How does Contemplation fit into the Consecration to Jesus through Mary?

[DBT]

I’m not sure what you mean here, but, contemplation never ends. Contemplation is in every aspect of life for a contemplative.Jim

Since this all flowed from a comment I made, I thought I’d chime in . . .

Perhaps this is a terminology thing again? I’m pretty sure Glen was meaning infused contemplation . . . perhaps you’re thinking acquired contemplation?

For those not familiar with the distinction, infused contemplation refers to the partial or full suspension of the faculties (intellect, will and memory) during prayer that can only be given by God. It is a fleeting, sporadic and short-lived event. When the saints speak of contemplation, this is typically the type they mean.

Acquired contemplation, on the other hand, is something we can practice through our own effort. Think of it as praying without ceasing . . . a conversation with God in the manner of a Brother Lawrence that can become habitual and continual in this lifetime.

Hopefully we can see that infused and acquired contemplation are two very different things.

Going back to the original example that started this . . .

Let’s say one is in the midst of praying a private devotion, the rosary perhaps. If, in the midst of this prayer, the soul senses the onset of infused contemplation it is best to “give up” the lesser for the greater. Please don’t misunderstand me when I say that, but in this context the rosary serves as the “means” while infused contemplation is the “end” that we seek . . . union with God.

And I think the point Glen added to this is that once the infused contemplation ends, maybe it would be a good thing to continue where we left off on the rosary.

Not trying to put words in his mouth, but that’s my take.

Dave.

 

[InLight247]

Originally Posted by **glenaitken **
I think too that once the contemplation is over that you should go back to what you were doing.

Originally Posted by **JimR-OCDS **
I’m not sure what you mean here, but, contemplation never ends. Contemplation is in every aspect of life for a contemplative.

Jim

Originally Posted by beckycmarie
I thought infused contemplation only lasted 15-30 minutes. Perhaps you’re referring to recollection when you say “contemplation never ends?”

I think Glenaitken is talking about when one loses himself in the Lord while saying the rosary, he ought to re-pick up the rosary and finish it after he comes back from the contemplation.

Whereas Jim was talking about is the status of contemplative living where one’s being is constantly in the presence of the Lord, the continual “being with”.

And the infused contemplation could be any length, maybe just a few minutes, it does not have to be 15 to 30.

I hope I am not too far off.

 

[DBT]

Thank you, Inlight, you cut right to the heart of the matter

Dave

 

[glenaitken]

Since this all flowed from a comment I made, I thought I’d chime in . . .

Perhaps this is a terminology thing again? I’m pretty sure Glen was meaning infused contemplation . . . perhaps you’re thinking acquired contemplation?

For those not familiar with the distinction, infused contemplation refers to the partial or full suspension of the faculties (intellect, will and memory) during prayer that can only be given by God. It is a fleeting, sporadic and short-lived event. When the saints speak of contemplation, this is typically the type they mean.

Acquired contemplation, on the other hand, is something we can practice through our own effort. Think of it as praying without ceasing . . . a conversation with God in the manner of a Brother Lawrence that can become habitual and continual in this lifetime.

Hopefully we can see that infused and acquired contemplation are two very different things.

Going back to the original example that started this . . .

Let’s say one is in the midst of praying a private devotion, the rosary perhaps. If, in the midst of this prayer, the soul senses the onset of infused contemplation it is best to “give up” the lesser for the greater. Please don’t misunderstand me when I say that, but in this context the rosary serves as the “means” while infused contemplation is the “end” that we seek . . . union with God.

And I think the point Glen added to this is that once the infused contemplation ends, maybe it would be a good thing to continue where we left off on the rosary.

Not trying to put words in his mouth, but that’s my take.

Dave.

Dave, thank you for explaining it. sorry to all for not specifying. i was refering to the infused contemplation because i thought that was where the thread was going. the aquired contemplation and the sitting and waiting and being aware of God is more of contemplative prayer virtue than true contemplation. we can not reach up to God in contemplation- He must come to us. aquired contemplation, i think, simply means being open to God and being aware of both the transcendance and immenance of God at all times. the infused contemplation is those moments of union (not communication) that God grants us sometimes. my point was that if He does grant you a moment of true, pure comtemplation, thank HIm for it and then go back to your devotion. your devotion is not meant to be a means to mystical union, but rather a means of fostering love, knowledge and openess to God for when He decides to give you these moments. if you discontinue devotion after infused contemplation it seems to me to be more transaction (this thing A for X price) than transformation. sorry again for the confusion.
also, i hope mang dog wasn’t offended- i was in a bit of a rush in my response and so i am sorry for the quickness of the tone. those things that he was talking about are very important for the spiritual life, but they are more appropirately under meditation than contemplation. these are two very different things

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I’ll use Fr Keatings words to describe what I mean by contemplation. Bold is my emphasis.

Contemplation is basically the predominance of the Gifts of the Spirit over our own activity during the time of prayer. At the same time, it gradually works itself into daily life through the active gifts of the Spirit: counsel, prudence, fortitude and knowledge.

In other words, a person who is brought into contemplation by grace, lives the contemplative life.

So, contemplation, never ends.

St. Francis of Assisi’s is an example, of living a contemplative life.

Once St Francis picked up a handful of dirt and stated, " I can feel the pulse of God, within this handful of dirt."

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The other distinction that should be made is that contemplative prayer is different from contemplation.

Again, quoting Fr Keating;

We should distinguish contemplative prayer from contemplative life. The former is an experience or series of experiences leading to the abiding state of union with God. The term contemplative life should be reserved for the abiding state of divine union itself, in which one is moved both in prayer and in action by the Spirit.

From “Open Mind Open Heart.”

Jim

 

[DBT]

your devotion is not meant to be a means to mystical union, but rather a means of fostering love, knowledge and openess to God . . . it seems to me to be more transaction (this thing A for X price) than transformation

Very good point Purity of heart and intention would seem to be key.

Dave

PS - MangyDog, I too hope you weren’t offended by my comments and I look forward to any contributions you might like to make.

Along those lines, maybe it’s time for me to be quiet now and let others speak

 

[beckycmarie]

I’ll use Fr Keatings words to describe what I mean by contemplation. Bold is my emphasis.

In other words, a person who is brought into contemplation by grace, lives the contemplative life.

So, contemplation, never ends.

St. Francis of Assisi’s is an example, of living a contemplative life.

Once St Francis picked up a handful of dirt and stated, " I can feel the pulse of God, within this handful of dirt."

Jim

Thanks for explaining, Jim. I think sometimes the terminology complicates things. If I’m understanding you correctly, someone experiencing true infused contemplation will have the the fruits of the Holy Spirit become evident in their life. This goes back to what Fr. Dubay says, “Always it [contemplation] is tranformative of the person.”

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Thanks for explaining, Jim. I think sometimes the terminology complicates things. If I’m understanding you correctly, someone experiencing true infused contemplation will have the the fruits of the Holy Spirit become evident in their life. This goes back to what Fr. Dubay says, “Always it [contemplation] is tranformative of the person.”

Exactly!

As St. John of the Cross says, as the soul is transformed and like a lover, takes on the characteristics of the beloved, i.e. we become Christ-like, in our capacity to love as He loves.

Jim

 

[glenaitken]

Along those lines, maybe it’s time for me to be quiet now and let others speak

well noted dave, thanks for the reminder:blush:

 

[BarbaraTherese]

I’m not sure what you mean here, but, contemplation never ends. Contemplation is in every aspect of life for a contemplative.

Jim

…this is why this caused me to frown…

Glenaitken:

Quoting mangy dog,
these are not the same thing. you are describing awe and wonder- respect for the beauty of God and His creation. this is great, but it is not contemplation

Some interesting posts in this thread…Barb