How does one become a member of a "third order" or an "oblate"

[SLCFranciscan]

Please be very careful in evaluating potential third orders. Many years ago I became a Secular Franciscan, which I have loved. However, recently our order has been going through difficult times. At our 5-year meeting in July of this year, the keynote speaker is slated to be an Episcopalian priest who is a very vocal supporter of “gay marriage”. This has caused great upheaval in our local fraternity order, as we are very orthodox and want to follow the Magisterium. Please ask any order you may be interested in if they are committed to supporting the Holy Father and the teaching Magisterium of the church. Then check out their background and reputation. We are all praying that the National organization will come to its senses and invite someone more appropriate. As it is, we have voted as a fraternity to boycott the event. This is a heartbreaking situation. Just a word to the wise.

 

[Frodo_Lion]

I am a Lay Dominican. I’m not sure how it’s done in the other Orders, but we (the Dominican Laity) do NOT make vows–we make “promises”.
–Barbara, OPL

What’s the difference between “vows” and “promises”?
Do you have to do anything, like the Hours on pain of sin?

 

[barbfromtucson]

What’s the difference between “vows” and “promises”?
Do you have to do anything, like the Hours on pain of sin?

Vows are more ‘binding’ than promises. If we break one of our promises, it does not constitute as being a “mortal sin” or anything like that.

I have never heard of “the Hours on pain of sin” so I’m not sure what you’re talking about.

You can check out domlife.org/BeingDominican/WhoWeAre/Laity.htm

for more information!

–Barbara

 

[SLCFranciscan]

I am a professed Third Order Franciscan. I do have a habit and a religious name and title. I spent more than 6 years in formation. I was most fortunate becuase for a time, isolated members were allowed and that is what I am. So I do not get to wear my habit as I have no meetings to attend but I will be buried in it!

I go to my home friary every year or every other for a retreat. There is perpetual adoration there and it is a wonderful holy place.

To become a member of a Third Order, one needs to determine the charism they are drawn to. Some secular orders are lax. I looked at some local Franciscans whose big endeavor was cleaning a lake. I needed a rule of life that was challenging and strict! And Our Lady led me to one–thanks be to her and to God.

So one might not just be a Benedictine because that was the only monestary close–you would need to be drawn to the charism.

Good luck! PRAY! God will place you, do not worry.
Ave Maria!

May I ask what Third Order you are in? The Secular Franciscan Order (which I am contemplating leaving because they have embraced liberalism so thoughly that I cannot in conscience stay). The SFO’s have a burial shroud (which is, by the rules, not to be called a habit or to be worn at all except to the grave). I was not aware of any Third Order that was allowed to wear a habit. Can you please inform me which Third Order you are in? God bless!

 

[Marauder]

May I ask what Third Order you are in? The Secular Franciscan Order (which I am contemplating leaving because they have embraced liberalism so thoughly that I cannot in conscience stay). The SFO’s have a burial shroud (which is, by the rules, not to be called a habit or to be worn at all except to the grave). I was not aware of any Third Order that was allowed to wear a habit. Can you please inform me which Third Order you are in? God bless!

This information is interesting because I have been feeling called to the Franciscans and as a married person with a young child I felt SFO was probably the best fit. I have just entered the inquiry period. I am also pretty conservative.

I haven’t yet seen the liberalism that you speak of in my fraternity (it meets at a Franciscan monastary) and I have been attending meetings since June.

My question is, instead of quitting and going againt your promises shouldn’t you be working as St. Francis said to “rebuild the church.” I have heard that many liberal Franciscans tend to also use the rebuild the church line but always forget that St. Francis did it always with the permission of the local Bishop and/or the Pope. He didn’t go against the magisterium in beliefs and actions. Things like that about St. Francis is what attracted me to the Franciscans in the first place.

Believe me, I am not attacking you, more asking because I have a feeling eventually I will run into stuff like this.

 

[SLCFranciscan]

This information is interesting because I have been feeling called to the Franciscans and as a married person with a young child I felt SFO was probably the best fit. I have just entered the inquiry period. I am also pretty conservative.

I haven’t yet seen the liberalism that you speak of in my fraternity (it meets at a Franciscan monastary) and I have been attending meetings since June.

My question is, instead of quitting and going againt your promises shouldn’t you be working as St. Francis said to “rebuild the church.” I have heard that many liberal Franciscans tend to also use the rebuild the church line but always forget that St. Francis did it always with the permission of the local Bishop and/or the Pope. He didn’t go against the magisterium in beliefs and actions. Things like that about St. Francis is what attracted me to the Franciscans in the first place.

Believe me, I am not attacking you, more asking because I have a feeling eventually I will run into stuff like this.

I have tried for ten years–alas, the liberalism occurs at the top (new officers were just elected for a 3-year term). We who are orthodox have tried as hard as we can, but to no avail. There comes a time when I have to quit spending all my time fighting against the powers that be who are pro-gay marriage, anti-Holy Father, etc. etc. and instead use my time and talents in teaching the faith, serving the poor, etc. Both my spiritual director and I agree that it is time to leave. There are other secular Francican groups which are more orthodox and where I do not have to have lifestyles like this pushed in my face all the time. That they chose to have an Episcopal priest notorious for his support of gay marriage–and who uses the rubric of “diversity” to justify his support of all sort of in anti-Magisterial behavior was the frosting on the proverbial cake, so to speak. It is time to shake the dust from my feet and go elsewhere. There are many, many wonderful people in the SFO, but it is heading in a dangerously liberal direction.

 

[Marauder]

I have tried for ten years–alas, the liberalism occurs at the top (new officers were just elected for a 3-year term). We who are orthodox have tried as hard as we can, but to no avail. There comes a time when I have to quit spending all my time fighting against the powers that be who are pro-gay marriage, anti-Holy Father, etc. etc. and instead use my time and talents in teaching the faith, serving the poor, etc. Both my spiritual director and I agree that it is time to leave. There are other secular Francican groups which are more orthodox and where I do not have to have lifestyles like this pushed in my face all the time. That they chose to have an Episcopal priest notorious for his support of gay marriage–and who uses the rubric of “diversity” to justify his support of all sort of in anti-Magisterial behavior was the frosting on the proverbial cake, so to speak. It is time to shake the dust from my feet and go elsewhere. There are many, many wonderful people in the SFO, but it is heading in a dangerously liberal direction.

Thank you for the information, it gives me things to think about during the inquiry period. I hope things work out for you. God Bless!

 

[mommyof4]

For those of you who are in Third Orders, I would like to ask you what attracted you to your particular order. As I understand it, there are differences between Dominican, Benedectine, Franciscan & Carmelite Orders, but I don’t really know what they are.

The reason I’m asking is that I have been thinking about joining a third order, but I don’t even know how to go about finding out about them. I am at a place in my life where I feel that God is calling me to do SOMETHING, but I’m just not sure what that “something” is.

Thank you.

 

[Marauder]

For those of you who are in Third Orders, I would like to ask you what attracted you to your particular order.

Each of the particular orders has a charism or charisms associated with them. They also tend to follow the spiritual life of either their founder or founders. I am currently investigating the Secular Franciscan Order because I have felt a calling to be a Franciscan because of feeling pulled to follow the ideals of St. Francis in living a life of poverty, chastity, and obediance. Since I am married with a young child I can’t do it the same way a First Order Franciscan would so I am investigating the SFO.

Other orders have other charisms associated with them (i.e. some stress preaching, some stress contemplative prayer.) That doesn’t mean that those things aren’t found in other orders it is just what they stress.

I suggest going to the online sites of the groups that may interest you and looking up the Rule (the covenants and rules they agree to abide by) and research the ideals/founder that the group professes to.

But remember a Third Order isn’t like joining a Bible study group or a social organization, it is more a way of life. If the “something” you are looking for is a prayer group, look for that. If it is a Bible study group, join one of those. If you are interested in service to the church but not an Order, something like the Ladies of Charity in your church may be an option. Or if your husband is interested in the Knights, the Ladies Auxilary to the Knights may be what you are looking for. If you feel called to a spiritual way of life, a Third Order or Secular Order may be for you. Only you can answer what that “something” is.

 

[Frodo_Lion]

Vows are more ‘binding’ than promises. If we break one of our promises, it does not constitute as being a “mortal sin” or anything like that.

I have never heard of “the Hours on pain of sin” so I’m not sure what you’re talking about.

You can check out domlife.org/BeingDominican/WhoWeAre/Laity.htm

for more information!

–Barbara

THANKS A LOT! I had been worried about this for quite some time… I heard years ago that first orders had to do the litergy of the Hours on pain of mortal sin, so I was worried it was like that with seculars too… Even though I know a lot of people are busy and may not be able to do them on time… I’m glad there isn’t anything extra that could create a mortal sin…

 

[homehermit]

hi!

the discalced carmelite seculars (OCDS) are an actual part of the order, consisting of friars, cloistered nuns, and seculars. OCDS live by the same Rule as the rest of the order. (Rule of St Albert)

this is a vocation that requires much discernment. one must be drawn to the spirituality of St Teresa of Jesus (Avila - foundress), St John of the Cross, others, ie St Therese of the Child Jesus and the Holy Face (aka the Little Flower), St Teresa Benedicta (aka Edith Stein) on and on. a life based on contemplative prayer. humility begins the journey of the purification towards union with God.

Elijah is considered the Father of the order, ‘with zeal have i been zealous for the Lord God of hosts’… ‘the Lord God lives before whom i stand’.
the Blessed Mother is the inspiration for contemplation, ,as she did with her son Jesus, always in quiet contemplation of God. She is the Mother and model for the order.

one may visit an OCDS group, have a 6 month period of “Aspirancy”. after that time if the community ( council) and person believe there is a vocation they may be clothed in the Brown Scapular (well known in the Church, given to Carmelite Simon Stock)

for a period of approx 2 years one studies the Rule, the spirituality of the saints, esp St Teresa and St John, and is immersed in the journey toward contemplation.

after this period if it is discerned by person and community they still may have a vocation, a temporary promise is made.

there are then approx 3 years of study delving more deeply into spirituality and the order.

at the end of this period, through careful discernment by community (council) and person, if a true vocation exists a profession may be made. the study continues for the rest of the life of the professed.

the goal of the carmelite is to become charity. contemplation in union with God leads the OCDS out into the world to share the fruits of their life of prayer.

throughout the entire discernment process and professed life the OCDS participates in the Liturgy of the Hours, morning and evening, night prayer for some. time daily of spiritual reading. 30 minutes daily given to silent prayer. daily mass if AT ALL possible, frequent confession.

it is a vocation. others drawn to the spirituality may be called to many other variations of it’s expression in the Church.

if one feels any interest in learning of the carmelite spirituality and of the OCDS, you can go to
www.ourgardenofcarmel.org
there are many writings and also links to the official OCDS site in Rome.

btw, a vocation like this is not “better” than a different “vocation” in the world. the Church has the “hands, feet,…” we have to find what “vocation” best serves and pleases God for our own soul. it all requres prayer and discernment.

someone else could have made a much better presentation of this! i apologize. but this is the gist of it.

blessed Lent!

 

[homehermit]

hi!

the discalced carmelite seculars (OCDS) are an actual part of the order, consisting of friars, cloistered nuns, and seculars. OCDS live by the same Rule as the rest of the order. (Rule of St Albert)

this is a vocation that requires much discernment. one must be drawn to the spirituality of St Teresa of Jesus (Avila - foundress), St John of the Cross, others, ie St Therese of the Child Jesus and the Holy Face (aka the Little Flower), St Teresa Benedicta (aka Edith Stein) on and on. a life based on contemplative prayer. humility begins the journey of the purification towards union with God.

Elijah is considered the Father of the order, ‘with zeal have i been zealous for the Lord God of hosts’… ‘the Lord God lives before whom i stand’.
the Blessed Mother is the inspiration for contemplation, ,as she did with her son Jesus, always in quiet contemplation of God. She is the Mother and model for the order.

one may visit an OCDS group, have a 6 month period of “Aspirancy”. after that time if the community ( council) and person believe there is a vocation they may be clothed in the Brown Scapular (well known in the Church, given to Carmelite Simon Stock)

for a period of approx 2 years one studies the Rule, the spirituality of the saints, esp St Teresa and St John, and is immersed in the journey toward contemplation.

after this period if it is discerned by person and community they still may have a vocation, a temporary promise is made.

there are then approx 3 years of study delving more deeply into spirituality and the order.

at the end of this period, through careful discernment by community (council) and person, if a true vocation exists a profession may be made. the study continues for the rest of the life of the professed.

the goal of the carmelite is to become charity. contemplation in union with God leads the OCDS out into the world to share the fruits of their life of prayer.

throughout the entire discernment process and professed life the OCDS participates in the Liturgy of the Hours, morning and evening, night prayer for some. time daily of spiritual reading. 30 minutes daily given to silent prayer. daily mass if AT ALL possible, frequent confession.

it is a vocation. others drawn to the spirituality may be called to many other variations of it’s expression in the Church.

if one feels any interest in learning of the carmelite spirituality and of the OCDS, you can go to
www.ourgardenofcarmel.org
there are many writings and also links to the official OCDS site in Rome.

btw, a vocation like this is not “better” than a different “vocation” in the world. the Church has the “hands, feet,…” we have to find what “vocation” best serves and pleases God for our own soul. it all requres prayer and discernment.

someone else could have made a much better presentation of this! i apologize. but this is the gist of it.

blessed Lent!
(sorry if this displays twice, hand slipped and not sure if it sent or not)

 

[JimR-OCDS]

homehermit

the discalced carmelite seculars (OCDS) are an actual part of the order, consisting of friars, cloistered nuns, and seculars. OCDS live by the same Rule as the rest of the order. (Rule of St Albert)

Point of correction here. We don’t live by the Rule of St. Albert, but that of the Secular Order of Discalced Caremelites.

St. Albert’s Rule mandates no eating of meat and only being allowed to own one mule.

Also, it is my understanding that the Secular Order of Discalced Carmelites are the only 3rd order, that members may make vows and that is allowed, one year after definitive promises.

In Carmel
Jim

 

[SLCFranciscan]

For those of you who are in Third Orders, I would like to ask you what attracted you to your particular order. As I understand it, there are differences between Dominican, Benedectine, Franciscan & Carmelite Orders, but I don’t really know what they are.

The reason I’m asking is that I have been thinking about joining a third order, but I don’t even know how to go about finding out about them. I am at a place in my life where I feel that God is calling me to do SOMETHING, but I’m just not sure what that “something” is.

Thank you.

I chose the Franciscans (rather, its charism chose me) because I wanted to work with the poor, homeless and disenfranchised. I also liked the idea that Francis was so true to the Magisterium. (Kind of ironic considering what SOME–not ALL–groups are doing today. Believe me, Francis was not some kind of 13th centure hippie doing anything he wanted.) I am very happy to be a Franciscan, am active in working for and with the less fortunate. I may be changing branches of the order (am still discerning with my spiritual director) but will always be a Franciscan. You might want to go some meetings of your local SFO and observe and see how it feels to you. The SFO is generally open to having people come as guests to their chapter meetings. That might be 1 place for you to start looking. While I was discerning, I also looked at the Carmelites and Dominicans. I met some of the most wonderful people on earth, but those charisms did not call me–Francis did!

 

[SLCFranciscan]

This information is interesting because I have been feeling called to the Franciscans and as a married person with a young child I felt SFO was probably the best fit. I have just entered the inquiry period. I am also pretty conservative.

I haven’t yet seen the liberalism that you speak of in my fraternity (it meets at a Franciscan monastary) and I have been attending meetings since June.

My question is, instead of quitting and going againt your promises shouldn’t you be working as St. Francis said to “rebuild the church.” I have heard that many liberal Franciscans tend to also use the rebuild the church line but always forget that St. Francis did it always with the permission of the local Bishop and/or the Pope. He didn’t go against the magisterium in beliefs and actions. Things like that about St. Francis is what attracted me to the Franciscans in the first place.

Believe me, I am not attacking you, more asking because I have a feeling eventually I will run into stuff like this.

I have truly discerned my leaving with my spiritual director. The problem is so widespread that it cannot be fixed. The problem occurs on a national, not a regional or local, level. I refuse to have the money I give to Fair Share go to national to support its pro-homosexual/global/leftist agenda. The SFO has been so thoroughly overtaken by ideologies not in keeping with the magisterium that I simply cannot support it. To try to change it is like trying to change the IRS or the US Amy–it ain’t gonna happen. And rather than deplete my energy fighting with them, I have chosen to go with a much more conservative magisterial group which does support the magisterium and where I can live out my Franciscan promises in a way that will make Jesus and Francis proud, not sad. I pray daily for the SFO. There are many, many fine people in that organization whom I love and admire. But an organization takes on its own character and personality; the SFO personna that has evolved over the past 10 years is not the charism to which I professed, nor does it embody the ideals which I feel represent loyalty to our Holy Father and the teaching magisterium of our church. I wish you all God’s peace in your discernment.

 

[Marauder]

I have truly discerned my leaving with my spiritual director. The problem is so widespread that it cannot be fixed.

Sorry to hear that you are leaving. Hopefully based on your spiritual director’s opinion it is the best for you. What organization are you moving to? If you don’t feel comfortable mentioning it to the group feel free to PM me.

I personally have been discussing this with a person within my SFO fraternity that is conservative and he says he occasionally sees things like you mention but by and large most of the people he knows tend to be on the conservative side. As of right now I still feel pulled to SFO but I do occasionally have concerns.

Good luck and God Bless

 

[SLCFranciscan]

Marauder, I am now a postulant with the Confraternity of Penitents. cfp.org.

I met some wonderful people in the SFO and made friendships that will last, hopefully, for decades. However, the organization at a national level appears to be functioning more like a political action committee than an order. Their values are no longer my values. As a traditional, magisterial Catholic, I simply cannot in good conscience support the decisions and choices of the SFO leadership. I pray for them all, I wish them well, but I do not at this point feel that I am being helped to be a better Christian or a better Franciscan by the current agenda. It is not my job to “correct” the leaders of the order; rather it is their job to model Franciscan humility and to follow the magisterium. Francis went to great lengths to get his holy rule approved so that everything was done in keeping with what the Holy Father wanted. Please understand that I am in no way judging individuals–that is not my job, either. I have more than enough work just to tend to my own knittin’ and try to do the work I was called to do, i.e., to give humble witness of Jesus’ love to the poor and to all. The national SFO has the appearance that it is becoming larger and more corporate. And if that is the choice of the leaders, fine, I can certainly respect that—I just cannot partake of things that fly in the face of what our magisterium teaches. I want conference speakers and leaders who are Catholics who are in line with magisterial teachings, not non-Catholics who are known for espousing radical politics and agendas. Again, the choice of how to run the organization rests with the individuals in office and I respect that; however, the choice of how best to live out my vocation rests with me and my informed conscience, which tells me that this is not the proper place for me. So I am leaving on good terms, I wish the many fine people there well, but I seek a simpler, more magisterial, much less corporatesque style of apostolate. I pray that Christ’s peace will be with all–with the SFO, with the CFP, with all seekers such as yourself. Please be very clear that I am not saying to not join the SFO or to join the SFO. That is a matter for your informed conscience and for prayer after careful examination. God bless you on your decision. There is a saying in Latin: Per aspera ad astra. Through the thorns to the stars. God has led me to where I am; the SFO played a very pivotal role in my life and I will always be grateful to them for that. However, I simply cannot continue down the same path with them at this point. Again, Christ’s peace be with all.

 

[loyalservant]

Reply to Puzzle Annie: Just for the record and so that people do not get the wrong idea from your comment. It is truly a “Religious Vocation” to belong to a third order. It matters not if we are in the world or in a monastery. You can find out more about Third Order Vocations from any Motherhouse. Our Carmelite Motherhouse happens to be in Middletown, NY.
Hope this helps to clear things up.

 

[carnes88]

Have you thought of writing the minister general of the order, and if nothing came of that then go to who we ultimately answer to,The Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life. This is why it’s very important to pay attention to who we elect into office. Yes I know this is old but better late than never. We need Orthodox Franciscans staying in the order, not leaving. If all of the Orthodox Brothers and sisters leave then we’ll be in the same position.

In Francis and Clare Br. Ryan Carnes, OFS

Marauder, I am now a postulant with the Confraternity of Penitents. cfp.org.

I met some wonderful people in the SFO and made friendships that will last, hopefully, for decades. However, the organization at a national level appears to be functioning more like a political action committee than an order. Their values are no longer my values. As a traditional, magisterial Catholic, I simply cannot in good conscience support the decisions and choices of the SFO leadership. I pray for them all, I wish them well, but I do not at this point feel that I am being helped to be a better Christian or a better Franciscan by the current agenda. It is not my job to “correct” the leaders of the order; rather it is their job to model Franciscan humility and to follow the magisterium. Francis went to great lengths to get his holy rule approved so that everything was done in keeping with what the Holy Father wanted. Please understand that I am in no way judging individuals–that is not my job, either. I have more than enough work just to tend to my own knittin’ and try to do the work I was called to do, i.e., to give humble witness of Jesus’ love to the poor and to all. The national SFO has the appearance that it is becoming larger and more corporate. And if that is the choice of the leaders, fine, I can certainly respect that—I just cannot partake of things that fly in the face of what our magisterium teaches. I want conference speakers and leaders who are Catholics who are in line with magisterial teachings, not non-Catholics who are known for espousing radical politics and agendas. Again, the choice of how to run the organization rests with the individuals in office and I respect that; however, the choice of how best to live out my vocation rests with me and my informed conscience, which tells me that this is not the proper place for me. So I am leaving on good terms, I wish the many fine people there well, but I seek a simpler, more magisterial, much less corporatesque style of apostolate. I pray that Christ’s peace will be with all–with the SFO, with the CFP, with all seekers such as yourself. Please be very clear that I am not saying to not join the SFO or to join the SFO. That is a matter for your informed conscience and for prayer after careful examination. God bless you on your decision. There is a saying in Latin: Per aspera ad astra. Through the thorns to the stars. God has led me to where I am; the SFO played a very pivotal role in my life and I will always be grateful to them for that. However, I simply cannot continue down the same path with them at this point. Again, Christ’s peace be with all.