How does one answer this question?

[jenniferpet88]

How does one answer someone who says YES there is only one church and it IS the body of christ…but the body of christ means all believers who follow him because there are people in the catholic church who are not following christ and there are people outside the church who are…as far as i can tell this is also in line with catholic teaching and that even protestants though imperfectly joined are still part of christ’s body somehow…so how does one prove that the VISIBLE catholic church is indeed the ONE CHURCH…the visible proof offered in scripture isn’t enough to make someone convert because it relies heavily on interpretation…PLEASE HELP!!!

 

[chief714]

How does one answer someone who says YES there is only one church and it IS the body of christ…but the body of christ means all believers who follow him because there are people in the catholic church who are not following christ and there are people outside the church who are…as far as i can tell this is also in line with catholic teaching and that even protestants though imperfectly joined are still part of christ’s body somehow…so how does one prove that the VISIBLE catholic church is indeed the ONE CHURCH

They’re going to have to go on a search thru the history of the origins of the Church to understand that what we have in the Catholic Church is essentially what the Apostles and the Early Church Fathers gave us almost to the T. However, they’re going to have to look at things with openness and an open ear and not an Anti-Catholic outlook. Most Protestents (I was one of them) look at the Catholic Church as the Anti-Christ because that’s essentially what they’ve been taught all of they’re lives.

…the visible proof offered in scripture isn’t enough to make someone convert because it relies heavily on interpretation…PLEASE HELP!!!

I always go back to that reading in the New Testament when Jesus clearly states “Do this in memory of me” speaking of communion. I always just ran past it and avoided. After my conversion I never could figure out how I missed such a plain and simple command.
Now, as I look around, I point out that Protestants have well over “40,000 different denominations” please… read that # again…
Looking at the Catholic Church and how many “Billions” of people are Catholic… We have the Largest Christian Religion in the WORLD. kind of runs with Jesus’ quote “Upon this rock I will build my chruch. Even the gates of hell will not prevail against it”.

Of course… I feel like I’m just rambling and haven’t given any solid answer.But… I’m still new to Catholicism and trying to learn as much as I can cuz I missed a lot for like 31 years…

Hope something in here helped…

 

[Joe_5859]

I’ve always thought that it would be a mean trick on Jesus’ part if he said, “You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. But, oh, it will be an invisible Church and no one will ever really be certain as to where exactly this invisible Church resides or who exactly belongs to it. Just have them give it their best guess and hope for the best.”

 

[catholic1seeks]

How does one answer someone who says YES there is only one church and it IS the body of christ…but the body of christ means all believers who follow him because there are people in the catholic church who are not following christ and there are people outside the church who are…as far as i can tell this is also in line with catholic teaching and that even protestants though imperfectly joined are still part of christ’s body somehow…so how does one prove that the VISIBLE catholic church is indeed the ONE CHURCH…the visible proof offered in scripture isn’t enough to make someone convert because it relies heavily on interpretation…PLEASE HELP!!!

Well, it is true that all of those who are in the state of grace belong to Christ’s Mystical Body, whether they are Catholic or not. However, Christ set up a visible church in order that there would be a “pillar of truth” (1 Tim 3:15).

Go through Matthew 16, where Jesus talks about building the Church on Peter and giving him the keys. And go to Matthew 18, where Jesus gives his Apostles the power to bind and loose. This auhtority definitely emphasizes a visible church. What does it mean for the apostes to be able to bind and loose if there is only an invisible church? Jesus also says in Matthew 18 that if an offense happens between a person and a neighbor, ultimately the church decides the verdict. Remember, those who believe in a purely spiritual church de-emphasize the clergy and exact organizational structure, as if hiearchy didn’t matter. But these passages show that, yes, Christ gave certain powers to some followers, not others. Highlight those passages that show Christ giving his Apostles the special powers of, for example, celebrating the Lord’s Supper and forgiving sin.

Point to the historical record. The fact that the Apostles had successors is evident in Ignatius of Antioch’s writings, as well as Clement (who was the successor of Peter), and the Didache—all of these writings were withing the first two centuries of the Church. The early Church considered the bishops as true successors to the apostles; the faithful believed that authentic doctrine was found where legitimate bishops resided. They could forgive sin (John 20:21-23); they ordained priests. The early church held councils. The early Church was Catholic in belief and organization.

Search “Church” here on Catholic Answers, on the homepage. You will find some helpful info.

 

[Trebor135]

How does one answer someone who says YES there is only one church and it IS the body of christ…but the body of christ means all believers who follow him because there are people in the catholic church who are not following christ and there are people outside the church who are…as far as i can tell this is also in line with catholic teaching and that even protestants though imperfectly joined are still part of christ’s body somehow…so how does one prove that the VISIBLE catholic church is indeed the ONE CHURCH…the visible proof offered in scripture isn’t enough to make someone convert because it relies heavily on interpretation…PLEASE HELP!!!

Apologist Dave Armstrong has written a very handy book, “One-Minute Apologist”, to help interested readers respond to this kind of question on the spot. From pages 18-19:

A COMMON PROTESTANT CLAIM ABOUT
THE CHURCH

The Church is the invisible
sum total of all true believers

The notion that the “one true Church”
must be a visible institution is a false tradition of men.

THE ONE-MINUTE APOLOGIST SAYS:
The Bible teaches us tat the Church is a visible, identifiable
institution with a verifiable history of unchanging apostolic teaching.

It is true that Catholics believe in an “invisible” Church in one sense: namely, the Mystical Body of Christ. We hold that all Christians who have been baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are part of the Church in that sense, however imperfectly. But from this it doesn’t follow that there cannot also be a visible, institutional body of believers whose members can be said properly to belong to Christ’s True Church. When Jesus and Scripture speak of the Church, it is usually in terms that suggest a tangible, specific, active presence in the world and in the community of believers:

Matthew 5:14-16: “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hid. Nor do men light a lamp and put it under a bushel, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.”

Matthew 18:15-17: “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.”

1 Timothy 3:15: “[T]he household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.” 1

Some Christians seem to think that the Apostle Paul was a kind of “lone ranger,” not part of any Church but single-handedly (or with the help of a few friends) preaching and spreading the gospel. The Bible, on the other hand, recounts how Paul was subject to the direction and sanction of the institutional Church. He, too (even though he was an apostle, who wrote much of the New Testament), was under authority:

Acts 13:1–4: “Now in the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers, Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyre’ne, Man’a-en a member of the court of Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, ‘Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.’ Then after fasting and praying they laid their hands on them and sent them off. So, being sent out by the Holy Spirit, they went down to Seleu’cia; and from there they sailed to Cyprus.” 2

Galatians 1:18–19: “Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas, and remained with him fifteen days. But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord’s brother.”

In fact, Paul believed that his apostolic work stemmed directly from the authoritative commission he received from the hierarchy.

Galatians 2:9: “[A]nd when they perceived the grace that was given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.”

A PROTESTANT MIGHT FURTHER OBJECT:
But the words of Jesus Himself suggest that the Church is first and foremost invisible, not bound by denominational structures. For example, doesn’t His analogy of the sheep and the shepherd, 3 who know each other, show that the Church is a mystical, invisible body consisting of the elect and truly saved only?

THE ONE-MINUTE APOLOGIST SAYS:
No, because Scripture also describes the unsaved reprobate as “sheep,” 4 refers to sheep that have “gone astray,” 5 and applies the description to the nation of Israel, 6 and, indeed, all men.7 The overall biblical theme concerning “sheep” refers to the sense that all men, and particularly Israel, are God’s children. But this doesn’t preclude the existence of a visible, institutional Church—especially since the latter is clearly indicated in the Bible.

FOOTNOTES:
1 cf. Matt.16:18 2 cf. Acts 14:26-28 3 Jn.10:1–16; cf. 2 Tim.2:19; 1 Jn.2:19
4 Ps.74:1 5 Ps.119:176 6 Ezek.34:2–3, 13, 23, 30 7 Isa.53:6

 

[Erich]

This Bible Christian Society newsletter makes some good points. In summary:

Consider 1 Cor 11:18-19: “*In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it. No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God’s approval.”

*So, there were divisions among the Corinthian congregation. And, these divisions were such that they helped to reveal who had God’s approval. Which means, on the flip side, that there were those among the Corinthian congregation who did not have God’s approval.

Believers in an “invisible church of true believers” tend to also be believers in the notion that there are “essential” and “non-essential” doctrines and as long as we agree on the “essentials,” then we can have union with one another and we’re all saved. Problem is, who gets to decide what is an essential and what is a non-essential doctrine? And, since doctrines come from the Word of God, which part of the Word of God does one actually dare to call “non-essential?”

The notion that that we can be in union with those we have doctrinal disagreements with…that there can be true unity among those with doctrinal differences…those with different versions of what is and is not truth… is a false notion. 1 Cor 11:18-19 shows that divisions among Christians - the Corinthians being written to by Paul were all members of the Church… they were all Christians - cannot simply be ignored by using a contrived theological system which divides doctrines into essential vs. non-essential. Differences among Christians are serious matters that lead to some being approved by God and some not being approved by God.

Did the Apostles teach different doctrines to different people? The answer, of course, is “No.” The Apostles all taught the same doctrines…ALL the same doctrines. After all, Jesus tells us that the Holy Spirit was to guide them into all truth. If they are guided into all truth, then they cannot help but teach identical doctrines…they cannot help but teach the same truths…to all the different peoples they came across. Again, from 1 Cor 11:18-19, it is obvious that there were those among the Corinthians who believed different doctrines. Who taught them these different doctrines, the Apostles? I don’t think so.

Well, if the Apostles didn’t teach different doctrines, then why is it okay for the pastors of today’s thousands upon thousands of Protestant denominations to teach different doctrines one from another? And, if it wasn’t okay for the Corinthians to hold to different beliefs…beliefs that caused division within the Christian congregation…then why is it okay today for Protestants to hold to different beliefs…beliefs that cause division within Christianity?

 

[Trebor135]

Well, it is true that all of those who are in the state of grace belong to Christ’s Mystical Body, whether they are Catholic or not. However, Christ set up a visible church in order that there would be a “pillar of truth” (1 Tim 3:15).

Go through Matthew 16, where Jesus talks about building the Church on Peter and giving him the keys. And go to Matthew 18, where Jesus gives his Apostles the power to bind and loose. This auhtority definitely emphasizes a visible church. What does it mean for the apostes to be able to bind and loose if there is only an invisible church? Jesus also says in Matthew 18 that if an offense happens between a person and a neighbor, ultimately the church decides the verdict. Remember, those who believe in a purely spiritual church de-emphasize the clergy and exact organizational structure, as if hiearchy didn’t matter. But these passages show that, yes, Christ gave certain powers to some followers, not others. Highlight those passages that show Christ giving his Apostles the special powers of, for example, celebrating the Lord’s Supper and forgiving sin.

This part of your post is especially helpful for talking to Bible-only (solo scriptura) evangelicals.

I would add the following set of questions to get the wheels turning:

1. While on earth, Jesus was both fully divine and human, yes or no?

Yes.

1. While on earth, he had a visible head, yes or no?

Yes.

1. And a visible body too, yes or no?

Yes.

1. When Jesus ascended into heaven, he had his (then-glorified) physical body, yes or no?

Yes.

1. And he still has that physical body in heaven to this day, yes or no?

Yes.

1. Scripture describes Jesus as the “head” of the church (Ephesians 5:23, Colossians 1:18), yes or no?

Yes.

1. Therefore, does it make sense to have a physical head but (only) a spiritual body, yes or no?

No.

 

[Jim_Roberts]

How does one answer someone who says YES there is only one church and it IS the body of christ…but the body of christ means all believers who follow him because there are people in the catholic church who are not following christ and there are people outside the church who are…as far as i can tell this is also in line with catholic teaching and that even protestants though imperfectly joined are still part of christ’s body somehow…so how does one prove that the VISIBLE catholic church is indeed the ONE CHURCH…the visible proof offered in scripture isn’t enough to make someone convert because it relies heavily on interpretation…PLEASE HELP!!!

---

The Catholic Church was founded by CHrist and therefore we have that right to say it is the only true CHurch.

Who founded the Baptist CHurch?

Who founded the Pentecostal CHurch?

JESUS I TRUST IN YOU

 

[jenniferpet88]

great replies and they are more than enough to convince me and strengthen my faith but hopefully they will work for him, he is not a protestant he is nondenominational and pretty much makes it up as he goes along claiming that a “feeling” is directing him, he agrees with the doctrines in the church but something doesn’t “feel right” and “something is wrong but he can’t put his finger on it” ( i know stupid and paranoid ) now if you guys have even more evidence please let me have it the more the merrier and if any protestants want to try to refute the arguments given that would make it even better, i am trying to find that “magic bullet” so to speak