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Holly3278
Guest
Hey everyone. How does one counter the argument that religion is superstition?
How does one counter the argument that religion is superstition?
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JRKH
Guest
Begin with a question…
“Why do you say it is a superstition?”
Their response will either -
a) demonstrate that further conversation is of little use
or
b) give you a starting point for further discussion.
You see…One cannot “counter” this argument. One can only explore the reasons that underlie the persons opinion…
Peace
James
“Why do you say it is a superstition?”
Their response will either -
a) demonstrate that further conversation is of little use
or
b) give you a starting point for further discussion.
You see…One cannot “counter” this argument. One can only explore the reasons that underlie the persons opinion…
Peace
James
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tabycat
Guest
Ask them why they think/believe that religion is superstition. 
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MarcoPolo
Guest
I agree with the others and ask. Also, Christianity is a historical reality, as well as are miracles and testimonies. Being afraid of the #13 does not have such a pedigree.
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Julia_Mae
Guest
Superstition is a belief in supernatural causality…
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstition
You say “Yes, it is.”
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SonCatcher
Guest
Ask them to define superstition. Once they have, explain “my religion isn’t like that.”
(alternately, if they say something like “belief in the unobserved,” you could point out that is really vague and includes macroevolution, as well)
(alternately, if they say something like “belief in the unobserved,” you could point out that is really vague and includes macroevolution, as well)
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SonCatcher
Guest
Incorrect conclusion for Catholicism.
“Supernatural causality” means a belief that one could force God to act in a certain way by doing certain things. Catholicism does not teach that God’s hand can be forced. Rather, He has ultimate autonomy.
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Farsight001
Guest
…“that one event leads to the cause of another without any physical process connecting the two”. Nope, not religion.
And that’s how you respond - with the definition of superstition, because it is obvious to a thinking person that the two are not the same.
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wmw
Guest
I’ll play the antagonist (through only as a fictitious role) and say, “What about a person with a dedicated superstition of wearing a lucky rabbit’s foot that can bring him good luck, (we all agree this is a classic superstition). He claims it does not force 100% guarantee all good luck all the time. It just makes his luck a little better; so as, to make some small amount of change in the world around him. How is this different than someone praying and saying I’m not forcing God’s hand, but only expect a little change in the world around me if my heart is in the right place, though the intersession of God, Angles, or Saints listening, interceding, or acting on the prayer? You either must say prayer doesn’t effect any change or you are effecting a change via the supernatural that fits this definition of supernatural causality just the same as the lucky rabbit’s foot.”
My aim is to show that Catholicism is true supernatural causality and supersitition is false supernatural causality, but trying to convice atheists that there is no supernatural causality only gets you to try to support their claims.
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wmw
Guest
Note further down in the Wikipedia entry the Catholic definition:
The current Catechism of the Catholic Church considers superstition to be sinful in the sense that it denotes a lack of trust in the divine providence of God and, as such, is a violation of the first of the Ten Commandments, defining superstition as “a perverse excess of religion”.
Thus in explaining the difference between religion and superstition as good Catholic “trust in divine actions” vs. “perverse excess of religion” rather than any denial of interaction of the supernatural and nature.
The current Catechism of the Catholic Church considers superstition to be sinful in the sense that it denotes a lack of trust in the divine providence of God and, as such, is a violation of the first of the Ten Commandments, defining superstition as “a perverse excess of religion”.
Thus in explaining the difference between religion and superstition as good Catholic “trust in divine actions” vs. “perverse excess of religion” rather than any denial of interaction of the supernatural and nature.
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Julia_Mae
Guest
No, it means exactly what the two words mean together: that there are effects on earth caused by supernatural forces. That it is often part of such belief systems that doing certain things causes supernatural action is also a fact.
And you can certainly argue this is the case in Catholicism through the Sacraments. Or through Jesus statements to Saint Faustina or Mary’s statements in numerous apparitions.
If someone has placed certain connotations on the word “superstition” that’s about them, and they can account for it. All religion is superstition.
It’s a good thing.
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Julia_Mae
Guest
And yet, it’s what we believe.
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Julia_Mae
Guest
We aren’t talking to Catholics and some definition the Church has for the teaching of the faithful. We are speaking to atheists who believe we will rise in shock and anger and they will trap us into insisting something unproveable.
“Yes, it is.” is the best response if one feels they must engage. “Uh-huh, so how about those Broncos?” is actually the best response.
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Mystophilus
Guest
Meh, “superstition” is used to mean “something which I believe to be unreasonable”. As such, I would go with JRKH’s response.
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Farsight001
Guest
In what universe?
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SonCatcher
Guest
Wikipedia defines “Supernatural Causality” as “one event leads to the cause of another without any physical process linking the two events [in a manner] that contradicts natural science”. We need to respect the term as defined. Since they emphasize natural science, it is obvious that the two events described are both physical. The Sacraments primarily have spiritual (not physical) effects. What is spiritual is clearly beyond the scope of natural science, entirely. Therefore, the Sacraments cannot be said to be superstition.
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Julia_Mae
Guest
Do you think the bread actually becomes the body of Christ, or do you think it is “spiritual?”
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wmw
Guest
First, What are you countering, in favor of, if not Catholicism?
Second, My first post was predominantly speaking the atheist’s argument telling exactly how they would trap the “Yes, it is.” just superstition position.
Third, accepting such a derogatory label as “superstition” to any religion that is to be taken seriously is NEVER a good argument. You are really telling people, “My religion is just as false as when athletes wear the same socks the last time their team won. Uh-huh, so how about those Broncos?”
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Ignatius
Guest
The term superstition contrasts with the term religion, by definition referring to what are seen as excessive or false behavior as opposed to a standard of proper or accepted religious standard.(See Wikipedia article on superstition)
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TimothyH
Guest
Say, “Yes, I know you think that we are superstitious. Did you see the Yankees last night?”
Then bake them cookies.
-Tim-
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