how does gay marriage harm society?

[karow]

Promiscuity is rampant in the homosexual community, many of them with literally hundreds of sexual partners.

Show some unbiased numbers to back up this claim. Cross sections, not one or two individual cases (because we could point to individual heterosexuals who’ve had hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of sexual partners, which - while unfortunate - is meaningless for extrapolation purposes).

Preferably, please provide numbers based on public health informatics.

Otherwise, please don’t use this forum to perpetuate stereotypes. Charity is paramount here. Thanks for your understanding.

 

[InSearchofGrace]

Gay marriage does no harm to society…but does offer stablility to men and women who form families of their own.

When one considers that gay people comprise 5-15% of the population AND of that 5-15% only 10-15% of the subculture WANTS to get married…the numbers are quite small…hardly the demise of the species due to “non-reproductive” coupling.

Those men and women with whom I am acquainted that are in same sex marriages, have children…own homes…pay taxes…eat out on Friday evenings or payday and wish to live their lives quietly without harrasment or prejudice.

This is like saying circulating counterfeit bills in the money supply is good for the economy. The effect of gay ‘marriage’ is insidious. It destroys friendship and social life and weakens all of society. Just because a group of people also pay taxes (a common inappropriate justification) does not entitle them to change society this way.

Homosexual ‘love’ as basis for ‘marriage’ is neither conjugal love nor can it stay on the level of love of friendship without erotic connotations. Hence, homosexuality undermines the family and social life. The family is the foundation of society, and marriage is the condition that gives rise to the family. Homosexuality undermines marriage by seeking to usurp its rights: Conjugal relationships are only possible between a man and a woman. Gay ‘marriage’ which is inauthentic gives way to the next demand, gay ‘parenting,’ another inauthentic construct.

Likewise, friendship is the mortar of social life and the foundation of social concord. Without friendship, it is impossible to avoid social discord, which opens the gates to chaos and anarchy. Since homosexuality is focused on sexual intercourse, it thereby destroys the possibility of true friendship between people of the same sex, turning friends into objects of desire or competitors in the market of passions.

By weakening the family and friendship in society, the homosexual offensive destroys the foundations of society and leads it towards disintegration and anarchy. This reality is obfuscated by the homosexual movement’s use of words like ‘love’ and ‘tolerance.’
,

 

[rockerchar]

This is just one example of how it harms society.

If a boy is raised by two married lesbians he is being taught that he is not necessary in a family. He will be taught that (as a matter of fact) men are optional.

Additionally, if same-sex marriage is legalized, this philosophy of men not being necessary to the family will be taught to children of heterosexual marriages in the public schools.

It is fascinating that the left is always concerned about the plight of the single parent as well as the psychological impact on the children being raised without their father yet they are willing to support same-sex marriage which will cause this to happen even more.

Regardless of religion, it is simply not a good idea to have men being raised with this attitude. Men should be raised with a sense social and financial responsibility to their children and the mother of their children. Failure to raise men in this manner will have a devastating effect on our country and the world both economically and socially.

Okay. But girls are of no importance to this argument? A girl raised by a gay male couple, is she taught that women are unnecessary in a family? Gender stereotypes are reinforced strongly enough in other ways. There is no evidence that shows that children of gay and lesbian couples are gender confused. This sounds like a chauvinist argument to me, unless you’d be kind enough to clarify.

Psychological studies show that children raised by single parents and children raised by gay couples are different. Children raised by gay couples are more like children raised by straight couples. References on request. One must be cautious in making generalizations based on feelings or psuedo-philosophy. Let’s stick to what’s sound!

In Christi Amor.

 

[SteveVH]

Show some unbiased numbers to back up this claim. Cross sections, not one or two individual cases (because we could point to individual heterosexuals who’ve had hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of sexual partners, which - while unfortunate - is meaningless for extrapolation purposes).

Preferably, please provide numbers based on public health informatics.

Otherwise, please don’t use this forum to perpetuate stereotypes. Charity is paramount here. Thanks for your understanding.

Will this do?

**"Studies implying gay monogamy is statistically rare

1. Consider the research of McWhirter and Mattison. These men interviewed 156 male couples and concluded that in these relationships “fidelity is not defined in terms of sexual behavior, but rather by their emotional commitment to one another” (The Male Couple; David P. McWhirter, M.D., and Andrew M. Mattison, M.S.W., Ph.D.; Prentice-Hall, 1984; p 252). The researchers – a gay couple themselves – reported that two-thirds of the couples began their relationship with the expectation of sexual exclusivity, but that the partners became more permissive with time. They found that all the couples who had been together at least 5 years had incorporated some provision for outside sexual activity in their relationships. In fact, the authors concluded that “the single most important factor that keeps couples together past the ten-year mark is the lack of possessiveness they feel. Many couples learn very early in their relationship that ownership of each other sexually can become the greatest internal threat to their staying together.” (McWhirter and Mattison’s work is summarized in the professional volume, Textbook of Homosexuality and Mental Health, ed. Robert P. Cabaj and Terry S. Stein; American Psychiatric Press, 1996.)
2. Two Harvard-trained gay men wrote a book giving a blueprint for using the mass media to normalize homosexual lifestyle (After the Ball; Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen; Doubleday, 1989). The book also acknowledges that “the cheating ratio of ‘married’ gay males, given enough time, approaches 100%…Many gay lovers, bowing to the inevitable, agree to an ‘open relationship,’ for which there are as many sets of ground rules as there are couples” (p330).
3. In his book, Virtually Normal (New York: Vintage Books, 1996), conservative gay writer Andrew Sullivan contrasts male-female marriages with same sex relationships and explains, “there is more likely to be a greater understanding of the need for extramarital outlets between two men than between a man and a woman” (p202).
4. According to a 1991 study of 900 homosexuals by Dr. Martin Dannecker, German “sexologist” who is a homosexual himself, 83% of the males living in “steady relationships” had numerous sexual encounters outside the partnership over a one-year period. (This study was seen at forever.freeshell.org/gayprom.htm and other web sites.)
5. A study of young Dutch homosexual men, published in the journal AIDS (May 2, 2003 p1029-1038) by Dr. Maria Xiridou, gives yet another indication that homosexual men tend to not be monogamous, even when they are involved in long-term relationships. The Dutch study – which focused on transmission of HIV – found that men in homosexual relationships on average have eight partners a year outside those relationships (cited in a July 11, 2003 The Washington Times article; at washtimes.com/national/20030711-121254-3711r.htm).**

 

[rockerchar]

I think you need to have a long talk with your priest.

My priest is gay. <3

 

[SteveVH]

My priest is gay. <3

And…

 

[SteveVH]

Show some unbiased numbers to back up this claim. Cross sections, not one or two individual cases (because we could point to individual heterosexuals who’ve had hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of sexual partners, which - while unfortunate - is meaningless for extrapolation purposes).

Preferably, please provide numbers based on public health informatics.

Otherwise, please don’t use this forum to perpetuate stereotypes. Charity is paramount here. Thanks for your understanding.

I would also like to add that speaking the truth does not equate to being uncharitable. Perpetuating falsehood under the guise of charity is simply dishonest.

 

[rockerchar]

Will this do?

**"Studies implying gay monogamy is statistically rare

1. Consider the research of McWhirter and Mattison. These men interviewed 156 male couples and concluded that in these relationships “fidelity is not defined in terms of sexual behavior, but rather by their emotional commitment to one another” (The Male Couple; David P. McWhirter, M.D., and Andrew M. Mattison, M.S.W., Ph.D.; Prentice-Hall, 1984; p 252). The researchers – a gay couple themselves – reported that two-thirds of the couples began their relationship with the expectation of sexual exclusivity, but that the partners became more permissive with time. They found that all the couples who had been together at least 5 years had incorporated some provision for outside sexual activity in their relationships. In fact, the authors concluded that “the single most important factor that keeps couples together past the ten-year mark is the lack of possessiveness they feel. Many couples learn very early in their relationship that ownership of each other sexually can become the greatest internal threat to their staying together.” (McWhirter and Mattison’s work is summarized in the professional volume, Textbook of Homosexuality and Mental Health, ed. Robert P. Cabaj and Terry S. Stein; American Psychiatric Press, 1996.)
2. Two Harvard-trained gay men wrote a book giving a blueprint for using the mass media to normalize homosexual lifestyle (After the Ball; Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen; Doubleday, 1989). The book also acknowledges that “the cheating ratio of ‘married’ gay males, given enough time, approaches 100%…Many gay lovers, bowing to the inevitable, agree to an ‘open relationship,’ for which there are as many sets of ground rules as there are couples” (p330).
3. In his book, Virtually Normal (New York: Vintage Books, 1996), conservative gay writer Andrew Sullivan contrasts male-female marriages with same sex relationships and explains, “there is more likely to be a greater understanding of the need for extramarital outlets between two men than between a man and a woman” (p202).
4. According to a 1991 study of 900 homosexuals by Dr. Martin Dannecker, German “sexologist” who is a homosexual himself, 83% of the males living in “steady relationships” had numerous sexual encounters outside the partnership over a one-year period. (This study was seen at forever.freeshell.org/gayprom.htm** and other web sites.)
5. A study of young Dutch homosexual men, published in the journal AIDS (May 2, 2003 p1029-1038) by Dr. Maria Xiridou, gives yet another indication that homosexual men tend to not be monogamous, even when they are involved in long-term relationships. The Dutch study – which focused on transmission of HIV – found that men in homosexual relationships on average have eight partners a year outside those relationships (cited in a July 11, 2003 The Washington Times article; at washtimes.com/national/20030711-121254-3711r.htm).

I’m afraid that I’m confused. What is the conclusion that you’ve reached because of this research? Are gay couples are more susceptible to affairs? If you can, please continue and make your own argument using these sources that you’ve copy/pasted into the discussion.

Also, what are the rates of extramarital sex in straight couples?

 

[rockerchar]

I would also like to add that speaking the truth does not equate to being uncharitable. Perpetuating falsehood under the guise of charity is simply dishonest.

Using slurs, stereotypes, bad research, et al. These things are both dishonest and uncharitable.
For example:

TRUTH- Some priests are child molesters.

Did you know priests are child molesters? You better stay away from Father X. He’s probably a child molester too.

 

[rockerchar]

And…

And my spiritual director, along with myself and most reputable biblical scholars, don’t find a single word in the Holy Bible that condemns homosexuality as unethical.

Yes, homosexual activity was socially unacceptable. So were women’s rights.

 

[Madaglan]

The story of Sodom in Genesis 19 is about offense against the sacred duty of hospitality. That is how Ezekiel 16:48-49, Wisdom 9:13-14, and Ecclesiasticus 16:8 unequivocally interpret this text. The attempted male rape only heightens the atrocity of this offense against charity, the paradigmatic biblical sin.
…
Hope this clears up the Scripture question for you!

Jude 1:7 is revealing, too: “In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.”

As Ezekiel 16, the people of Sodom were gluttons and did not care for the widows and the needy, true, but that’s not the end of their disordered passions.

 

[Madaglan]

And my spiritual director, along with myself and most reputable biblical scholars, don’t find a single word in the Holy Bible that condemns homosexuality as unethical.

Yes, homosexual activity was socially unacceptable. So were women’s rights.

Not one word?

Lev 18:22: “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination”

Many of the “reputable” biblical scholars who do this do not approach the Bible as though it were Holy, the Word of God, but as if it were simply the product of man and his times. It’s no surprise that these scholars likewise interpret these writings according to the societal trends of today. The Bible in their case is not the revealed Word of God, but rather is a tool to support and propagate their brand of humanism.

 

[AlwaysCurious]

And my spiritual director, along with myself and most reputable biblical scholars, don’t find a single word in the Holy Bible that condemns homosexuality as unethical.

Yes, homosexual activity was socially unacceptable. So were women’s rights.

Then it seems you, your spiritual director and your priest are directly at odds with the Catechism, specifically #2357-2359. Thank you for demonstrating the need for an authoritative voice in interpreting Scripture.

 

[InSearchofGrace]

And my spiritual director, along with myself and most reputable biblical scholars, don’t find a single word in the Holy Bible that condemns homosexuality as unethical.

Yes, homosexual activity was socially unacceptable. So were women’s rights.

Your objection to stereotyping is understandable. Not all homosexuals advocate for gay ‘marriage’ or live the lifestyle or have multiple partners. Not all homosexuals are pedophiles. Not all priests are pedophiles, with the recent study on Catholic clergy abuse pointing to homosexual pederasty more than pedophilia.

But your posts are confusing with your self-ID as Catholic. Are you and your spiritual director members of an organization like New Ways or Dignity that claims to be Catholic?
,

 

[cradlecatholic5]

this is one of those threads that will drag on and on … w/ no resolution …

 

[Hail_Linus]

Okay. But girls are of no importance to this argument? A girl raised by a gay male couple, is she taught that women are unnecessary in a family? Gender stereotypes are reinforced strongly enough in other ways. There is no evidence that shows that children of gay and lesbian couples are gender confused. This sounds like a chauvinist argument to me, unless you’d be kind enough to clarify.

Psychological studies show that children raised by single parents and children raised by gay couples are different. Children raised by gay couples are more like children raised by straight couples. References on request. One must be cautious in making generalizations based on feelings or psuedo-philosophy. Let’s stick to what’s sound!

In Christi Amor.

Well I am glad we agree on the one point.

I just wanted to give one example. But yes, the impact on women is also great. Women will also be to believe that they are not necessary and men are not necessary to them.

Also, I am not talking about gender confusion (although that may be a possibility). I am concerned about people being raised without a sense that they are important to the family.

As the family gets weakened more and more then the local gov’t has to take more responsibility and of course they will seek assistance from the state who will in turn seek assistance from the feds who of course will need to increase taxes.

Let’s set aside the issue of children being adopted by gay couples. The issue that concerns me is the new fad of surrogacy for same-sex couples. It does not take any research to figure out that these children will have emotional issues of abandonment that there other biological parent did not think that much of them. Again, as stated above the child will learn that both parents are not necessary.

The state has a legitimate interest in promoting the traditional family. It can certainly tolerate same-sex couples having families. However, the purpose of marriage laws has always been to promote the traditional family and legalizing sames-sex marriage would be counter-productive to this interest. Even the pre-Christian Roman Empire, which tolerated homosexuality, only promoted (and even required) men to marry one woman and have children for the sake of the Empire’s well being.

 

[SteveVH]

I’m afraid that I’m confused. What is the conclusion that you’ve reached because of this research? Are gay couples are more susceptible to affairs? If you can, please continue and make your own argument using these sources that you’ve copy/pasted into the discussion.

Also, what are the rates of extramarital sex in straight couples?

You asked me to back up my claim that gay relationships are fraught with promiscuity. I’ve done that. What is so confusing?

Originally Posted by rockerchair
Show some unbiased numbers to back up this claim. Cross sections, not one or two individual cases (because we could point to individual heterosexuals who’ve had hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of sexual partners, which - while unfortunate - is meaningless for extrapolation purposes).

Preferably, please provide numbers based on public health informatics.

Otherwise, please don’t use this forum to perpetuate stereotypes. Charity is paramount here. Thanks for your understanding.

 

[rockerchar]

Your objection to stereotyping is understandable. Not all homosexuals advocate for gay ‘marriage’ or live the lifestyle or have multiple partners. Not all homosexuals are pedophiles. Not all priests are pedophiles, with the recent study on Catholic clergy abuse pointing to homosexual pederasty more than pedophilia.

But your posts are confusing with your self-ID as Catholic. Are you and your spiritual director members of an organization like New Ways or Dignity that claims to be Catholic?
,

No. As far as I know, neither he nor I are part of any such organization.

I am a practicing Catholic. My private theological opinions are my own concern.

In response to a previous post, I object to CCC 2357 because CCC 2357 does not constitute infallible Church dogma. It cites biblical and CDF documents:

141 Cf. Gen 191-29; Rom 124-27; 1 Cor 6:10; 1 Tim 1:10.
142 CDF, Persona humana 8.

The biblical sources can be readily interpreted in other ways.
The CDF is authoritative but not infallible.

Feel free to continue this discussion, but I only chose to answer the question posed to me. I don’t think its germane to the discussion at hand. - “how does gay marriage harm society?”

 

[sedonaman]

Because it would not be limited to homosexuals.

…
WHY ROE V. WADE MAKES SAME-SEX MARRIAGE UNCONSTITUTIONAL

Roe. v. Wade has meaning far beyond that of abortion. Roe means that women have nearly chattel control over reproduction. Roe is the keystone for false family law and public policy holding that the father is unimportant in family, childbearing, and child-rearing.

Roe extends the biological fact that men cannot have children into discriminatory public policy wherein the mother has sole and unquestioned authority to dictate whether the father can be a father, beginning the moment a child is born.

MARRIAGE AS A NATURAL EQUAL-RIGHTS INSTITUTION: PARALLELS IN RACIAL-EQUALITY DECISIONS

Brown v. Board of Education ruled that “separate is not equal” with respect to race and education. Subsequent rulings expanded Brown to cover many other areas of civil rights law and race – such as interracial marriage – which also decreases racial segregation.

Same-sex marriage is a contradictory construct because it segregates by sex.

Same-sex marriage would create two separate and unequal classes of parents based on sex. If two women married each other, they would have complete control of reproduction and chattel control of children born into the relationship. [Even] If the identity of the father was known, he would have little rights even to know his children, and could do so only by filing a custody suit at great expense. He would still have to support the children while having no right to be a parent. At law, he would continue to have no natural right to be a parent or husband, but would have all the responsibilities of one.
…

Deconstruction of fatherhood since 1960 has resulted in very large numbers of young men not becoming a part of society.

SAME-SEX MARRIAGE AND CIVIL UNIONS: REPLACING WELFARE AND MARRIAGE WITH “SUPER-FAMILIES”

Where women have unilateral control over reproduction under Roe v. Wade, same-sex marriage and civil unions would have the effect of leaving men completely without standing in society. This has been a primary goal of the National Organization of Women for the past thirty years.

Why would N.O.W. throw so many resources into this effort, when only a very small percentage of their members are lesbians? Why would the “normal” women of N.O.W. fight for it too? Answer: The political objective of the National Organization of Women, for some time, has been to sequester all the benefits of marriage, child tax-credits, and welfare solely for women.

WHY SAME-SEX MARRIAGE AND CIVIL UNIONS WOULD BE HIGHLY DESTRUCTIVE OF SOCIETY

It is important to realize that there is essentially no structural difference between same-sex marriage and “civil unions” as permitted in some jurisdictions. In both cases, women can segregate and form “super-families”, and men can do nothing about it.

With a present divorce rate of over 50%, and approximately 25% of mothers being unmarried, we can predict that when word gets around the gossip networks, we will see a rush towards married two-mother households, with live-out boyfriends being relegated to stud duty.
…

Call this arrangement a “super-family” because it would have six sources of income: the incomes of two married mothers, two sets of child-support orders, and two sets of welfare entitlements. Heterosexual marriages have only two incomes, and would clearly be an economically inferior choice.
…

Unquote.
“WHY GAY MARRIAGE IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL”
by David R. Usher
February 24, 2004
mensnewsdaily.com/archive/u-v/usher/2004/usher022404.htm

Once you pull out the stops on the last taboo, anything goes.

 

[Publisher]

The real number of gays as a % is 1-3%

Then there is even LESS of a problem I’d think with same sex marriage.

Seems like hetero’s have managed to weaken the foundation of western civilization all by themselves.