How does one explain Ephesians 2:8-9 to a Protestant?

[Holly3278]

Hi everyone. I was debating theology with a Baptist earlier and she came up with the scripture passage of Ephesians 2:8-9. How do I explain this scripture passage to Protestants in the future?

(Eph 2:8 RSV) For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God–
(Eph 2:9 RSV) not because of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[aball1035]

Hi everyone. I was debating theology with a Baptist earlier and she came up with the scripture passage of Ephesians 2:8-9. How do I explain this scripture passage to Protestants in the future?

(Eph 2:8 RSV) For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God–
(Eph 2:9 RSV) not because of works, lest any man should boast.

As I wrote on the John 3:16 post, faith is necessary but not sufficient in order to be saved.

So Protestants make the mistake of looking at Ephesians and claiming that faith is the only thing needed to get to Heaven, when in fact it doesn’t say that at all. It simply says that it’s necessary.

Notice how Baptism too is necessary for salvation (1 Peter 3:21, Mark 16:16, John 3:5, and others)

He isn’t connecting “not because of works” to “you have been saved”. He’s connecting “not because of works” to faith being “the gift of God”.
Do you follow?
Faith isn’t gained from our good works, rather it is a gift of God. He doesn’t approve or condemn being saved from good works-he only relates good works to faith, not salvation.

Notice James 2:24 -
“You see that a person is **justified by what he does **and not by faith alone.”

Martin Luther called James an “Epistle of straw”-or something to that extent…not hard to figure out why he thought that

 

[Holly3278]

As I wrote on the John 3:16 post, faith is necessary but not sufficient in order to be saved.

So Protestants make the mistake of looking at Ephesians and claiming that faith is the only thing needed to get to Heaven, when in fact it doesn’t say that at all. It simply says that it’s necessary.

Notice how Baptism too is necessary for salvation (1 Peter 3:21, Mark 16:16, John 3:5, and others)

He isn’t connecting “not because of works” to “you have been saved”. He’s connecting “not because of works” to faith being “the gift of God”.
Do you follow?
Faith isn’t gained from our good works, rather it is a gift of God. He doesn’t approve or condemn being saved from good works-he only relates good works to faith, not salvation.

Notice James 2:24 -
“You see that a person is **justified by what he does **and not by faith alone.”

Martin Luther called James an “Epistle of straw”-or something to that extent…not hard to figure out why he thought that

Ah ok. I think I am following you on this one. I’ll have to read your post again later though to help it sink in as my mind is a bit cloudy right now. But thanks!

 

[scott1228]

I would look at the example of the Christians that were formed by Our Lord Himself.

Read Acts and listen to St. Peter’s speech after the coming of the Holy Spirit. Those that want to be saved must repent and be baptised. Those who became Christian regularly met to receive Communion, and listen to Scripture (although the New Testament would not be fully written for at least another 60 years).

I trust the Apostles and their immediate successors got the formulation of the faith correct, and if they didn’t, what chance do we have?

Scott

 

[Jesus_123]

+A wonderful sister taught us the difference between . . . **1) ** God’s conditional promises . . . and . . . 2) God’s unconditional promises . . . and when studying Sacred Scripture it is very helpful to check and see which of the above two categories the Scriptures being studied fall into . . .

Unconditional promises are dependent entirely upon God’s Word alone . . . Biblical prophesies are often of this nature . . . for example . . .

"Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign;
Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son,
and His name shall be called Emmanuel."Isaiah 7:14
:bible1:

**In reference to your question . . . **if you add Verse 10 to your Ephesian 2:8-9 selection . . . I think it might make a bit more sense . . . and is more understandable with this addition to complete the doctrinal Scripture . . . and then it is clear that it falls into the . . . conditional promise . . . category . . . which promises for fulfillment are dependent upon . . . cooperative actions . . . involving both . . . activities on God’s part . . . and . . . activities on man’s part . . .

"For by grace are ye saved
through faith;
and that not of yourselves:
it is the gift of God.
Not of works,
lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
which God hath before ordained
that we should walk in them."
Ephesians 2:8-10
:bible1:

Grace and Faith are both gifts of God . . . **and denote activities on God’s part **. . . *and salvation cannot be obtained apart from these Holy Gifts from our Wonderful Merciful God . . . *

Aball1035 quoted James 2:24:
"Do you see that by works
a man is justified;
and not
by faith only?"
James 2:24
(Douay Rhiems Version)
:bible1:

which further clarifies the passage you were referencing . . . and this scripture . . . in particular . . . shows activites necessary on the part of mankind . . . showing that mankind’s fruitful works are the outward signs of true believing faith . . .

This is further clarified in an earlier passage in James . . .

"So faith also,
if it have not works,
is dead in itself."
James 3:27
:bible1:

Aball1035’s

*“Notice how Baptism too is necessary for salvation (1 Peter 3:21, Mark 16:16, John 3:5, and others)” *

The above quoted Scriptures then follow easily for understanding . . . when the combination of . . . God’s gracious gift of faith (God’s work - to give) . . . is truly received into the heart of man (Man’s work - to receive) . . . it will become fruitful . . . and fruitful works of faith will follow . . .

Hope this helps . . .

. . . all for Jesus+
. . . thank You Dear Holy Spirit of our God+​

 

[MarcoPolo]

I would respond that the Catholic Church agrees completely with Ephesians 2. Just look at the Catechism.

Without grace we are not justified. CCC#1996
After that we need faith (CCC#161) which is only possible with grace CCC#154. This faith must be lived out in the form of action/works…whatever you want to call it (CCC#1815) Pay special attention that we can’t do these without grace either: CCC#1821.

 

[Jesus_123]

Pax . . .

Marco Polo . . . as a church secretary for many years . . . I found your post with all its threads on appropriate communion wines fascinating . . . sent me chasing off to read labels on wine bottles . . . thanks much!

. . . all for Jesus+​

 

[yellowbird]

We ARE saved by God’s grace. None of get to heaven and are able to save we “deserve” to be there. That’s what I would tell my Protestant friends. Then I would mention that God established the sacrements in order for us to receive His graces.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Pax . . .

Marco Polo . . . as a church secretary for many years . . . I found your post with all its threads on appropriate communion wines fascinating . . . sent me chasing off to read labels on wine bottles . . . thanks much!

. . . all for Jesus+​

I do not think that was my thread, but I am glad you found something inspiring!

 

[ryanoneil]

verse 8-9 are works done outside of faith. verse 10 are good works of that are made possible by the grace of God and are done in faith. They pertain to salvation.

So then, my beloved, obedient as you have always been, not only when I am present but all the more now when I am absent, work out your salvation with fear and trembling. For God is the one who, for his good purpose, works in you both to desire and to work. (Phil 2:12-13)

who will repay everyone according to his works: eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works (Rom 2:6-7)