how does gay marriage harm society?

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“Those who refuse to learn from history are condemned to repeat it.” Why are we repeating it?” George Santayana

As Will Durant said in “The Lessons of History,” a sequel to his monumental multi-volume history of the human race:

“History offers some consolation by reminding us that sin has flourished in every age. Even our generation has not yet rivaled the popularity of homosexualism in ancient Greece or Rome or Renaissance Italy.”

Durant said that in 1968.

He couldn’t say it today. What he would have to say is that today homosexualism has outdone the homosexualism of Ancient Greece and Rome. In Greece and Rome men certainly committed sodomy with other men, but they never dared to demand that it be enshrined in the law.
 
Elizabeth, in my experiences with woman who hate gay men, I’ve discovered that most of them do so because gay men are not able to be controlled by the woman’s sexual prowesses. The right woman can get anything she wants from a heterosexual man; unfortunately, she cannot control a gay man with her sexuality.
 
Elizabeth, in my experiences with woman who hate gay men, I’ve discovered that most of them do so because gay men are not able to be controlled by the woman’s sexual prowesses. The right woman can get anything she wants from a heterosexual man; unfortunately, she cannot control a gay man with her sexuality.
I cannot speak for “women who hate gay men,” since I am definitely not one of them. Perhaps you would like to conduct a survey, though, of those women who supposedly do “hate gay men,” and ask them why they hate gay men (because I would have no idea why any woman hates any gay man), and then you could report your findings back to us. :rolleyes:

For the record, most of us women feel that men control us with their sexuality ;), not the other way around, although I can think of a couple of men who would tell me otherwise, but only on an individual, not general, basis.

Have a nice day. (And boy do you not know women. None of my friends, relatives, acquaintances and associates who are female fit your “experience” and “discoveries.”)
:dts:
 
Elizabeth, in my experiences with woman who hate gay men, I’ve discovered that most of them do so because gay men are not able to be controlled by the woman’s sexual prowesses. The right woman can get anything she wants from a heterosexual man; unfortunately, she cannot control a gay man with her sexuality.
I’ve been reading your posts over the last 48 hours or so, jrgiancola, and I would suggest that before you continue lecturing us poor Catholics on how we don’t really know what the Catholic Church is all about, you might want to get that board out of your own eye. Seriously, you’ve bashed on women now in two different threads, in one of them, you called out a woman by name, completely unknown to you, and stated that women use their sexual prowess to get what they want and that they hate gay men because it won’t work on them.

You seem at best confused and at worst purposefully malevolent. I am sorry that about the loss of your wife. That will not excuse your behavior, no matter how much of a “greek god” you were allegedly were in your youth (from yet another thread).
 
However, the argument in favour of this point falls down simply because equating the marriage of two people of the same sex with marriage between two people of a different sex is the invention of something totally new, never before done in human history and it actually goes past the granting of equal rights to the point of granting special rights. The removal of a bar to same sex marriage will make a certain group of people more equal…
Out of curiosity, how are you defining marriage here? Many of the “rights” homosexuals think they want from marriage are already available through living wills, power of attorney, etc. So those aspects of marriage would obviously not fall into the “never before done” category.

In addition Europeans scoffed at the idea of citizens ruling themselves when the United States was founded, and people now take for granted numerous inventions and social changes that never had been done before, so there is a lot of precedence for change and new ways of doing things. How does this affect the argument? (And before anyone says anything, no, my comments do not mean I am for gay marriage).
…society is nothing more than a grouping of people each of whom are chasing their own desires and ignoring the common good.
Unfortunately I’m afraid we are already there, the first chapter of Romans makes it very clear why these things are happening. That’s one reason why I keep harping on the need to address the divorce rate.
 
Thank you, Elizabeth for having the decency to quote me correctly. I bite my thumb at you for quoting only those controversial remarks and only those that disagree with your own views. I’ve written many more posts which many of the readers would, I believe, like and agree with. You remind me of those evangelical religions. Pick only the quotes that are self-serving.
 
Dear Michelle, you sound like a very unhappy, frustrated woman. Perhaps you should get a life.

I am a Roman Catholic man who:

believes that gay marriage should be permitted;
believes that artificial contraception is not a sin;
believes that masturbation is not a sin; and
believes that abortion is immoral and a grievous sin.

does not believe in censorship of any kind, even though that includes porn; and
does not believe that the government should interfere in reproductive decisions which
should be between only the family and God .

You are free to disagree with me, of course; but please keep your frustrations to yourself.

I am a Catholic because:

Christ Himself established our church upon Peter;
The Eucharist IS truly the body and blood of Christ;
Our Blessed Mother IS the Immaculate Conception and a perpetual Virgin;
the Pope IS the vicar of Christ on Earth;
Jesus IS the true Son of God, the 2nd person of the Trinity;
Jesus IS the Divine Mercy of Our Father; and
God IS love.

Jesus said that any city which rejected His disciples would fare worse than Sodom and Gomorrah. This tells me that Jesus was much more concerned about the foregoing reasons I am a Catholic, than He was about human sexual behavior. Not that “anything goes;” I’m not that liberal. But there are just some things more important than human sexual behavior in God’s eyes.

If you don’t like my postings, then don’t read them. I WILL, however, continue to read yours. I get a lot of laughs from them.
 
By the way, I truly am not malevolent. But I am quite arrogant. I’ll have to work on that. However, people like you tend to bring out that side of me. I have to remember: Love thy neighbor… love thy neighbor… love thy neighbor. It’s the hardest commandment to follow.
 
Dear Michelle, you sound like a very unhappy, frustrated woman. Perhaps you should get a life.

I am a Roman Catholic man who:

believes that gay marriage should be permitted;
believes that artificial contraception is not a sin;
believes that masturbation is not a sin; and
believes that abortion is immoral and a grievous sin.

does not believe in censorship of any kind, even though that includes porn; and
does not believe that the government should interfere in reproductive decisions which
should be between only the family and God .

You are free to disagree with me, of course; but please keep your frustrations to yourself.

I am a Catholic because:

Christ Himself established our church upon Peter;
The Eucharist IS truly the body and blood of Christ;
Our Blessed Mother IS the Immaculate Conception and a perpetual Virgin;
the Pope IS the vicar of Christ on Earth;
Jesus IS the true Son of God, the 2nd person of the Trinity;
Jesus IS the Divine Mercy of Our Father; and
God IS love.

Jesus said that any city which rejected His disciples would fare worse than Sodom and Gomorrah. This tells me that Jesus was much more concerned about the foregoing reasons I am a Catholic, than He was about human sexual behavior. Not that “anything goes;” I’m not that liberal. But there are just some things more important than human sexual behavior in God’s eyes.

If you don’t like my postings, then don’t read them. I WILL, however, continue to read yours. I get a lot of laughs from them.
You really need to do some homework. Your assessment of michellds is stupid, to put it bluntly. She is a very happy, satisfied woman of great intellect. I can personally vouch for what I have written. You, however, begin your character assasination with the phrase “…you sound like…”. In other words, you presumed and assumed the character of another and then posted accordingly. In your next post you admit to arrogance. If I were you I’d admit to a whole lot more. I consider you owe michelleds an apology.

The next point is you identify yourself as a heritic. The things you say you believe in are anathema to the Catholic Church. Yet the arrogance you admit to makes you think you are more correct than thousands of philosophers, theologians and others who have arrived at rational and objective truths. Man, that’s not arrogance on your part, it’s somthing far worse. With a bit of hard work you might work a cure.
 
Thank you, Elizabeth for having the decency to quote me correctly. I bite my thumb at you for quoting only those controversial remarks and only those that disagree with your own views. I’ve written many more posts which many of the readers would, I believe, like and agree with. You remind me of those evangelical religions. Pick only the quotes that are self-serving.
“Self-serving?” I think your mirror is pointed in the wrong direction. I spoke to your “controversial remarks” because those are the ones I disagree with. I’m not addressing “many more posts which many of the readers would…like and agree with.” (And as to the latter, we are only taking your word for that.) You made a provocative, insulting statement, extremely personal statement, about me, my motivations, even “hatred” I have which I do not have (and for which I could report you to the mods), when you have no clue who I am, nor would you know a single thing about my very harmonious relationship with the opposite sex. You know nothing about me. You classify people you have zero information about.

Ditto for what you just said about michelle. She is a happy, peaceful woman, yet you characterized her as
a very unhappy, frustrated woman
…which, as John just pointed out to you, is the last thing she is.

And although you say you are not malevolent, you do admit that you are arrogant, and arrogance achieves the same result as malevolence: it alienates people.
 
jrgiancola :
  1. Soddom and Gamorrah were destroyed because of sins of the flesh, including homosexuality and fornication. I would suggest reading also the talmudic commentaries on it… showing that the traditional Jewish view also matches that of the traditional Catholic view
  2. I strongly suggest you actually read Humanae Vitae, and also the Catechism of the Catholic Church. (You can find them at vatican.va ) They make it clear that Catholics are required to obey the prohibitions on homosexual acts, artificial birth control, and masterbation, even if they disagree with them (disagreement doesn’t earn you the anathema, open disobedience does).
 
Once again the issue defined.

articles.boston.com/2011-06-12/news/29650453_1_pride-parade-catholic-archdiocese-gay-pride-month

The belief promoted by some Catholics and ex-Catholics that good (the Church) is to be censured as evil and that evil (sodomy) is to be celebrated as good.
the article quotes two different people criticizing the Church for not “welcoming everyone as Jesus did”. However, this is just another example also of the media either being ignorant or willfully misleading. the Church is welcoming of everyone, but it doesn’t invite, condone, encourage, or affirm sinful behavior!! Jesus didn’t either…he told the adulterous woman to “go and sin no more” not “go on with your bad self”.
 
michelleds
**
he told the adulterous woman to “go and sin no more” not “go on with your bad self”. **

Which he says to all of us. 👍
 
The belief that a god would create or permit the creation of homosexuals and then condemn them for forming loving, intimate relationships with each other is incongruent with Our Father, who is love itself, Jesus who is the divine mercy of God, and the Holy Spirit who is the giver of life. Scripture cannot be interpreted in a way which denies who God is. Therefore, many Catholics, including myself, look to reconcile the truth of Scripture with the truth of its writer.

In Mistici Corporus Christi, written by Pope Pius XII in 1943, paragraphs 29 and 30, he declared that the Old Testament law was completed by Jesus and not binding on Christians. In fact, he used some of the same NT quotes that I have used in other postings. Therefore, we must look to the NT for guidance.

There is every reason to believe that any of St. Paul’s exhortations against homosexual behavior were directed towards heterosexuals who engaged in homosexual behavior simply to satisfy their lusts. Even in Sodom, Lot offered his daughters to the those who desired to rape the men, indicating that the rapists were capable of enjoying relations with the opposite sex, i.e., they had a choice. In ancient Greece and Rome, it was acceptable for heterosexuals to engage in homosexual behavior simply to satisfy their lusts.

Please note that Jesus Himself did not even address the issue. His concern was that the sanctity of marriage be preserved, i.e., divorce and adultery are not acceptable.

While a homosexual man or woman may, under certain circumstances, be able to perform sexually with someone of the opposite sex, it is unnatural for them to do so. True gay men and women are spiritually, mentally, emotionally and physically able to form the kind of intimate relationships that heterosexuals enjoy ONLY with members of their own sex. It is not a choice for them; it is simply the way they are.

Therefore, it is not unreasonable to conclude that God did not intend homosexual prohibitions to extend to homosexual beings but, rather, only to heterosexual beings. Many Catholic lay and religious believe this. I am not the only one by any means.

But let’s say, for the sake of argument, that you are totally correct regarding the letter of the law, either one, OT or NT. Then why did Jesus condemn the Pharisees? Firstly, because they did not follow the law themselves, but secondly because they used the law, in the name of God, to oppress people. They had no understanding of what some call “the heart of the law,” which is God’s love, His understanding, His mercy and compassion.

St. Paul says that if you break one tiny letter of the law, you are guilty of violating the entire law. If you do not honor your mother, for example, you are also therefore guilty of adultery, stealing, lying, taking the name of God in vain, etc. He also said that following the law will not save you. In fact, he called the OT law a curse and thanked God that Jesus freed him from that curse.

Jesus said we will be measured in the same way we measure others. I choose to measure homosexuals with compassion, dignity, mercy and love. I treat them as I would like to be treated, as Jesus told us to do.

You people deny that you hate homosexuals. Well, I can think of no better way to hate someone than to deny one dignity, acceptance and those inalienable human rights granted by God which include the right to love, be loved and share intimate love with another human being.

In time, I believe our Holy Church will once and for all believe similarly and grant homosexuals the right to marry. I may not see it in my lifetime, but I believe it will happen in God’s own time. One thing I do trust is the RCC. It’s not completely free from the errors of men, but at least in the past it has been willing to make change when the Holy Spirit inspired it to do so (and for that matter, when science proved its errors; Galileo was right, remember?)

So you people continue to stick to the letter of the law and continue to oppress anyone you can with the letter of the law. In my opinion, you are the “whited sepulchres” of the modern age, and Jesus will judge you as you have judged homosexuals.

In the meantime, I will continue to believe that Jesus will judge me by how much love, mercy, understanding, compassion and aide I was willing to give to all my brothers (and sisters) on earth, particularly the least of these. May he give me the strength to do this; some people are so very hard to love. I will pray for you all; pray for me too.
 
This will be my last post on this thread. Now don’t talk about me behind my back 😛
 
jrgiancola

You people deny that you hate homosexuals. Well, I can think of no better way to hate someone than to deny one dignity, acceptance and those inalienable human rights granted by God which include the right to love, be loved and share intimate love with another human being.

Silly-putty logic. Another Catholic who thinks what is evil (sodomy) is good.As Saint Hidegard remarked:

“The devil keeps man from good with a thousand machinations spewed from his belly, so that when a person sighs to do good, he pierces him with his shafts; and when he desires to embrace God with his whole heart in love, he subjects him to poisonous tribulations, seeking to pervert good work before God. And when a person seeks the innocence of virtue, the devil tells him that he does not know what he is doing, and he teaches him that he can set his own law for himself.”
 
This will be my last post on this thread. Now don’t talk about me behind my back 😛
If you had the courage of your convictions in your post 194, you would want to engage your debaters whom you accuse of “hate.” Posters like you are referred to in discussion forums as “drive-by” posters or “hit-and-run” posters – refusing to take responsibility for their words, or to face the music.
I choose to measure homosexuals with compassion, dignity, mercy and love. I treat them as I would like to be treated, as Jesus told us to do.
So do I, so do many posters on CAF and off CAF who follow faithfully Catholic teaching on the subject of homosexual behavior vs. homosexual persons. We’re not judging homosexuals, and they don’t have “rights” to marriage. As to this:
I can think of no better way to hate someone than to deny one dignity, acceptance and those inalienable human rights granted by God which include the right to love, be loved and share intimate love with another human being.
I haven’t denied them that. Other posters haven’t denied them that. The Constitution doesn’t deny them that. The Church doesn’t deny them that. They are free to love and associate with whomever they wish, as are all of us. The institution of marriage is an entirely different issue.

But hey, you’re not listening, because you’ve created your own stereotypes and possibly get some satisfaction out of constructing phantom enemies.
🤷
 
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