How does one fit into this community?

[JReducation]

Sometimes, I feel like a fish out of water on this forum and several others too. I have lived in several countries and about 10 dioceses, I think, not to mention religious houses. None of them have been perfect. Some were so far from perfect that I prayed daily to be taken out of there. I remember one situation where I did ask the superior general to please do something about it or to transfer me. But I never told anyone else how I felt about it, just him. He was the only person who had the power to resolve my problem.

The reason that I feel like a fish out of water is because despite the fact that I have lived and worked in very imperfect situations, some of them downright sinful, I never felt the need or the urge to go public with my concerns. I never felt the need or the urge to express my opinion. Of course I had no feelings about things that other people did over there when I was too busy over here. I can’t be in two places at one time. As I told a lady who asked me if I had noticed the short skirt of the girl in front of me at mass. “No, I’m afraid I didn’t. Because I can’t pray unless I close my eyes. With my eyes closed, I can’t see the girl in front of me. So I either look at the girl and don’t pray or I pray and don’t get to see the girl. I wish I could help you, but I can’t.”

I realize that some people hate me. You should see my emails and the hate mail I get, because I just can’t bring myself to join in the complaining about the Church, be it local or global.

It’s not that I’m blind. It has more to do with something that I learned as a novice and I have never forgotten. “I am what I am before God . . . nothing else.” I know that I’m not the Messiah. I know that I’m not a caretaker. I know that I’m not the sharpest needle in the sewing basket. So I limit myself to tackling those things that are within my limited abilities and limited intellect.

I feel that I have to share this here, because I’m getting some PMs and emails from people who think that I’m indifferent, because I don’t complain. But I don’t complain because to complain on these forums is not going to solve anything. Unless Pope Francis or my bishop read these, its just not productive. Whereas, I find teaching very productive. When someone comes in with a mistaken idea or a question. That’s a good use of the time on the forum.

I also understand that bishops and popes have very busy lives. I have worked for several bishops. There is no way that they can handle every problem in a diocese. They have to pick and choose. The bishop’s priorities are not always going to be my priorities. However, I accept that, because we’re too different people. What I see as urgent he does not and the other way around. To get him to see things my way, I would have to change him. It’s not my role in life to change who people are. God puts people in our path to challenge us, to enrich our lives, and at times even to make us do penance. If we try to change those folks, we may find that we’re tampering with God’s plan for us.

Maybe it can be considered complaining. I’m not sure. When I find something that I think it’s sooooo serious that the bishop or a religious superior should get involved, I contact that person. But I never tell anyone what I saw or what I perceive to be a concern, except in broad strokes. I may say that I believe there is a problem with how we prepare children for Confirmation. I won’t say that there is a problem with how the following parishes prepare them for Confirmation and then proceed to make a list. If I have such a list, it goes to the bishop.

Am I strange? Am I really as bad a person as a few people say I am? I’m curious. Please be gentle. I’m an old man. :yup:

 

[Incomplete]

Am I strange?

I’m so sorry to hear that you are getting the PMs and emails that you are getting. All of what you say, to me, makes very good sense.

But are you strange? Well, yes…in every GOOD sense of the word. Anybody growing in holiness is, in our present day society at least, a bit strange. May God bless me with your kind of strangeness.

 

[YoungTradCath]

I don’t think you are bad, and I think it’s silly that people would send you hate mail, which seems insecure to me. I just think people are generally and widely incapable of understanding your perspective–except in threads like this–because people do not understand your state in life. Whether that is an historical aberration we are unfortunately enduring right now in history and perhaps have experienced at some other points in history, or whether that is a perpetual problem, I don’t know.

I don’t “understand” your state in life because I am not a religious, nor have I been educated deeply about the religious life, despite the fact that my parish has four regular priests. To me, being a member of a Redemptorist parish is about as ordinary as living in any old diocesan parish; I don’t taste the religious-ness.

Anyway, I know enough to know that when I message you and post on your threads, I should second-guess what I say before I send or post it, and check it against the limited knowledge that I have about the religious perspective.

 

[Lormar]

Sometimes, I feel like a fish out of water on this forum

I do too.

You should see my emails and the hate mail I get, because I just can’t bring myself to join in the complaining about the Church, be it local or global.

If I have ever sent you either one that you consider hateful, please let me know.

 

[floresco]

I was just thinking about something like this earlier today. I recently posted to one of the trad forums where I am a member to say that I was quitting. I told them I could no longer be associated with them in good conscience. Predictably enough, there were many negative and even abusive responses.

I suppose that I have lead a fairly sheltered life, because, other than on the Internet, I do not have a lot of experience dealing with people who seem to hate me. It is somewhat disconcerting. I found it comforting to think about the ways that God can use the experience to teach me. Maybe I will be able to learn forgiveness or humility or some other virtue. Maybe it will make me more aware and appreciative of kindness and, in turn, inspire me to be more kind. I do not know exactly how God will use this, but I know that He will use this for my good in some way.

Perhaps thinking about such things will help you to deal with receiving unpleasantly critical PMs and emails. And, for what it’s worth, I agree with you about not complaining about things on forums.

 

[JReducation]

Floresco, I like what you’re saying. I’ve been reading the other thread that you started on critiquing radical traditionalism. I have not posted on that, because I think that the presence of a religious would trigger all kinds of reactions that would destroy the flow.

But I think there are many people who feel that they don’t belong, because they don’t approach issues the same way as people the forums do. Pope Francis has introduced the word “encounter” into the Church’s vocabulary. I like the word. I think it flows right along with Pope Benedict’s “Truth in Charity”

In order to have a real experience of Church, there has to be an encounter with Christ and with Christians. To encounter Christ is to encounter Truth. We should share this truth, but we must do so with charity. Charity is not the same as whining, complaining, griping, finger pointing, etc.

I just finished reading the autobiography of one of my favorite saints, John Bosco. I’ve read it three times now. I’m sure that in a year or so I’ll read it again. People made this man’s life hell and sabotaged his work left and right. But the man never complained. He writes about it in his autobiography, because the pope ordered him to write his life story and to leave nothing out. Even when he tells you about those who were unkind to him, the dysfunctional state of the diocese of Turin at the time, the political tension of the day, he just reports it like one who is saying, “It was raining that Tuesday morning.” He never tells you how he felt about these things. Nor does he tell you what so and so should have done instead of doing X.

There are so many of our great saints who just would not fit in with us that it makes me wonder, who it is that is disconnected from reality.

 

[the_phoenix]

Hi JReducation,

As for you not fitting in here on the forums, you’re not alone. In all the years I’ve been here, I’ve made just one actual friend. On the good side, she was a genuine good friend who became a best friend, named spiritualunity also called Heidi, who has since died of heart disease. I’m so grateful that God allowed her and me to become friends, and I pray for her soul every day.

As for the hate mail you are receiving … it just goes with the territory that anyone simply trying to live their life and follow God is going to make enemies and be hated. Even if you’re quiet about things … or in your case it seems … especially when you’re quiet about things. But there’s a great deal to be said for silence and solitude.

For my part, I have been neglectful of publicly appreciating the wisdom in your posts. I’m sure there are others who gain tremendous value from reading your posts too … Only, the ones who oppose you look like they’re more vocal.

So please consider this post as encouragement
to keep on being who you are.

~~ the phoenix

 

[SecretaryMonday]

I’m sure there are others who gain tremendous value from reading your posts too …

Yes! Brother JR, I am sorry that you have been treated poorly. I am not on the forums very much, but when I do see your posts, they seem incredibly thoughtful and balanced. You don’t post anything that is not worth posting, and worth reading.

 

[floresco]

There are so many of our great saints who just would not fit in with us that it makes me wonder, who it is that is disconnected from reality.

I think today’s Gospel reading (from Luke 6) is very appropriate for this discussion, especially this bit:

22 'Blessed are you when people hate you, drive you out, abuse you, denounce your name as criminal, on account of the Son of man.

23 Rejoice when that day comes and dance for joy, look!-your reward will be great in heaven. This was the way their ancestors treated the prophets.

 

[JReducation]

Hi JReducation,

As for you not fitting in here on the forums, you’re not alone. In all the years I’ve been here, I’ve made just one actual friend. On the good side, she was a genuine good friend who became a best friend, named spiritualunity also called Heidi, who has since died of heart disease. I’m so grateful that God allowed her and me to become friends, and I pray for her soul every day.

As for the hate mail you are receiving … it just goes with the territory that anyone simply trying to live their life and follow God is going to make enemies and be hated. Even if you’re quiet about things … or in your case it seems … especially when you’re quiet about things. But there’s a great deal to be said for silence and solitude.

For my part, I have been neglectful of publicly appreciating the wisdom in your posts. I’m sure there are others who gain tremendous value from reading your posts too … Only, the ones who oppose you look like they’re more vocal.

So please consider this post as encouragement
to keep on being who you are.

~~ the phoenix

Thank you for your kind words. I’m truly sorry to hear about your friend. Sometimes it pays to have a good friend who goes ahead of us.

I’m a big believer in tradition. But I’m also a believer that tradition is very broad. It includes so many wonderful parts of our faith and our history. Some things we don’t know or have forgotten. One of the most beautiful parts of Catholic tradition is Benedictine charity. I think this is a good place to resuscitate it.

St. Benedict always told his monks and his oblates that they must be hospitable to the stranger, because it was Christ who came calling at the door. He never quibbled with his guests about their faith or lack thereof. Benedict was a stern man with the heart of a poet. His approach was always to invite the other to come and see. When his invitation was accepted, he made every possible effort to explain the faith as patiently and as positively as possible. When his invitation was declined, he was most polite and thanked his listener for the opportunity to serve him.

 

[JReducation]

I think today’s Gospel reading (from Luke 6) is very appropriate for this discussion, especially this bit:

 

[freshwind]

Dear Brother,

please do not change. Thank you for being who you are. You teach and inspire without judgement, there are far too many judgements posted on these forums and obviously by pm as well it seems.

I know myself, and many others are taught by your simple words.

I feel drawn to you, but I need to explain a bit, you remind me very much of a cousin of mine, you speak and lead with the same voice.

He is in his late 70’s and a Franciscan priest who spent most of his life in South America working among the poor. He now teaches and spends time with young men discerning their vocation.

He is somewhat responsible for my return to the Church after a discussion we had when I was about 17 or 18. I was like many teenagers, smarter than my parents, my teachers, the Pope, everyone. I explained to him all of my issues with the Church and Catholicism. He listened, he never judged, he said - it is good that you have many questions and objections, the secret to life is to ask honest questions, of both yourself and of God…if you are truly honest in your questions, God will answer, maybe today, maybe tomorrow, maybe not until your deathbed, BUT God will answer an honest question.

I questioned for nearly 10 years before my return, but He drew me back home. (not without stumbles and screwups, I still stumble, but at least Jesus is there to help me regain my balance)

This story does not do justice to his demeanour and the peace he seemed to have with his God, and I sense that in you, I feel a kindred spirit to a degree with you, you remind me so much of him, your writings and response sometimes seem they are being written directly to me, I believe that is because when we speak the truth, it speaks to everyone.

Do not let the naysayers slow you down, you are doing God’s work…many of us appreciate your words, as for the others…“shake the dust from your feet” and carry on.

God bless you Brother.

ps - on a happy note, I think my cousin will be visiting my mother shortly so I may get a chance to see him, it has been too long

 

[Dorothy]

Sometimes, I feel like a fish out of water on this forum and several others too. I have lived in several countries and about 10 dioceses, I think, not to mention religious houses. None of them have been perfect. Some were so far from perfect that I prayed daily to be taken out of there. I remember one situation where I did ask the superior general to please do something about it or to transfer me. But I never told anyone else how I felt about it, just him. He was the only person who had the power to resolve my problem.

The reason that I feel like a fish out of water is because despite the fact that I have lived and worked in very imperfect situations, some of them downright sinful, I never felt the need or the urge to go public with my concerns. I never felt the need or the urge to express my opinion. Of course I had no feelings about things that other people did over there when I was too busy over here. I can’t be in two places at one time. As I told a lady who asked me if I had noticed the short skirt of the girl in front of me at mass. “No, I’m afraid I didn’t. Because I can’t pray unless I close my eyes. With my eyes closed, I can’t see the girl in front of me. So I either look at the girl and don’t pray or I pray and don’t get to see the girl. I wish I could help you, but I can’t.”

I realize that some people hate me. You should see my emails and the hate mail I get, because I just can’t bring myself to join in the complaining about the Church, be it local or global.

It’s not that I’m blind. It has more to do with something that I learned as a novice and I have never forgotten. “I am what I am before God . . . nothing else.” I know that I’m not the Messiah. I know that I’m not a caretaker. I know that I’m not the sharpest needle in the sewing basket. So I limit myself to tackling those things that are within my limited abilities and limited intellect.

I feel that I have to share this here, because I’m getting some PMs and emails from people who think that I’m indifferent, because I don’t complain. But I don’t complain because to complain on these forums is not going to solve anything. Unless Pope Francis or my bishop read these, its just not productive. Whereas, I find teaching very productive. When someone comes in with a mistaken idea or a question. That’s a good use of the time on the forum.

I also understand that bishops and popes have very busy lives. I have worked for several bishops. There is no way that they can handle every problem in a diocese. They have to pick and choose. The bishop’s priorities are not always going to be my priorities. However, I accept that, because we’re too different people. What I see as urgent he does not and the other way around. To get him to see things my way, I would have to change him. It’s not my role in life to change who people are. God puts people in our path to challenge us, to enrich our lives, and at times even to make us do penance. If we try to change those folks, we may find that we’re tampering with God’s plan for us.

Maybe it can be considered complaining. I’m not sure. When I find something that I think it’s sooooo serious that the bishop or a religious superior should get involved, I contact that person. But I never tell anyone what I saw or what I perceive to be a concern, except in broad strokes. I may say that I believe there is a problem with how we prepare children for Confirmation. I won’t say that there is a problem with how the following parishes prepare them for Confirmation and then proceed to make a list. If I have such a list, it goes to the bishop.

Am I strange? Am I really as bad a person as a few people say I am? I’m curious. Please be gentle. I’m an old man. :yup:

No! You are not strange. You are right to not join in gossip or complaining about the Church and whether V2 was bad and topics such as that.

And it is good to handle something that needs correcting by going directly where it should be heard.

I have always felt peaceful and appreciative of the wisdom and teaching in your posts.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

Br. Jay,

Just the idea that YOU get "hate mail"makes me lean more toward the belief that the Internet will be the down-fall of civilization.

I have been considering restricting my time in these forums because I have noticed that it is not very spiritually beneficial for me at this point in my journey. I understand that is is difficult to express one’s self sometimes, and I too am guilty of posting “in the heat of the moment”, but the anonymous nature of the Internet, it seems, makes some people say things in ways they would never say face-to-face and forget all the basic rules for civil discourse.

One of the reasons I stay on this forum is you. Your posts are always insightful, full of information, and really make me look at things in a new perspective. I am grateful that I have come to know you through this forum, and I know I am a better woman, and Christian, because of you.

Peace, prayers & blessinsgs to you Brother! :hug1:

 

[Fan_of_Francis]

Dearest Brother,

My heart dropped when I read this. I am truly sorry for you feeling this way and that this is happening to you.

For what it is worth, I search for you and Fr Serpa’s posts for sound loving advice.
In prayer for you

 

[JReducation]

I didn’t really want to narrow the focus on me. I put myself out there in the hope that others who may have similar experiences would come out of the woodwork. You see, here is how I see the world. I’ve been around the block a few times and in different roles: religious, husband and father, and religious again. It’s kind of cool when you have this kind of comparative experience of the world and the Church. But I digress . . . here is my belief.

There is this incredible silent majority. We all know that. What many people don’t know is that this silent majority has much to contribute. Very often, those who belong to this silent group feel that they don’t belong or are not welcome among the more vocal, because if they open their mouth to say what they’re thinking, they won’t fit in. They simply don’t see things as the more vocal group does.

My hope, in starting this thread, is to show this silent group that no matter how loudly and how rude the vocal minority can get, it won’t eat us alive. Yes, I’ve gotten hate mail and hate PMs. One person sent me a very funny hate mail. I truly had to laugh. The person said that I was a Protestant infiltrator. I had to laugh because I’ve only known two Protestants very well. I can’t be a Protestant as I know very little about Protestantism other than what I’ve read in books or these two friends have shared with me. I’ve met many Protestant people, but do not have a relationship with them.

Another email that I received accused me of being un-American, because I place the Church over the Constitution. I don’t remember ever discussing the Constitution. The case is that the writer was targeting my belief that many Catholics in the USA put their patriotism ahead of their faith and these are not just politicians. So I’m a bad guy who deserves all kinds of bad things.

One that was no so nice was a person who hoped that God would take me hope soon, because the sooner the Modernists died the sooner the Church could return to normal. Not only was it not nice, but it left me with a question mark. Was there ever a point in time when the Catholic Church was normal? What exactly is normal for the Catholic Church?

I’m sure that I’m not alone in this kind of questioning. But others who share these positions are often silent, because they believe they’re not invited to the table. That’s why I love the spirit of St. Benedict. Always open the door and keep the light on, you never know when Christ will knock.

Dear Brother,

I feel drawn to you, but I need to explain a bit, you remind me very much of a cousin of mine, you speak and lead with the same voice.

It’s interesting that you should say this. On Monday night I had a class with the postulants. I was saying that there are over 100 Franciscan communities or branches to the tree. Although we have different apostolic missions, we all share one common spirit, because we follow the same rule of life and look to the same spiritual father to help us become more like Christ. The differences are style not substance. Maybe that’s why we sound alike.

BUT God will answer an honest question.

Friar is right. If your question comes from your heart, God will answer it. That’s why I always tell people that I don’t panic about non Catholics. I am more concerned with those who question and reject the truth, because it gives them a way out. Whether they’re Catholic or not, it’s dishonest. God cannot save the dishonest, because he does not want to be saved. He finds excuses and raises questions to put distance between himself and God.

Br. Jay,

the Internet will be the down-fall of civilization.

Do you really think so? I do know that it is the means by which many souls are being lost. There is no doubt in my mind about that. The Internet provides access to all kinds of garbage, not just porn. All kinds of garbage.

As I get older, I’m becoming more familiar with the Internet, because my health does not allow me to get out as much. I deliver many of my lectures via cyber space. I do a lot teaching and counseling via Skype. I have started a blog of essays that I would like to publish as a book of thoughts for the ordinary man and woman. I send out many of my lessons for my expectant fathers to my volunteers via email and then we review them via Skype when I can’t get to them. I try to get to them at least twice a week. But I direct an archdiocesan program that covers three counties in FL. It’s a lot of territory. Needless to say, I’ve had to become familiar with the internet for research and communication purposes. There is a lot of good that can come out of it.

Dearest Brother,

For what it is worth, I search for you and Fr Serpa’s posts for sound loving advice.
In prayer for you

Thank you that is very kind and it is an honor to see my name in the same sentence with Farther Vincent. He and I have never met. We live on opposite sides of the country. But I like reading his work. He’s very smart. I don’t always agree with him, but not because he’s not intelligent. It’s a Dominican - Franciscan thing. LOL Dominicans are very Thomistic. They follow classical Thomism. Franciscans have never been Thomistic. Even when everyone was studying Thomas back before Vatican II, Franciscans were studying Duns Scotus and Bonaventure. Aquinas was mentioned here and there, but we didn’t dedicate four years to studying Aquinas.

Sometimes when Father says something, I remember something that Bonaventure or Scotus said, which is really just a different approach to the same finish line.

 

[Country_Gal]

I’ve never really fit in anywhere in my life, I guess I’m used to it. I doubt if I fit in here very well. I’m just a round peg in a world with square holes I guess!

 

[Oneofthewomen]

I’ve never really fit in anywhere in my life, I guess I’m used to it. I doubt if I fit in here very well. I’m just a round peg in a world with square holes I guess!

I can so relate with you Country Gal!
And I love your signature- BBT is my favorite show!!!

 

[Beryllos]

If we are one body of Christ, as in 1 Corinthians 12, your detractors and persecutors must be among the smellier body parts … and yet, as St. Paul did not write, the mouth cannot say to the anus, “I have no need of you,” for each needs the other. Can it be that even they are somehow essential parts in God’s design? I suppose so. Let us pray for unity. Peace to you, Brother.

 

[Country_Gal]

I can so relate with you Country Gal!
And I love your signature- BBT is my favorite show!!!

It is a good one!