how does gay marriage harm society?

[Charlemagne_II]

Eugenius

To give an excuse that people can’t do a good job raising children under less than ideal circumstances rings false with me as a justification for denying someone to get married.

There are no idea circumstances for rearing any child. But some circumstances are decidedly better than others.

Pity the heterosexual boy who is adopted by two homosexual males. What chance has he at all of developing a normal heterosexual identity?

 

[rockerchar]

You are twisting what I said, I was not questioning God’s intent and procreation or calling them excuses. I’m referring to statements such as those implying that homosexual couples shouldn’t be allowed to marry simply because there wouldn’t be a male and a female role model in the home. Children are raised by single parents all the time, whether through divorce, out-of-wedlock, abandonment, death, etc. My own grandfather died young leaving children under the age of fourteen and my grandmother raised her children well without a male role model for them. To give an excuse that people can’t do a good job raising children under less than ideal circumstances rings false with me as a justification for denying someone to get married.

 

[rockerchar]

Your grandmother deserves much credit. However, the argument you raise is not new. It has been raised enough times before and refuted effectively, as in this good counter as drawn by researchers Katharine Young and Paul Nathanson here. These two writers are neither Catholic nor in full agreement with Church teaching on homosexuality. One of them, in fact, is admittedly gay.

Here is another related article by them: Keeping It All In The Family
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The American Association of Child and Adolescent Psychology makes a very different argument than Young and Paul.


What effect does having LGBT parents have on children?

Current research shows that children with gay and lesbian parents do not differ from children with heterosexual parents in their emotional development or in their relationships with peers and adults. It is the quality of the parent/child relationship and not the parent’s sexual orientation that has an effect on a child’s development. Contrary to popular belief, children of lesbian, gay, or transgender parents:

Are not more likely to be gay than children with heterosexual parents.
Are not more likely to be sexually abused.
Do not show differences in whether they think of themselves as male or female (gender identity).
Do not show differences in their male and female behaviors (gender role behavior).

aacap.org/cs/root/facts_for_families/children_with_lesbian_gay_bisexual_and_transgender_parents

 

[GraceSofia]

Current research has shown that a high percentage of children with LGB parents identified as non-heterosexual compared to children with heterosexual parents: 20.3% to 4.3%. And that increased when the children were over 17.

Also, consider the importance of parental modeling of sexual orientation and parental preference for a child’s sexual orientation influence. I would think that a heterosexual child being raised by LGB parents could have unbearable amounts of pressure put on him/her. The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith says,

**“Allowing children to be adopted by persons living in such unions would actually mean doing violence to these children, in the sense that their condition of dependency would be used to place them in an environment that is not conducive to their full human development. This is gravely immoral and in open contradiction to the principle, recognized also in the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, that the best interests of the child, as the weaker and more vulnerable party, are to be the paramount consideration in every case.” **

Of course, the outcome of the child’s sexuality is not the only issue. A child being raised where the parents are living intrinsically disordered lifestyles is exposed to many developmental challenges. Not to mention that homosexuals have more physical and mental health problems.

See Study Suggests Children Raised by LGBT Parents More Likely to Grow Up Gay or Bisexual

And CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH:
CONSIDERATIONS REGARDING PROPOSALS TO GIVE LEGAL RECOGNITION TO NIONS BETWEEN HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS

 

[Elizabeth502]

awesome, now you’re quoting an excommunicated heretic who supports everything anti-Catholic teaching! this is offensive trash

Truly. McNeill is a real “authority.” (Not)

queeringthechurch.com/tag/john-mcneill/

johnjmcneill.com

Charming.

 

[RobbyS]

How does gay marriage harm society? I can perceive no harm. From what I have seen, gays and lesbians couldn’t do a worse job with marriage than their hetero counterparts.

One of the people who was running for president of the U.S., although I think he has now dropped out, has been married four times.

I know many people who have had two, three and four marriages. It is no longer the exception, it is the norm - and this includes Catholics as well.

The last poster asked, "How does gay marriage help society?

Well, perhaps one way might be to allow gay couples to enter into committed relationships and receive the same benefits as their hetero counterparts, including rights of inheritance, division of property, etc, which is what marriage was created for in the first place.

I also always find it confusing that Christians condemn both gay marriage and gay people who act on their orientation. If I understand it correctly, Catholics expect gay men and women to remain celibate their entire life. How realistic is that?

I would have thought Christians would welcome the idea of gay marriage as a way of reducing the promiscuity they so often condemned.

I would like to ask whether people enjoy the status quo? By that, I mean people who marry for appearances, then have a “boys night out” every so often. These men don’t identify as gay, because they are married and usually have children. But they also like to dally in the other valley, so to speak.

For those who think this isn’t prevalent, consider the federal government, and other agencies, no longer use homosexual or gay (if they ever did) when identifying people, especially in health-related situations. They are called MSM or men who have sex with men because there are substantial numbers of men who say they aren’t gay, but who do have sex with other men.

Perhaps if gay marriage were allowed, these men would not have had to marry a woman to keep up appearances. I am sure the women don’t appreciate it. Those who I have had contact with are usually pretty angry, hurt and confused.

There are many facets to the subject of gay marriage.

Peace.

Jung’s quick assessment was that homosexuality was an urban phenomenon, because in such a society, sexual roles easily become confused Whereas in a rural society, relationships are perrty much laid out.

 

[RobbyS]

You are twisting what I said, I was not questioning God’s intent and procreation or calling them excuses. I’m referring to statements such as those implying that homosexual couples shouldn’t be allowed to marry simply because there wouldn’t be a male and a female role model in the home. Children are raised by single parents all the time, whether through divorce, out-of-wedlock, abandonment, death, etc. My own grandfather died young leaving children under the age of fourteen and my grandmother raised her children well without a male role model for them. To give an excuse that people can’t do a good job raising children under less than ideal circumstances rings false with me as a justification for denying someone to get married.

Having homosexual parents is bound to have an effect on the child’s notion of gender. Not so in a single-parent home. In each case a mother/father is absent, but in an ordinary single-parent household there is no doubt what gender the parent belongs to.

 

[Eugenius]

Pity the heterosexual boy who is adopted by two homosexual males. What chance has he at all of developing a normal heterosexual identity?

Are you serious? You see, this is exactly the kind of nonsense that we Catholics seem to enjoy perpetuating when many people are experiencing exactly the opposite on a day-to-day basis. Do we think kids grow up in a vacuum isolated from the rest of society? I actually do know a boy that was raised from a very young age by a homosexual man and his long-term partner. The parents of the boy were both killed in a car accident and he was left to be raised by his gay uncle. He has grown up to be a bright, intelligent young man, graduated college with good grades and has a beautiful wife and three young children. Pity him?

I do pity the family down the street from me that is going through a divorce. The couple have five young children and the mother was having an affair with the young man working at the convenience store on the corner. The father is a hot head who can’t control his spending and the family car has been repossessed twice, yet he has a cabinet full of guns that he refuses to sell because it is his constitutional right to have them. Thankfully they will not be condemned to stoning because Christianity has thrown those ancient laws out the window and they will most likely end up getting married again…and again…because this too is now permissible. But somehow this will be okay, my tax money will probably help keep them going and nobody will use them as an example for why heterosexual marriage harms society.

Okay, I see your point. I’ll pity the young successful kid raised by the two homosexuals. He had an awful upbringing and poses a treat to my marriage. I’m sure my wife will appreciate that we are safe now

 

[Elizabeth502]

The parents of the boy were both killed in a car accident and he was left to be raised by his gay uncle. He has grown up to be a bright, intelligent young man, graduated college with good grades and has a beautiful wife and three young children. Pity him?

I do pity the family down the street from me that is going through a divorce. The couple have five young children and the mother was having an affair with the young man working at the convenience store on the corner. The father is a hot head who can’t control his spending and the family car has been repossessed twice, yet he has a cabinet full of guns that he refuses to sell because it is his constitutional right to have them.

Yeah, no question that makes perfect sense – the comparison of a rescued parental situation (one gay parent, who was not living, modeling a homosexual relationship) versus a highly dysfunctional different environment that happened to be heterosexual. Right, you make a great point. (Not.)

 

[Eugenius]

Yeah, no question that makes perfect sense – the comparison of a rescued parental situation (one gay parent, who was not living, modeling a homosexual relationship) versus a highly dysfunctional different environment that happened to be heterosexual. Right, you make a great point. (Not.)

Actually I make an excellent point, you just don’t want to admit it. Let me see if I can get this eye-rolling thing right Great, I guess I really learned something new

I’m not sure you understood what I said earlier. The boy’s parents (man and woman) were in an accident. They were raised by his homosexual uncle and his uncle’s long-term partner.

Homosexuals can and do successfully live in long-term relationships and raise children.

Heterosexuals can and do mess things up, get divorced (aren’t current statistics around 50%), and serve as poor role models for holy sanctimony.

What is there that you don’t get?

The fact is, Catholics are called to practice what is defined in the Cathecism. In my opinion anything else is just an excuse for discrimination. I have to thank people on CAF for this knowledge. I grew so disgusted with statements that go beyond what the Cathecism really says that I set out to meet some long-term homosexual couples and talk to them myself. What people here are claiming is not the reality that I am seeing.

 

[GraceSofia]

How does gay marriage harm society?
By forcing Catholic Charities to shut down adoption services around the country.

This trend is not about equality or freedom or love. We know this because states could allow unmarried heterosexual couples and homosexuals to adopt children and become foster parents without forcing the Catholic Church to violate its beliefs or shut down its services. The secular state could easily make room for both if it wanted. But every indication is that it wants to force the Church to conform to its irrational and immoral beliefs or be driven out of the public sector.

Thus, it seems to me that these laws are hostile, that they are an early sign of state aggression against the Catholic Church and anyone who stands in the state’s way. In part two of his encyclical, God Is Love, Pope Benedict XVI tells us that the Church is uniquely qualified to contribute to social justice through charitable service, and she must be free to serve. I hope and pray that Catholics have the courage to stand up to those in our state legislatures who would turn our government against its people and the Church.

Catholic Charities Forced to Shut Down Services

 

[Charlemagne_II]

How does gay marriage harm society?

By degrading our common sense?

 

[InSearchofGrace]

Are you serious? You see, this is exactly the kind of nonsense that we Catholics seem to enjoy perpetuating when many people are experiencing exactly the opposite on a day-to-day basis. Do we think kids grow up in a vacuum isolated from the rest of society? I actually do know a boy that was raised from a very young age by a homosexual man and his long-term partner. The parents of the boy were both killed in a car accident and he was left to be raised by his gay uncle. He has grown up to be a bright, intelligent young man, graduated college with good grades and has a beautiful wife and three young children. Pity him?

I do pity the family down the street from me that is going through a divorce. The couple have five young children and the mother was having an affair with the young man working at the convenience store on the corner. The father is a hot head who can’t control his spending and the family car has been repossessed twice, yet he has a cabinet full of guns that he refuses to sell because it is his constitutional right to have them. Thankfully they will not be condemned to stoning because Christianity has thrown those ancient laws out the window and they will most likely end up getting married again…and again…because this too is now permissible. But somehow this will be okay, my tax money will probably help keep them going and nobody will use them as an example for why heterosexual marriage harms society.

Okay, I see your point. I’ll pity the young successful kid raised by the two homosexuals. He had an awful upbringing and poses a treat to my marriage. I’m sure my wife will appreciate that we are safe now

From two situations, you choose to view the world through the prism of homosexualist ideology. Are you promoting this ideology, which goes against clear Church instruction?

The fact that there are bad traditional marriages is not justification to believe that homosexual marriages are better unions. Gay activists use exceptions so people would set aside the reality of the general picture of homosexual partnerships. Statistically, not based on two situations, homosexual couples have a higher incidence of promiscuity (also consensual infidelity), HIV, violence, substance abuse, and mental health problems. Statistics On The Homosexual Lifestyle here.

As for your example of the boy raised by his homosexual uncle and partner, I know my husband and I would not want the same if such a tragedy claimed us while our two sons were young children.

I recommend you read Defending a Higher Law: Why We Must Resist Same-Sex “Marriage” and the Homosexual Movement. Page 105 on the Romantic Myth and the Tragic Reality addresses what you raised in your post.
,

 

[Elizabeth502]

I’m not sure you understood what I said earlier.

(1) I understand perfectly that you are not comparing comparable settings That’s what the word “compare” means.

(2) There is nothing that I don’t “get,” but plenty that you do not.

(3) I understand that you are not more intelligent, informed, or educated than I am – not in general, and not about Catholicism. Despite your dismissive tone of voice. And actually I’m a better debater; that’s already obvious.

I grew so disgusted with statements that go beyond what the Cathecism really says

The Catechism sets out the moral framework that is absolute. Beyond that, the local hierarchy is charged with interpreting moral doctrine, including guiding how that should be used to inform voting decisions, both broadly and in some cases specifically. Here is what your United States bishops say about the issue and the overriding concerns that faithful Catholics are to keep in their priorities, particularly point #4 and beyond:

usccb.org/comm/samesexbriefing.shtml

Here are several links which include several authoritative sources, including the Vatican, and its comments regarding the effect on youth of such unions:

usccb.org/laity/marriage/samesexunions.shtml

Nowhere in these links do clergy deny or contradict what the Catechism teaches. Rather they define further what those teachings require of us as Catholics.

 

[GraceSofia]

I recommend you read Defending a Higher Law: Why We Must Resist Same-Sex “Marriage” and the Homosexual Movement.
,

Thanks for posting this! I’ve only read about 30 pages, but it is already obvious that this is a valuable reference.

 

[Aramis]

Are you serious? You see, this is exactly the kind of nonsense that we Catholics seem to enjoy perpetuating when many people are experiencing exactly the opposite on a day-to-day basis. Do we think kids grow up in a vacuum isolated from the rest of society? I actually do know a boy that was raised from a very young age by a homosexual man and his long-term partner. The parents of the boy were both killed in a car accident and he was left to be raised by his gay uncle. He has grown up to be a bright, intelligent young man, graduated college with good grades and has a beautiful wife and three young children. Pity him?
)

He’s the exception.

 

[InSearchofGrace]

Thanks for posting this! I’ve only read about 30 pages, but it is already obvious that this is a valuable reference.

You’re welcome, GS. A valuable reference it is.
,

 

[Eugenius]

Wow, Elizabeth. I now feel like I’ve been reprimanded by my ten-year-old.

I was pretty clear above when I said “What people here are claiming is not the reality that I am seeing.” That wasn’t a debate, it was a fact. People can claim all the “exceptions” that they want, but I’m not going to pre-judge the success of personal relationships or their ability to raise children until I’ve been given due cause in their particular case.

 

[Eugenius]

He’s the exception.

Then there are a lot of exceptions out there.

 

[Eugenius]

How does gay marriage harm society?
By forcing Catholic Charities to shut down adoption services around the country.

Catholic Charities Forced to Shut Down Services

It is my understanding that Catholic Charities can continue but without federal funding. It just means that Catholics need to step up to the plate and fund it ourselves. I believe in limited government anyway, the government should not be in the adoption business in the first place.