How does "no" count as "received"?

[Bohm_Bawerk]

The Bible has many references which suggest that whatever we ask to the Lord our God, we shall receive. Yet the phenomenon of unanswered prayers is quite common - in fact, there are more unanswered prayers than answered ones. I’ve heard many CAF users here state that sometimes the answer is “no”. But how exactly does “no” count as “received”? “Yes” and “Maybe not now” sound plausible, but I can’t understand why these answers are a lot rarer than “no”, and how “no” counts as “received”? The only way that I can see “no” as ever counting as “received” is if there was a voice from the Heavens or some other-worldly phenomena clearly stating “no”.

Please help, and please pray for those currently suffering from incurable diseases,

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

 

[TheQuestioner]

In that “no” you learn to accept God’s will, not your own, and so receive. Thus you receive humility.

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

In that “no” you learn to accept God’s will, not your own, and so receive. Thus you receive humility.

Most people will read “received” in a completely different light: As receiving something that you’ve petitioned for. Mr. X never petitioned for humility. He petitioned for something else. I even recall a passage where Jesus states that “Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone?” (Matthew 7:9). That being the case, if one asks God for something, how can they receive something that is totally irrelevant to their concerns?

The way I’m beginning to interpret the “Ask, and you shall receive” passage is that it’s tantamount to those adverts with the smallprint. “Oh, you’ll only receive if you accept God’s will”. I think it was just a way to win converts. I can’t see where Jesus states that we must ask in accordance to His will. All He says is that whatever we ask, we’ll receive. If we all asked in accordance to God’s will, then technically, none of us would be using the internet, would we? We would all pretty much be living in monasteries being the epitome of humbleness. But God made us with flesh and bone, and we do have worldly matters that are of importance to us as individuals. The phenomenon of unanswered prayers is more common than many people think; I find it difficult to believe that these people aren’t getting their prayers answered because they’re asking for something ridiculous like winning the lottery, or something.

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

 

[TheQuestioner]

Most people will read “received” in a completely different light: As receiving something that you’ve petitioned for. Mr. X never petitioned for humility. He petitioned for something else. I even recall a passage where Jesus states that “Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone?” (Matthew 7:9). That being the case, if one asks God for something, how can they receive something that is totally irrelevant to their concerns?

The way I’m beginning to interpret the “Ask, and you shall receive” passage is that it’s tantamount to those adverts with the smallprint. “Oh, you’ll only receive if you accept God’s will”. I think it was just a way to win converts. I can’t see where Jesus states that we must ask in accordance to His will. All He says is that whatever we ask, we’ll receive. If we all asked in accordance to God’s will, then technically, none of us would be using the internet, would we? We would all pretty much be living in monasteries being the epitome of humbleness. But God made us with flesh and bone, and we do have worldly matters that are of importance to us as individuals. The phenomenon of unanswered prayers is more common than many people think; I find it difficult to believe that these people aren’t getting their prayers answered because they’re asking for something ridiculous like winning the lottery, or something.

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

God’s ways are higher than our ways, and His understanding above us. That “small print” you are speaking about is no secret. Christians don’t go about telling converts if they ask God for anything He will rain down food from the sky. We tell them He will give you what you need, not what you want.

But more so, I think what Jesus meant more of was the grace to persevere in faith, hope and love. If you ask for this you will receive. God will not abandon us in grace because we will always need it. We may not however, always need food, water or clothes.

As for those who have terminal illnesses, it is important to realize, though it might be hard to, that death is not something that happens to us. It is something we do. Humans die. God will not provide you with life here on earth forever. Because you see, that is what we want, but it is not what we need. Heaven is what we need, and God gives it to us, but in order to have it, we must die (as Christ died) and rise with Christ into heaven.

Remember in the garden, Christ said “Lord if it is possible take this cup away from me, your will, not mine”. This is at the heart of humility. God’s will, not ours. Christ Himself accepted the will of God and trusted Him. We are called to do the same.

So we say, “God give me the grace to love you”, for this is what we need, and He will not refuse us.

 

[Trishie]

I’ve heard many CAF users here state that sometimes the answer is “no”. But how exactly does “no” count as “received”? “Yes” and “Maybe not now” sound plausible, but I can’t understand why these answers are a lot rarer than “no”, and how “no” counts as “received”? The only way that I can see “no” as ever counting as “received” is if there was a voice from the Heavens or some other-worldly phenomena clearly stating “no”.

Please help, and please pray for those currently suffering from incurable diseases,

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

If I say don’t give my child something he asks for because for whatever reason it isn’t appropriate, he definitely has received an answer.

And no we’re not always cured on illnesses etc. If we received all the healing we ask for, and people will ask for healing even for someone as old as 97 as occurred recently, but if God answered all those prayers with healing, some of us would still be asking to be healed again in 200 years.

The particular purpose of my life or yours, and the particular need for contribution to others, or the life lessons you or I need to learn, or the particular virtues we may need to develop, are not always served by getting the physical healing we’re asking for…or the answers we so urgently desire.

This world isn’t an end in itself and our temptation as humans in a material world is to consider it as a permanent home where everything should be as we wish, no struggle, no poverty, no illness…but this isn’t what this life is about. It’s about living lives of practical kindness in whatever circumstances we live. If we are severely handicapped by illness or poverty, we may only be able to give smiles instead of scowls, cheerfulness rather than gloom, a polite and kindly reply instead of an angry one.

Sometimes people are healed through prayer, sometimes by receiving the healing graces of acceptance and peace and kindness, and occasionally physical healing. I have my own batch of illnesses, but I manage them as best I can. They aren’t my focus, they are a fact of life in a physical world, with practical causes. My focus is whatever little ways I can channel the love of God to others, to my family, to others around, to people who come to this website asking for prayers. That’s my particular calling it seems. And I think that in the reality of our own circumstances we do have a vocation.

 

[JRKH]

The Bible has many references which suggest that whatever we ask to the Lord our God, we shall receive. Yet the phenomenon of unanswered prayers is quite common - in fact, there are more unanswered prayers than answered ones. I’ve heard many CAF users here state that sometimes the answer is “no”. But how exactly does “no” count as “received”? “Yes” and “Maybe not now” sound plausible, but I can’t understand why these answers are a lot rarer than “no”, and how “no” counts as “received”? The only way that I can see “no” as ever counting as “received” is if there was a voice from the Heavens or some other-worldly phenomena clearly stating “no”.

Please help, and please pray for those currently suffering from incurable diseases,

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

As always Eugen you ask another difficult and thought provoking Question. Thank you.

You’ve received some fairly good and fairly common answers to the question but it seems they have not really gotten to the core of the problem for you. I can relate to this problem and to the question in general, having asked the same thing myself. Let me see if I can provide any helpful insight…

There is an interaction between where we are spiritually and what we ask for that has a bearing. By that I mean, asking in the name of Jesus is not a magic word that automatically opens God’s hand to anyone speaking it. In Mt 18: 19-20 Jesus speaks of people gathered in His name and asking. So what does it mean to be gathered “in His Name”? It requires complete belief, faith and commitment - a “putting on of Christ” - to truly pray in Jesus name. This is something that many, even most people are not willing to do. They will have faith and belief, but it is the commitment that we so often lack.
The second part of the interaction deals with what we ask for and relates to the first in this way. If we have “put on Christ”, that is conform ourselvesm, our wills, to Him we will only ask for those things in accordance with that will. Our will and desires will conform to His and thus when we ask for what “we” want it is the same thing as what God wants.
And when we receive a response, even if the response is negative, we understand that this is God’s will for us, or for whoever we are praying for.
Keep in mind that in the Garden of Gethsemanee, Christ prayed for The Father to let the cup of His passion pass Him by, The answer was “no”…Christ also knew He must submit to the Will of the Father and added to the prayer, “not as I will, but as thou wilt.”

As a crude illustration of what I am talking about, consider the surgeon. This person first commits himself to a field of study - Surgery. Then he spends years learning, integrating, sacrificing, living, breathing, sleeping these studies. Then he enters the operating room and begins. Once there and seeing the task before him and knowing the desired outcome, he begins asking for things from the nurse assisting.
But because of his/her training he/she only asks for things that are appropriate to the task. This is because, as a surgeon, his “will” is aligned with that of “surgery” and he would not think of asking for something inappropriate - and if He did ask for something inapropriate, the nurse would refuse to give it to him.

In the Gospels Jesus was not talking to the world at large when he said whatever you ask in my name…he was speaking to His disciples. Those who had committed themselves to studying at His feet. Those seeking diligently to conform themselves to the Will of God.

I hope some of this is helpful

Peace
James

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

If I say don’t give my child something he asks for because for whatever reason it isn’t appropriate, he definitely has received an answer.

I knew someone was going to use that analogy. Indeed, I was trying to justify what Jesus meant before asking this question. The problem with this however is that unlike the child and parent, both of whom are visible, God is invisible to us. When our prayers are “no”, we really do not have a way of discerning that it was no until the time for the intention has come to pass. God does not shout “no” from the Heavens when He decides to go against the prayer intention. Nor does God give us any “feeling”. All that is left is confusion when our prayers seem to go unanswered.

Sometimes people are healed through prayer, sometimes by receiving the healing graces of acceptance and peace and kindness, and occasionally physical healing. I have my own batch of illnesses, but I manage them as best I can.

I sincerely hope you get better from whatever is that is troubling you. If not from God, then at least through scientific advancements that are being made and will be made . I’m going through a very huge downturn right now - thankfully not health-related. I am very worried because if even this thing that has worried me and is worrying me can bring me down, I fear what would happen to me should anything health-related occur. God forbid that it does.

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

As always Eugen you ask another difficult and thought provoking Question. Thank you.

You’ve received some fairly good and fairly common answers to the question but it seems they have not really gotten to the core of the problem for you. I can relate to this problem and to the question in general, having asked the same thing myself. Let me see if I can provide any helpful insight…

There is an interaction between where we are spiritually and what we ask for that has a bearing. By that I mean, asking in the name of Jesus is not a magic word that automatically opens God’s hand to anyone speaking it. In Mt 18: 19-20 Jesus speaks of people gathered in His name and asking. So what does it mean to be gathered “in His Name”? It requires complete belief, faith and commitment - a “putting on of Christ” - to truly pray in Jesus name. This is something that many, even most people are not willing to do. They will have faith and belief, but it is the commitment that we so often lack.
The second part of the interaction deals with what we ask for and relates to the first in this way. If we have “put on Christ”, that is conform ourselvesm, our wills, to Him we will only ask for those things in accordance with that will. Our will and desires will conform to His and thus when we ask for what “we” want it is the same thing as what God wants.
And when we receive a response, even if the response is negative, we understand that this is God’s will for us, or for whoever we are praying for.
Keep in mind that in the Garden of Gethsemanee, Christ prayed for The Father to let the cup of His passion pass Him by, The answer was “no”…Christ also knew He must submit to the Will of the Father and added to the prayer, “not as I will, but as thou wilt.”

As a crude illustration of what I am talking about, consider the surgeon. This person first commits himself to a field of study - Surgery. Then he spends years learning, integrating, sacrificing, living, breathing, sleeping these studies. Then he enters the operating room and begins. Once there and seeing the task before him and knowing the desired outcome, he begins asking for things from the nurse assisting.
But because of his/her training he/she only asks for things that are appropriate to the task. This is because, as a surgeon, his “will” is aligned with that of “surgery” and he would not think of asking for something inappropriate - and if He did ask for something inapropriate, the nurse would refuse to give it to him.

In the Gospels Jesus was not talking to the world at large when he said whatever you ask in my name…he was speaking to His disciples. Those who had committed themselves to studying at His feet. Those seeking diligently to conform themselves to the Will of God.

I hope some of this is helpful

Peace
James

Ok. . .this seems acceptable so far. . .

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

 

[JRKH]

Ok. . .this seems acceptable so far. . .

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

These things are both simple and complex and they can be very hard to explain. I’m glad you were able to gain some insight from my ramblings.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

I knew someone was going to use that analogy. Indeed, I was trying to justify what Jesus meant before asking this question. The problem with this however is that unlike the child and parent, both of whom are visible, God is invisible to us. When our prayers are “no”, we really do not have a way of discerning that it was no until the time for the intention has come to pass. God does not shout “no” from the Heavens when He decides to go against the prayer intention. Nor does God give us any “feeling”. All that is left is confusion when our prayers seem to go unanswered.

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

You are right. This is yet another difficult question. When God is invisible how do we know if we’ve been heard and what the answer is.
The answer to this lies, once again, in how close we are to God - how closely we have aligned our will with His. How quiet we are in spirit so that we may “hear”, that is discern", the answer. And remember to that the answer may not be a direct yes or no.
The answer may be an intimation that God wants you to do something. It may be a request that you examine your life or your conscience. To use the parent child example let’s look at the following:
Child, “Mom can I go to Becky’s house”.
Parent, “Have you cleaned your room and done your homework like I asked you?”
Child, “Well - not completely…errr…no”
Parent, "Then you can’t go to Becky’s.
First we have a prayer - a request. from the child (us)
Second the parent (God) answers with a request that the child (us) examine how well we’ve obeyed Him
Third the initial prayer is answered based on how well we’ve done what is required of us.

Of course the above is overly simplified, but I would ask you to take a look at the Bible and see how many times, after healing someone, Christ said some variation of “Your faith has healed you”. God can do wonderous things. Yet it is through our faith, our belief, our trust, and our willingness to listen and accept that God can truly work in our lives.

Peace
James

 

[puzzleannie]

The Bible has many references which suggest that whatever we ask to the Lord our God, we shall receive. Y
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

actually the bible says God will give us every good thing we ask for, and it is he, not ourselves, who judges what is good and necessary for us at any given time. The bible does not say God is obliged to meet our non-negotiable demands.

 

[MagsM]

As a crude illustration of what I am talking about, consider the surgeon. This person first commits himself to a field of study - Surgery. Then he spends years learning, integrating, sacrificing, living, breathing, sleeping these studies. Then he enters the operating room and begins. Once there and seeing the task before him and knowing the desired outcome, he begins asking for things from the nurse assisting.
But because of his/her training he/she only asks for things that are appropriate to the task. This is because, as a surgeon, his “will” is aligned with that of “surgery” and he would not think of asking for something inappropriate - and if He did ask for something inappropriate, the nurse would refuse to give it to him.

In the Gospels Jesus was not talking to the world at large when he said whatever you ask in my name…he was speaking to His disciples. Those who had committed themselves to studying at His feet. Those seeking diligently to conform themselves to the Will of God.

I hope some of this is helpful

James

Well done James! :clapping: I might just quote you on this one every now and then