How does Jesus defeat the armies of the world at Armageddon?

[TK421]

Wait. Is it just Jesus who is doing the destroying? Or do His armies destroy evil with Him? I mean, do we get to participate… or just watch?

It is a 100% certainty that every Christian - no matter what their circumstances are or when they are born - participates in battle.

There are two camps and there have been two camps since the very beginning of the Church, and it was prophesied in Genesis: the children of the woman and the children of the devil. They fight each other until the final victory.

Physical wars take place in the world on and off but these are not the (primary) battle.

 

[Augustinian]

How can the word of God destroy massive armies? It doesn’t say He converted them, but rather destroyed them.
Why bring an army from Heaven when Jesus is powerful enough to destroy all the armies of the world single-handedly?

Dispensationalists view this chapter more literally, believing there will be a massive battle.

This is not really Catholic belief at all. If you want to know what the dispensationalists think about this, ask them. Hal Lindsey has several books on the matter, and the “Left Behind” series of movies will give you a view of their opinions on this

 

[TK421]

Genesis Chapter 3
I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
They will strike at your head,
while you strike at their heel.

Revelation Chapter 12
Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman, robed with the sun, standing on the moon, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.
She was pregnant, and in labour, crying aloud in the pangs of childbirth.
Then a second sign appeared in the sky: there was a huge red dragon with seven heads and ten horns, and each of the seven heads crowned with a coronet.
Its tail swept a third of the stars from the sky and hurled them to the ground, and the dragon stopped in front of the woman as she was at the point of giving birth, so that it could eat the child as soon as it was born.
The woman was delivered of a boy, the son who was to rule all the nations with an iron sceptre, and the child was taken straight up to God and to his throne,
while the woman escaped into the desert, where God had prepared a place for her to be looked after for twelve hundred and sixty days.
And now war broke out in heaven, when Michael with his angels attacked the dragon. The dragon fought back with his angels,
but they were defeated and driven out of heaven.
The great dragon, the primeval serpent, known as the devil or Satan, who had led all the world astray, was hurled down to the earth and his angels were hurled down with him.
Then I heard a voice shout from heaven, ‘Salvation and power and empire for ever have been won by our God, and all authority for his Christ, now that the accuser, who accused our brothers day and night before our God, has been brought down.
They have triumphed over him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word to which they bore witness, because even in the face of death they did not cling to life.
So let the heavens rejoice and all who live there; but for you, earth and sea, disaster is coming – because the devil has gone down to you in a rage, knowing that he has little time left.’
As soon as the dragon found himself hurled down to the earth, he sprang in pursuit of the woman, the mother of the male child,
but she was given a pair of the great eagle’s wings to fly away from the serpent into the desert, to the place where she was to be looked after for a time, two times and half a time.
So the serpent vomited water from his mouth, like a river, after the woman, to sweep her away in the current,
but the earth came to her rescue; it opened its mouth and swallowed the river spewed from the dragon’s mouth.
Then the dragon was enraged with the woman and went away to make war on the rest of her children, who obey God’s commandments and have in themselves the witness of Jesus.
And I took my stand on the seashore…

Revelation - Chapter 12 - Bible - Catholic Online

1 Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman, robed with the sun, standing on the moon, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. 2 She was pregnant, and in labour, crying aloud in the pangs of childbirth. 3 Then a second sign appeared in the sky: there was a huge red dragon with seven heads...

www.catholic.org

"God has not only set an enmity but enmities, not simply between Mary and the devil, but between the race of the holy Virgin and the race of the devil; that is to say, God has set enmities, antipathies, and secret hatreds between the true children and the servants Mary, and the children and servants of the devil."
-St Louis de Monfort, True Devotion to Mary, pg 40

 

[Benadam]

I think when the final persecution happens the faithful will have been becoming increasingly sanctified. This will have been the Church’s greatest witness. This witness is the sword that comes out of Christ 's mouth. That’s my take on it.

 

[normdplume]

I’m not interested in a dispensationalist interpretation, Augustinian. My questions related to my Catholic study guide. It’s largely consistent with other Catholic sources I’ve read, but isn’t clear regarding how to interpret the destruction of the Antichrist’s armies by the sword from Jesus’s mouth. I’ve since found another source that basically confirmed that He did it solely with His Word. His army of angels and saints was not involved, but were with Him when he returned to earth.

 

[SuperLuigi]

To quote a monk “in the end evil will be frustrated and turned into nothing”.

It defeats itself mostly.

 

[tafan2]

Wait. Is it just Jesus who is doing the destroying? Or do His armies destroy evil with Him? I mean, do we get to participate… or just watch?

We should pray that our faith survives the great tribulation so that we will be on Christ’s side.

 

[ConsistantlyBaffled]

In my head canon, a BFG 9000 is involved. I’ll leave now.

 

[Benadam]

With more detail of my view for the OP.

I believe Christ allows the Church to defeat the armies of the world.

In the final persecution of the Church the faithful will in their suffering increase in sanctity and witness to Christ. Just as a singular grace of a martyr a universal grace for the Faithful Church. This suffering brings in time an eternal state of rejection signaled by the last of the Gentiles to convert to Christ. When that happens the only people persecuting the Church are the damned and the Jews . The lawless and the Jews who are under the Law. With the Law comes the power of sin. Sin is the power of death and as Paul say’s it’'s the last power to be defeated. So the Jews either recognize Christ in the Church as their only child they have struck and mourn for. Or the Church becomes spotless and Christ comes to be her husband and then they recognize Him and the Church as their only child they have been persecuting and so mourn and enter into salvation .And as St Paul said the twinkle of an eye event happens.

So the sword in my view is the Word of God as it is universally expressed in it’s entirety on earth by the Church and the faithful, especially in redemptive suffering, and as it comes out singularly directly from the mouth of Christ when The Son Incarnated and perhaps when He comes to take His Spotless Bride.

It’s something to note that St Paul said the Lawless One will be destroyed by the ‘breath’ of Christ. Which to me means the Holy Spirit. But the Jews may need His Personal attention.

Edit to add: I think it’s possible that the Jews recognize the eternal state of the damned and so recognize that the Church is suffering at their hands for them. That the Church endures for their sake and only them, and that turns their hardened hearts to flesh so to speak and they recognize the Church as their only child.

 

[normdplume]

Thank you for a very thoughtful reply, Benadam. I may be misinterpreting your answer, in which case I apologize in advance. There seem to be some timeline issues in your interpretation.

In Revelation, the Lawless One appears after the Jews (and Gentiles) have converted to Christianity. Only then is the Antichrist revealed. He begins by killing the Two Witnesses. The identity of the Two Witnesses varies depending on which Catholic study guide you follow. One says it’s the Church, so this is when the Great Tribulation begins. Catholics will be heavily persecuted, almost to the point of extinction. That’s when Jesus returns in the flesh.

My reading of Revelation is that the end times will involve a lot of violence and destruction (according to multiple study guides I’m using). As such, I think there will be a real final confrontation, although the angels and the saints that accompany Christ to Earth will not need to do battle. His sword, which is consistently interpreted as his Holy Word, is what physically destroys the armies of the Antichrist.

Nevertheless, I like your interpretation. It is consistent with one of the overall themes of Revelation, which is that the Church only engages in spiritual battle, never physical ones, in spite of her suffering.

Thanks again for your response.

 

[Benadam]

In Revelation, the Lawless One appears after the Jews (and Gentiles) have converted to Christianity.

Hiya normdplume, I guess I’m not understanding what the anti-christ would be trying to do if he appeared after the Jews enter into Christ’s salvation. Read in the catechism below that the world is reconciled by their rejection. The ‘world’. Their acceptance means the resurrection of the dead. What are your sources?

from the catechism

69 St. Paul echoes him: "For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead?"570 The “full inclusion” of the Jews in the Messiah’s salvation, in the wake of “the full number of the Gentiles”,571 will enable the People of God to achieve “the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ”, in which “God may be all in all”.572

He begins by killing the Two Witnesses.

See, if the rejection of the Jews means reconciliation of the world, that means it doesn’t happen until the “full number of the Gentiles” receive the faith. That being the Catholic teaching , who are the two witnesses witnessing to if the world is already reconciled and after the " full inclusion of the Jews"?

 

[Hereiam]

My study guide doesn’t address that point.

Study guides can only do so much. They are, by and large, superficial.

If you really want to come to an understanding, use scripture as a source of Lectio Divina and listen for God to reveal the truth and meaning of the Word to you.

 

[normdplume]

Following is a summary from Revelation (too many verses to quote here): The Two Witnesses are the ones who help bring in the fullness of the Gentiles and the Jews. Many Christians believe the Two Witnesses are either Moses and Elijah or Enoch and Elijah. They will have great power to turn water into blood, cause droughts, and bring plagues. The Antichrist is then revealed. He begins by killing the Two Witnesses, leaving them lying dead in the streets for three and a half days (a figurative amount of time) before God breathes life back into them and lifts them up to heaven. The Antichrist then initiates the Great Tribulation, the Church’s final trial on earth. He will persecute the Church, killing many Christians, almost to the point of extinction. The Antichrist’s ally, the False Prophet, participates in this persecution, forcing people to worship the Antichrist or die. The Antichrist will proclaim himself to be the real Messiah. Soon after this, Jesus returns. The Antichrist and the False Prophet are thrown into the lake of fire. Jesus destroys the Antichrist’s armies with a sword coming out of his mouth (i.e., the Word of God).

 

[normdplume]

The study guides I’m using are invaluable to understanding Revelation. Theologians have argued for two millennia about the meanings behind the visions in Revelation. If they can’t figure it out, I wouldn’t be able to come close simply by reading scripture. There are a few minor areas where the study guides are unclear, hence my original question in this post.

I’ve since found other sources that confirm that Jesus does indeed single-handedly destroy the armies of the Antichrist with the sword coming out of his mouth (i.e., his Word).

 

[Hereiam]

If they can’t figure it out, I wouldn’t be able to come close simply by reading scripture

You are putting far too much faith in man and not enough in God, because you dont understand the ancient Church practice of Lectio Divina…which far more than simply “reading” scripture.

 

[Benadam]

Revelation, the Lawless One appears after the Jews (and Gentiles) have converted to Christianity. Only then is the Antichrist revealed. He begi

I understand the issue. Your statement above doesn’t agree with your study guide as you posted.

 

[Benadam]

The Two Witnesses are the ones who help bring in the fullness of the Gentiles and the Jews. Many Christians believe the Two Witnesses are either Moses and Elijah or Enoch and Elijah.

I can certainly see that The Law and the Prophets personified in the state of transfigured glory would bring in the Jews in the wake of the Gentiles. I also see that transfigured state of Glory being the Church as the Spotless Bride. The Church Militant and Suffering become Triumphant on earth. The persecution would end once the Jews recognize Jesus as their Messiah. Once that comes about suffering would no longer redeem anyone. If the Gentiles and Jews are converted who is left for the antichrist to convince he is god? What reason is there to deceive the nations? That is the point beyond time that the dead are resurrected and judged.

 

[normdplume]

Revelation says that the Antichrist kills the Two Witnesses after their testimony is complete, which brought in the fullness of the Gentiles and the conversion of the Jews. It is then that the Antichrist and False Prophet begin persecuting the Church, almost to extinction, which is the Great Tribulation. The Antichrist declares himself to be the Messiah and takes his seat in the temple of God. Catholic belief allows for the rebuilding of the temple of Jerusalem as the Antichrist’s seat, or the temple could be a symbolic reference to the Church. This is also the time when Satan is released from the Abyss to gather his armies from around the world.

I personally believe the Great Tribulation is a test of Christians to separate out the truly faithful from those who have converted but love their lives more than they do God. I can’t think of any other reason why God would allow the Unholy Trinity a brief period at the end of history to persecute a world that has largely converted to Christianity thanks to the Two Witnesses.

 

[mythbuster1]

Taken literally, Revelation 13 says that none of the followers of the Antichrist will repent.

 

[mythbuster1]

“largely converted to Christianity” is an awfully big assumption in light of the fact that people celebrate when the Two Witnesses die. Furthermore, fire from Heaven consumes everyone who would harm them before the Antichrist kills them. Given the fact that the wicked hate them because of the plagues they unleash during their ministry, and the fact that the Antichrist manages to kill them when everyone else who sought to do so was incinerated, it’s not surprising that the wicked would worship the Antichrist as a god.