How does one reconcile some of today's readings (Sunday, Sept. 17) with how they and others are treated at their parishes?

[pnewton]

We pray to God, “lead us not into temptation”, and we should do the same for others as best we can.

“Best we can” is a good criteria. Forgiveness is not always a single point decision, but a journey when the wound goes deep. One example I heard this weekend was of a woman who was battered so much that her scars remain thirty years later. Yet she and here husband take this elderly man, the father of her children, out to dinner and golfing every month or so. Now, I am sure the first year away from such abuse forgiveness was more of a battle. We just need to remember to keep forgiving.

 

[Duesenberg]

You wish hell on no one. That is how you learn to forgive. Whatever abhorant sin they have committed or offense, you wish to see them restored. It it sad, though, that our parishes, what should be our holy places, are populated by sometimes unrepentive sinners, it’s the closest they will ever get to heaven so let them go.

What does that mean exactly? Physically avoid them as best as possible?

 

[Duesenberg]

…If you really feel unjustly treated in your parish, switch parishes. If it happens again there, maybe look closely to see if you yourself are contributing to the problem; if not, offer it up and remember that you go to church to see Jesus, not other parishioners.

I already attend the most tolerable parish in my deanery as I noted above and I’m not willing to move. I have experienced good, reverent, respectful parishes on vacation, so I know they exist, but switching parishes here locally isn’t going to make things any better.

I’m not really treated unjustly that much anymore as I strictly limit my exposure to my parish to the sacraments. That has helped a lot, but it’s nothing like being a part of a good parish that enjoys strong leadership.

 

[Duesenberg]

I could have written this post. You don’t happen to live in Western NY, do you?

I am battling this right now in my own parish. There is a small, yet vocal group who has painted me and a few others as overly orthodox zealots who don’t “meet people where they are.”

I am sorry to hear that. One thing that has helped me personally is to no longer get involved with things like being a confirmation catechists. While I do miss getting involved in such activities, doing all I can to ensure I’ll still attend Mass and avail myself to the rest of the sacraments comes first.

Even then, “those in charge” can still become upset when they receive my now patented “no thank you” response to their requests for help.

 

[pianistclare]

I agree with OneoftheWomen, as that was the whole reason I left being a DRE this summer.
Parents want their children to receive Sacraments. To learn about what the Church REALLY teaches? Not so much. Because of their own issues and the youth are caught in the middle. Couple that with a previous pastor that would throw things and in general treat people very badly? Yeah. It was horrible. I’m now back to being a Director of Music Liturgy and RCIA. Which has its own problems and problem people. At the last RCIA session, one of the trained CAaechists said that he personally did not believe missing Mass was a mortal sin. Um…stick to what the church teaches, not personal opinion.
Then, we have a band situation that is terrible at church. I like contemporary music, but this band is really bad, the pastor hates it, and the people laugh in the pews. A very regrettable situation. But I cannot impress upon these people that they need to change their way of doing things. They think they sound fabulous! I’m going to have to ask them to stop, and it’s going to cause a huge scene. Dreading it. But the pastor asked me to do it, and he’s right. Nothing against them, they are nice people…but the Mass needs to have appropriate music, appropriately executed. It’s not really a matter of forgiveness, it’s often a matter of people HOARDING their ministries. But…that’s a topic for another thread, I suppose.

 

[Duesenberg]

Then, we have a band situation that is terrible at church. I like contemporary music, but this band is really bad, the pastor hates it, and the people laugh in the pews. A very regrettable situation. But I cannot impress upon these people that they need to change their way of doing things. They think they sound fabulous! I’m going to have to ask them to stop, and it’s going to cause a huge scene. Dreading it. But the pastor asked me to do it, and he’s right.

Your pastor should deal with this matter. It’s called “leadership.”

Dealing with this also shouldn’t cause “a huge scene.”

 

[pianistclare]

His idea of handling it is to have me, the paid person in charge of them, handle it. It’s fine, I can do it, but music is one of the beautiful things…and I hate to see it devolve into inappropriateness.
The scene is because, as in many parishes their friends will take side through their offertory envelopes. Pastor has suggested that we trade off…two weekends them 2 weekends me and my more classically trained cantors. Which doesn’t exactly solve the problem, just lessens their exposure. We’ll see. We have a meeting on Weds.
Sorry to derail the thread.

 

[Casilda]

What does that mean exactly? Physically avoid them as best as possible?

It means pray for them. Not necessarily avoid them but definitely don’t be a part of what they are involved in. I find problematic people love to be a part of everything, they volunteer for everything and are so stretched out all they do is complain. I just smile and wave and keep moving.

 

[Duesenberg]

It means pray for them. Not necessarily avoid them but definitely don’t be a part of what they are involved in. I find problematic people love to be a part of everything, they volunteer for everything and are so stretched out all they do is complain. I just smile and wave and keep moving.

OK, thanks.

I find that often time people won’t get involved with something at church if a problematic person is in charge or if they are merely “part of the team.”

I don’t smile and wave, but I certainly don’t make a big deal over ignoring them.

 

[Casilda]

I don’t smile and wave, but I certainly don’t make a big deal over ignoring them.

Read Romans 12, especially verses 17-21. In our kindness towards our enemies we have a hope of breaking their cycle of evil pettiness. We will therefore gain a brother or being confronted with an image of Christ reflected from us, they will reap coals unto themselves.

 

[pianistclare]

Thre’s a lot of condemnation here on the boards. A constant stream of “Is this liturgical abuse?” “my priests did this, or didn’t do this” all kinds of finger pointing.
People apparently like to do it or feel somehow justified in doing it.
Why?
You’d have to ask them.

 

[Horton]

pianistclare4h
Thre’s a lot of condemnation here on the boards. A constant stream of “Is this liturgical abuse?” “my priests did this, or didn’t do this” all kinds of finger pointing.
People apparently like to do it or feel somehow justified in doing it.
Why?
You’d have to ask them

pianistclare23h
I agree with OneoftheWomen, as that was the whole reason I left being a DRE this summer.
Parents want their children to receive Sacraments. To learn about what the Church REALLY teaches? Not so much. Because of their own issues and the youth are caught in the middle. Couple that with a previous pastor that would throw things and in general treat people very badly? Yeah. It was horrible. I’m now back to being a Director of Music Liturgy and RCIA. Which has its own problems and problem people. At the last RCIA session, one of the trained CAaechists said that he personally did not believe missing Mass was a mortal sin. Um…stick to what the church teaches, not personal opinion.
Then, we have a band situation that is terrible at church. I like contemporary music, but this band is really bad, the pastor hates it, and the people laugh in the pews. A very regrettable situation. But I cannot impress upon these people that they need to change their way of doing things. They think they sound fabulous! I’m going to have to ask them to stop, and it’s going to cause a huge scene. Dreading it. But the pastor asked me to do it, and he’s right. Nothing against them, they are nice people…but the Mass needs to have appropriate music, appropriately executed. It’s not really a matter of forgiveness, it’s often a matter of people HOARDING their ministries. But…that’s a topic for another thread, I suppose.

You mean like this?

 

[pianistclare]

You would rather have people laughing at the Lamb of God? Really???

You agree that a RCIA catechist should tell people it’s just FINE to miss Mass?

You believe kids should just receive Sacraments with no instruction?

I’m not talking about dissing people who are doing good, I’m talking about the EGO driven volunteers.

 

[Duesenberg]

This is what happens when a Priest and or Bishop lets the lay people with deep pockets into those power and control positions, instead of picking humble people who may not be as knowledgable in a field and giving them the room to learn and grow so that they can be, they end up picking the rich donors, or the busy bodies, and most of the time priests do not want to rock the boat or are too busy to see what is really going on. It is easier to just find a better parish than waste time in a bad one. Or don’t bother with the politics and games of the parish and just attend the mass for celebrating the Eucharist, take the spiritual benefits and let everyone else fester in their own self righteousness and pompousness. pompousnessity.

That’s actually good advice. In a sense that means that things will never improve at the parish (sans an effective new pastor with great faith, drive, determination and people skills), but engaging in a parish outside of the required sacraments is often at great peril to one’s faith.

 

[Horton]

Those are your words, not mine. You complain about folks in your parish in very uncharitable ways, then claim the holier than thou attitude in another post a short time later.

I just pointed it out.

 

[pianistclare]

I am the paid person whom the pastor has said to fix a problem he has with them. You are the one who decided to be critical of the person called upon to repair the situation.
The truth is never uncharitable.

 

[Horton]

And more often than not, the priest of a parish is committed to the souls of those in his parish, while treating all equally, and takes his role as parish leader quite seriously. Not to mention having a Bishop who is a good & holy man, doing his very best to lead the diocese in the way of Christ.

I am fortunate to work for such a priest in an office with several other staff and many volunteers and deep pockets, power, and control positions are just not a part of what we do. We have a secretary who greets every caller or visitor with a warm welcome and a true heart of service. We have volunteers come in daily to complete some task or another.

With only two paid RE staff, one the DRE and the other myself, the director of youth & young adult ministry, we are able to serve several hundred kids from K through college with very willing volunteers. We have a robust RCIA program lead by a deacon and his wife.

Maybe if folks would start looking at what works rather than the all the negativity, be solution focused rather than problem finding, your parish could become a much better place.

 

[Horton]

Then maybe as the “paid person” on staff you should keep issues like that to yourself. What you said about others in your parish is extremely uncharitable. It doesn’t matter what your role is.

As the music director how did you let a musical group get so out of hand that you have to now tell them they can’t play anymore?

If volunteers in my ministry go off the rails, first it is my job to get them back on and if it comes the point the priest must tell me to take care of it, then I haven’t done the job the parish pays me to do. It’s all on me.

 

[pianistclare]

I only started there this month. Is that ok with you?

 

[Horton]

I started my position in July but from day one it was my responsibility. I am accountable for that ministry. No excuses!

I done with this conversation with you.