of the soul.

Well said. I have found that my quiet time with our Lord at times so transends words that it seems pointless to try to come up with one word that can fully express what is happening. Words like meditation, contemplation and prayer help. However, they are still just words. I find that the more narrowly we try to define terms like “Catholic Meditation,” the more useless these terms become in discribing something that is at tunes so beyond words.

Thank you for sharing your perspective Teresa.

 

[Jenlyn]

springbreeze:

Dear friend

In Catholicism meditation is Christ centered. It does not begin with the self, but the self seeking our Truine God and to seek our Truine God we must seek this through God the Father’s Son Christ Jesus.

Meditation is prayer, meditation cannot be seperated from prayer, it is the raising of the heart, mind and soul to God in order to meditate upon God and be taught by God by such means. Meditation is the very soul of prayer.

It is to reflect upon Christ’s life, focused and thoughtfully praying upon His life.

The Rosary is a perfect means to meditate. The Rosary is Christ centered and Scripturally based. What a sublime gift from our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary, a gift of meditation on Our Sweet Lord.

A person may like to read a small part of Sacred Scripture slowly and prayerfully.

Mediation is not to be empty of thought. In meditation the mind seeks to understand and to appreciate Jesus and His teaching. It seeks to know His will. This is the object of meditation and provides inspiration for the will to make acts of adoration, thanksgiving, sorrow for sins and petition.

In meditation we also see ourselves as we are and by meditation we are transformed.

Meditation helps deepen our faith, prompts the conversion of heart and strengthens the will to follow Christ Jesus.

As well as Sacred Scripture we can meditate on an image, statue or writings of the Saints. We can meditate, always Christ centered, on a flower and consider its impact or application to onself spiritually .eg the beauty of God reflected in His creation. meditate on a tree and the wood that our Lord hung upon, the wood that formed the Cross. Meditate on the diversity of life, all life. Meditate on a sunset, a snow storm, the soft rain always looking to our Truine God as Creator of all these things and what it reveals about Him. Look to the agonies of life and meditate on these and comparison with Christ’s sufferings.

To meditate is not to contemplate. Contemplation is an intuition of the truth, which can be obtained either by the acquired or from God. Contemplation is a gaze of faith that is fixed on Jesus, it is a passive prayer and we do not actively act as in meditation, but it is God acting within us in the very deepest core of the soul.

I hope this helps.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
TOC (Third Order Carmelite, O’Carm)

Teresa,
:clapping: You put it much better than I!

Kevin,
We do meditate and this is how we do it. Take your lessons from the Saints that Teresa mentions in her second post.

 

[Jenlyn]

Kevin Walker:

According to the CCC 2705-2706

Catholic "Meditation is above all a quest. The mind seeks to understand the why and how of the Christian life, in order to adhere and respond to what the Lord is asking … To the extent that we are humble and faithful. We discover in meditation the movements that stir the heart and we are able to discern them. It is a question of acting truthfully in order to come into the light: "Lord what do you want me to do?"

It’s a bit vague:

I don’t think it’s vague at all. It is exactly the way I described how to meditate: “We pray for the Holy Spirit to guide us and then we read a passage out loud. Then we read again to see what pops out at us. We think about that part and how pertains to our lives. We can also place ourselves in the reading, as another poster said, for a different perspective. Praying the rosary is the same thing. The saints meditated on the bible readings. They stressed the importance of it.”

That’s the method. There is nothing more. I don’t think we need a council to tell us this. Any priest should be able to explain it to you.

 

[Jenlyn]

Kevin Walker:

According to the CCC 2705-2706

Catholic "Meditation is above all a quest. The mind seeks to understand the why and how of the Christian life, in order to adhere and respond to what the Lord is asking … To the extent that we are humble and faithful. We discover in meditation the movements that stir the heart and we are able to discern them. It is a question of acting truthfully in order to come into the light: "Lord what do you want me to do?"

It’s a bit vague:

I don’t think it’s vague at all. It is exactly the way I described how to meditate: “We pray for the Holy Spirit to guide us and then we read a passage out loud. Then we read again to see what pops out at us. We think about that part and how pertains to our lives. We can also place ourselves in the reading, as another poster said, for a different perspective. Praying the rosary is the same thing. The saints meditated on the bible readings. They stressed the importance of it.” Teresa said it even better.

That’s the “method”. There is nothing more. I don’t think we need a council to tell us this. I would hope that any priest could explain it to you.

 

[Kevin_Walker]

buzzcut:

These are some good, short introductions to lectio divina:

ACCEPTING THE EMBRACE OF GOD: THE ANCIENT ART of LECTIO DIVINA by Fr. Luke Dysinger, O.S.B.

Lectio Divina and the Practice of Teresian Prayer by Sam Anthony Morello, OCD

Hello buzzcut,

Thank you very much for providing these two web sources on the *lectio divina, *it was impressive to say the least.

First, in my quest for developing a Catholic system of meditation, I was almost disappointed to have spent a lot of time concentrating and jotting down my ideas on paper in the middle of the night only to discover that I had re-invented some of the methodology found in the ancient art of *lectio divina, *but it just means that I am on the right track. Not to congratulate myself, but I am doing something correct when a lot of my recent ideas on meditation methods had already been developed in the lectio divina.

It seems the *lectio divina *seperates listening- from meditation- from prayer -from contemplation. So this just confirmed my observation that meditation is different from prayer. But I see enough differences in the lectio divina method of meditation from my own idea to form an original version of a clear and rigorous routine of Catholic meditation; a method independent of the *lectio divina *version of meditation and prayer.

Please read this Apostolic Letter Rosarium Virginis Mariae of the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II to the Bishops, Clergy, and Faithful on the Most Holy Rosary 16 October 2002 found in the New Advent, the Catholic Encyclopedia

newadvent.org/library/docs_jp02rd.htm

and compare Pope John Paul II’s intelligent opinion of prayer and meditation to that found in the website on the *lectio divina *by the insightful Fr. Luke Dysinger, O.S.B.

I have this gut feeling that I am onto something with my idea of an original Catholic way of meditation, and your generous research with this post has helped me tighten my investigation and analysis. Again, thank you very much.

Happy Saint Patrick’s Day!

 

[springbreeze]

Kevin Walker:

Hello buzzcut,

Thank you very much for providing these two web sources on the *lectio divina, *it was impressive to say the least.

First, in my quest for developing a Catholic system of meditation, I was almost disappointed to have spent a lot of time concentrating and jotting down my ideas on paper in the middle of the night only to discover that I had re-invented some of the methodology found in the ancient art of *lectio divina, *but it just means that I am on the right track. Not to congratulate myself, but I am doing something correct when a lot of my recent ideas on meditation methods had already been developed in the lectio divina.

It seems the *lectio divina *seperates listening- from meditation- from prayer -from contemplation. also pray before the Blessed SacramentSo this just confirmed my observation that meditation is different from prayer. But I see enough differences in the lectio divina method of meditation from my own idea to form an original version of a clear and rigorous routine of Catholic meditation; a method independent of the *lectio divina *version of meditation and prayer.

Please read this Apostolic Letter Rosarium Virginis Mariae of the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II to the Bishops, Clergy, and Faithful on the Most Holy Rosary 16 October 2002 found in the New Advent, the Catholic Encyclopedia

newadvent.org/library/docs_jp02rd.htm

and compare Pope John Paul II’s intelligent opinion of prayer and meditation to that found in the website on the *lectio divina *by the insightful Fr. Luke Dysinger, O.S.B.

I have this gut feeling that I am onto something with my idea of an original Catholic way of meditation, and your generous research with this post has helped me tighten my investigation and analysis. Again, thank you very much.

Happy Saint Patrick’s Day!

Dear friend

If you are looking for Catholicity then you will know that mediation is prayer and is the soul of prayer… You worry me with your statement that So this just confirmed my observation that meditation is different from prayer.
**
All raising of the mind, heart and spirit to God by either verbal, mental or by the contemplative is prayer and there is no other way to communicate with God and listen to God and to come to know Him, thus to know ourselves as we really are is but by prayer.

I urge you to rethink your statements. Prayer is the channel gifted to us by God so that we may converse with Him.

What is it that you seek?

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa