I think you know *exactly *how *they *feel, then!! Perhaps you could focus on the ironic fact that you and those atheists find yourselves in the same frustrating spot!?!?
Amen. One of my sons experimented with a jaunt away from Catholicism and into atheism. He had issues with the Church, but when his atheist friends were unfairly criticizing her and putting down religion in general in his presence, he told them, "you need to realize that atheism is just as much a religion as any other denomination. It takes just as much faith to claim there is no God beyond our understanding, then that there is a God. (“anyone who is not against us is for us.”)
I’m finding in my little venture over the past year or so …
I am fascinated by this and tentatively endorse it, pending a few questions I have get answered the right way. I would love to get into this in more detail and hear more about your theories. We can discuss on a public thread, but it might be more efficient at least at first if we go by PM and I have some ideas where we might take if from there. What do you think? Please PM me or answer here.
To put it another way, I think the argument between atheism and Catholicism is one of language rather than one of Truth. My own atheism applies specifically to the god of the typical American Protestant–but that’s the only god I ever knew growing up.
Bingo! I have come to the exact same conclusion. A huge amount of the differences between all of us can be explained as language-based.
But more importantly, I think you are right in that there is a huge overlap in different religions and philosophies, including atheism. Except the sociopaths, atheists have an opinion of right and wrong behavior toward other people that can match Catholic teachings better than what some Catholics think.
And as you say, the differences themselves can be more literal than substantial. It’s like the differences have accidental forms of verbal conflict, while they have no particular meaning substantially.
For example, a thirsty person needs water and an atheist, or Buddhist, Catholic, or Samaritan gives her water. Which one will be rewarded in heaven?
Opposite example: one kid is getting beaten up by two other boys, while a crowd of 20 stands in a circle around them, watching them batter him and doing nothing to provide or call for help, or even offering verbal encouragement and some clapping their hands and chanting, “fight! fight!” – and the 20 include boys and girls both, and represent religions from Catholicism to atheism to satanism to Buddhism, now which ones will be treated how, in heaven?
My point is that the Bible says the law of love is written on our hearts. (
Rom 2:15, 2 Cor 3:2-3)
What we call any particular provision of the law does not change the reality of its rightness or wrongness. Call it karma, commandments, faith, logic, or whatever – all roads lead to the same conclusions about the behavior of these kids.
[A movie I recently saw that speaks to this is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS0lcG4l0H4”]Lord, Save Us from Your Followers: Why is the Gospel of Love Dividing America? Warning: this movie has segments that may easily offend if you are easily upset by criticism of professed Christians. So watch it at your own emotional risk; I warned you. I think the movie is very inspiring and constructive, and I think it could help an atheist see what Christianity can be. And the guy is not a Catholic, but there are Catholic theologians interviewed in the movie.]
In other words, I believe every group in my examples above will be treated the same way by God because they have shown their faith or its lack through their works. Faith in an ultimate Truth so obvious to any human being with any empathy whatsoever, that we know it whether we believe it was told to us by God’s church or not. We may have different religious beliefs, but we were all made in the image of the same God and as human beings have much more in common than our religions divide.
That goes for punishment as well as reward. I say that Christian or not, every one of those 20 kids in the circle knew that one of them needs to take action, but chose not to be that person for whatever reason – fear of getting hurt, unhealthy desire to see people hurt each other so they can watch, etc. To me they are all just as guilty even if they are not hypocritical in that they profess no Higher Power to convict them.
Actually, non-denominational Christians, Protestants, Wiccans, and a Pantheist all played roles in helping me find my way back to Church when I was on haitus for a few years, and then helping me find my sanity. I don’t believe what they believe but they were there for me when I needed help when there were no Catholics around. I’m home now but it’s nice those outsiders helped escort me to the door. The King’s horses and men come in different colors and breeds.
An atheist can be Christlike and even observe Christ’s teachings, without believe He even exists. This is part of the conclusions I got when I took an engineering approach to the problem of agnosticism.
Alan
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