How does having to provide birth control justify shutting down hospitals?

[HelenRose]

I think a better analogy would be:

If I sell a gun to your daughter, and she goes and shoots somebody with it, am I morally responsible for that person’s death?

Yes if you knew that what she was going to do.

 

[irishOntarian]

I fully appreciate that, and I don’t think the church is being a baby about it. I think they are up against extreme oppression. I am just trying to understand, from an outside perspective, how this would actually be a better choice in the face of that oppression. It certainly would be in the minds of Catholics and the Church, but its certainly backwards to anybody outside of the “murder at conception” camp, especially if they would have gone to that hospital after a car crash.

I guess we just have to make our position as clear to them as possible. Either way, we can’t compromise our own morals.

 

[ricofall]

Do your research before acting like a complete ***. You get me?

Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do

Please be charitable to all members here. He is asked a question in a manner that expresses his mind on a topic without being insulting. Please do not give in to anger ever.

 

[jmvizanko]

Please be charitable to all members here. He is asked a question in a manner that expresses his mind on a topic without being insulting. Please do not give in to anger ever.

Yeah, I thought I wasn’t too nasty. But then I noticed I used the word insane in there. Sorry for that. You know how that and “ridiculous” enter into things so easily…

 

[Equites_Christi]

Please be charitable to all members here. He is asked a question in a manner that expresses his mind on a topic without being insulting. Please do not give in to anger ever.

Seconded. According to his own definition, the poster acted like a fool.

 

[thewanderer]

Yeah, I thought I wasn’t too nasty. But then I noticed I used the word insane in there. Sorry for that. You know how that and “ridiculous” enter into things so easily…

I thought that you came across as being quite polite actually, although I didn’t notice the word ‘insane’ until later.

 

[HelenRose]

Got it. And I think there is nothing left for me to try to understand about your stance. The principle reason why I can’t see it is because I don’t think murder begins at conception. But why I think that is a different debate.

I guess at least we both agree its **** that this is even a possibility.

I look at it this way - very personal - if I had been killed when I was an individual, unique zygot or an embryo - I would be just as dead as if I had been killed at three months of age. My awareness that I was unwanted and unloved would be the same. My potential of becoming an adult would be the same. A baby looks far more like an embryo that than that of an adult.

The Church teaches that human life is sacred and will not back away from that.

 

[jmvizanko]

I guess we just have to make our position as clear to them as possible. Either way, we can’t compromise our own morals.

Well and if it really isn’t a compromise that can be made, PERIOD, then I hope the current administration realizes that the “we’ll shut them down” threat is not just a threat. Of course, having hope in the current administration is another matter…

 

[dirthog]

Yes you would be if she told you she was going to kill someone with it.

I think a better analogy would be:

If I sell a gun to your daughter, and she goes and shoots somebody with it, am I morally responsible for that person’s death?

 

[jmvizanko]

I look at it this way - very personal - if I had been killed when I was an individual, unique zygot or an embryo - I would be just as dead as if I had killed at three months of age. My awarenss that I was unwanted and unloved would be the same. My potential of becoming an adult would be the same. A baby looks far more like an embryo that than that of an adult.

Well we could derail the thread here and get into that debate, but probably better for another topic. That I’m sure has been hammered to death somewhere.

The Church teaches that human life is sacred and will not back away from that.

And that is fair enough for the church. I will still see it as a tragedy though, that hospitals will be shut down because of the church, when there are many people that use them that do not believe in the teachings of the church, if this actually transpires.

 

[jmvizanko]

Yes you would be if she told you she was going to kill someone with it.

Well what if somebody, who has had a hysterectomy, wants to take that “gun” and use it to fight acne? Sure that’s a low percentage, but is it wrong to give it to them?

 

[thewanderer]

Well we could derail the thread here and get into that debate, but probably better for another topic. That I’m sure has been hammered to death somewhere.

And that is fair enough for the church. I will still see it as a tragedy though, that hospitals will be shut down because of the church, when there are many people that use them that do not believe in the teachings of the church, if this actually transpires.

As you should because if it happens it will be a tragedy.

 

[TEPO]

Two things.

A). What harm will result from closing Catholic hospitals…?

B). Why would a non-Catholic care…?

 

[HelenRose]

Well we could derail the thread here and get into that debate, but probably better for another topic. That I’m sure has been hammered to death somewhere.

And that is fair enough for the church. I will still see it as a tragedy though, that hospitals will be shut down because of the church, when there are many people that use them that do not believe in the teachings of the church, if this actually transpires.

If the Church bends to the government’s demands She will become a servant of the
government and the hospitals will be controlled by the government.

If She does not back down and loses this battle the hospitals will not close down. They will be taken over and controlled by the government.

If She stands Her ground and wins - freedom of religion will continue as it has since the signing of our Constitution.

 

[thewanderer]

Well what if somebody, who has had a hysterectomy, wants to take that “gun” and use it to fight acne? Sure that’s a low percentage, but is it wrong to give it to them?

no, it is not wrong to give it to them. The problem is that hospitals would not be allowed to refuse to administer these drugs to those who they know are not in such a circumstance. Do you really think a hospital won’t know why a particular drug is being administered to one of its patients? It will come up and the hospital staff will be forced to violate their conciouses in this matter or be run out of buisness.

 

[jmvizanko]

If She stands Her ground and wins - freedom of religion will continue as it has since the signing of our Constitution.

Which, for the record, is what I’m hoping happens. I consider whatever happens with the hospitals, even if it is unnecessarily tragic to me, only a response to the government doing what it shouldn’t be allowed to do.

 

[TEPO]

Which, for the record, is what I’m hoping happens. I consider whatever happens with the hospitals, even if it is unnecessarily tragic to me, only a response to the government doing what it shouldn’t be allowed to do.

Wow. I really wasn’t expecting that.
Sorry for assuming otherwise.

 

[dirthog]

Really? I didn’t know woman that have had a hysterectomy and need to treat acne only had one option for treatment. It’s sounds like the treatment I have heard for not getting pregnant
called abstinence.

Well what if somebody, who has had a hysterectomy, wants to take that “gun” and use it to fight acne? Sure that’s a low percentage, but is it wrong to give it to them?

 

[jmvizanko]

Wow. I really wasn’t expecting that.
Sorry for assuming otherwise.

Well I firmly believe in freedom of religion, and this is a blatant violation of that, even though its not my religion (or lack thereof).

That aside though, I still find it tragic that so many hospitals in our country are run by people that would literally shut them down over having to do this. It would be one thing if Catholic hospitals only treated Catholics…

 

[jmvizanko]

Really? I didn’t know woman that have had a hysterectomy and need to treat acne only had one option for treatment. It’s sounds like the treatment I have heard for not getting pregnant
called abstinence.

The pill is widely used to treat acne. You can sit there and assume everyone using it to treat acne is secretly using it as birth control, but that’s just your baseless assumption. My wife used to take it for acne, and she was not sexually active.