How does one know that one exists?

[Flufebunekilr]

I want to clarify that I live like I do not doubt the existence of me, as a physical entity. I just wanted to further understand what “I” was, the self identity or function. I am a fan of David Hume, were the existence of I is more of an illusion and everything that makes us a self identity is always in flux/change. So in change nothing is established or constant, so “I” would not always be the same. Example relating the “I” to the body: A lighter lights a flame, each time the flame is lit it is produces a new flame, the lighter mechanics are always the same but the flame produced is never the same flame as before. The lighter being the body and the flame the consciousness or possibly “I”. It is only that our experiences are so individualized that we feel a sense of self and existence. So my belief is that “I” is a physical construct only that it is always fluctuating(changing). My use for the word “I” is referring to what one is in the simplest component. I do not believe the perception of “I”(self) can exist without the physical body, just as the flame without the lighter. I think I just don’t like what I believe what “I” is and was wanting someone to tell me different. So if I am wrong or someone disagrees with my belief of “I” and how it exists please comment or post.

 

[tonyrey]

The most economical and most adequate explanation of thoughts is that they are produced by a thinker.

To believe thoughts occur without a thinker is contrary to common sense, the legal system, the Declaration Of Human Rights and all civilised behaviour.

People wouldn’t ask such a question if the answer to that was adequate

People often ask absurd questions…

The fact that we experience things (including thinking) doesn’t provide any prove that we do exist. I can simply say that “thought has been experienced” instead of “I experienced thought” or more stronger “I thought”.

“thought has been experienced” raises more questions than it answers. By what? How? Where? When? Why?

In fact experiencing thoughts unlike experiencing an object is an abstract phenomena and it is detached from things surrounding you, including your body and perhaps even your mind (at least we have no logical prove for it).

The abstract nature of thoughts simply proves that they are not physical events even though they are often related to neural activity.

The very important fact that we always strive on something else to prove our existences leads to doubt that these sort of proofs for our existence are valid.

Very few people try to prove they - or the world for that matter - exist because it is not necessary to do so.

Can you name any sane person who has expressed doubts?

 

[Aloysium]

I would suggest that there is something called truth.
It requires no proof because it is obvious; it is true.
Since we are rational, social beings, truths are a combination of personal and learned.
Ultimately it is through the grace and power of the Holy Spirit that we know such things as the reality of our own existence, created by God.

 

[XndrK]

My mind is in pain.

 

[onenow1]

I would suggest that there is something called truth.
It requires no proof because it is obvious; it is true.
Since we are rational, social beings, truths are a combination of personal and learned.
Ultimately it is through the grace and power of the Holy Spirit that we know such things as the reality of our own existence, created by God.

:thumbsup:The definition of ‘truth’ is ‘opposite of error’. Truth means it is conformable to fact. It is correct. Truth in action, is when the human conscience agrees with the intellect. Truth is ‘ONE’. There can be only one truth, Jn 17:17-23. Any variation in the one truth is not truth at all, but error.

God Bless All

 

[Phil_Marinus]

My mind is in pain.

And here I was thinking the same thing,,,,, at first I thought it was because I was out in the hot sun without a hat.... But no..... it's this Nonsense Thread....

 

[kmcarl56]

When a person thinks, certain parts of a brain illuminate on a scan. One can use the term “I am thinking,” “that’s my brain in there thinking,” or “that’s your brain scan, see how it glows when you think certain thoughts?”

How is that for an answer?

I think that it is pretty obvious…I am.

 

[Aloysium]

And here I was thinking the same thing, at first I thought it was because I was out in the hot sun without a hat… But no… it’s this Nonsense Thread…

Did you really “think” you were in pain. I think you were imagining it; if you were in pain you would know it. Having said that, nonsense as a negation of the good that is a proper functioning mind, would involve suffering of some sort.

Nonsense or otherwise, it brings into focus the fact that we are mind - pretty amazing stuff!!

BTW: Brain =/= Mind; they are two separate structures of understanding the same thing: the unity that is the human body/spiritual soul.

 

[littlenothing]

That is so funny! Though, I must ask, what did he say to that?

As for you, the OP, I’m afraid I, too, can’t answer your question, mostly because I’m not exactly sure what you want to know. Sorry about that. Much love to you.

Best I can recall, he simply chastised my too smart sis for tormenting me. Vindicated, I stuck my tongue out at her and promptly was called to account. I couldn’t believe it! First I’m right, then I’m wrong! So I told dad, “but I was sticking my tongue out at HER, not at YOU!”

And sometimes I don’t feel much wiser than I was at age three!

 

[ventura2323]

How does one know that one exists?

How does one know that there is an existence of a soul?

Major complaint: Descartes “I think therefore I am” = illogical fallacy

Descartes
I think therefore I am
What does I = if I is unknown?

I is (unknown)
Unknown think therefore unknown am

Descartes defines I in his statement before answering what I is, by stating that I thinks.

Just smell the roses.

 

[ventura2323]

My mind is in pain.

Good reply . But, when the mind is in pain you must ask yourself why?

 

[TimothyH]

It can be proven beyond any doubt scientifically that you exist…
It has a scientific term… It’s called selficimpactess , it’s a rare word so I doubt it’s even on google… First get an impact thing like a mallet… Place left hand on a rock, raise mallet in right hand above right ear, then drop on left hand at steady speed.continue until convinced that your right hand exists, which inturn is connected to the rest of your body…which inturn could and should cause pain… If you succeed at feeling pain… Then yep…you do exist.

I’m no philosopher but I was thinking along those lines.

The OP asks how one can know that they exist. He does not ask for proof. Many here have been discussing proof. One can know something without proof.

When life gets so bad that you pray for death, then you will know that you exist. When life gets so bad that you wish you never existed in the first place, then you will be convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that you exist, even if there is no way to prove it to others.

Just ask Job.

-Tim-

 

[ventura2323]

I’m no philosopher but I was thinking along those lines.

The OP asks how one can know that they exist. He does not ask for proof. Many here have been discussing proof. One can know something without proof.

When life gets so bad that you pray for death, then you will know that you exist. When life gets so bad that you wish you never existed in the first place, then you will be convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that you exist, even if there is no way to prove it to others.

Just ask Job.

-Tim-

When one prays for death, it is the darkness that exists.

 

[17_Gen_r]

We do not exist. There’s a reason why His name is I AM.

 

[ventura2323]

We do not exist. There’s a reason why His name is I AM.

He created us, so we do exist physically in order to test our souls. The body is a temporary thing. The soul exists in the body for His purpose.

 

[17_Gen_r]

My existence cannot be derived from my essence. That’s why you’ll not find your existence by introspection, by looking into your essence, into your “I”. It is a miracle that we exist. He is our existence. The Father is the Rock i.e., existence himself. The Son is the essence of existence, begot of the Rock’s introspection. The Father is in the Son because God’s existence is derivable from God’s essence. The Son is in the Father because Jesus is born of God’s mind, in God’s Wisdom.

Jesus is the Logos, the realm of the formal, the conceptual & mathematical “space”.

 

[ventura2323]

My existence cannot be derived from my essence. That’s why you’ll not find your existence by introspection, by looking into your essence, into your “I”. It is a miracle that we exist. He is our existence. The Father is the Rock i.e., existence himself. The Son is the essence of existence, begot of the Rock’s introspection. The Father is in the Son because God’s existence is derivable from God’s essence. The Son is in the Father because Jesus is born of God’s mind, in God’s Wisdom.

Jesus is the Logos, the realm of the formal, the conceptual & mathematical “space”.

You are an intellectual.

 

[ventura2323]

My existence cannot be derived from my essence. That’s why you’ll not find your existence by introspection, by looking into your essence, into your “I”. It is a miracle that we exist. He is our existence. The Father is the Rock i.e., existence himself. The Son is the essence of existence, begot of the Rock’s introspection. The Father is in the Son because God’s existence is derivable from God’s essence. The Son is in the Father because Jesus is born of God’s mind, in God’s Wisdom.

Jesus is the Logos, the realm of the formal, the conceptual & mathematical “space”./QUOTE

Just study your thoughts and mind and you will see that you exist… (Both good and bad thoughts)

 

[Phil_Marinus]

I suggested earlier that if your unaware that you exist then belt yourself on the hand with a mallet… that should convince you that you exist… have you tried that yet ?
if you wish to prove you are a Conscious thinking person that can rationalise a situation, then you should be able to predict the outcome of belting yourself on the hand with a mallet.
if you wish to prove you have a soul… then don’t belt yourself on the head with a mallet…
unless you wear a protective helmet…
To Prove you have a Soul, then what you do is this…

One… Go to you Priest and ask him to prove you have a soul.

Two… Meditate deeply in Prayer in the middle of a huge field all by yourself…

Three… Die and get back to me…

Four… Well If I can feel it why can’t you …

Five… get me that mallet…

 

[ventura2323]

I suggested earlier that if your unaware that you exist then belt yourself on the hand with a mallet… that should convince you that you exist… have you tried that yet ?
if you wish to prove you are a Conscious thinking person that can rationalise a situation, then you should be able to predict the outcome of belting yourself on the hand with a mallet.
if you wish to prove you have a soul… then don’t belt yourself on the head with a mallet…
unless you wear a protective helmet…
To Prove you have a Soul, then what you do is this…

One… Go to you Priest and ask him to prove you have a soul.

Two… Meditate deeply in Prayer in the middle of a huge field all by yourself…

Three… Die and get back to me…

Four… Well If I can feel it why can’t you …

Five… get me that mallet…

The mallet is on your head can’t you feel it. LOL