If your goal is to give your work and your very self in the service of others, no problem. Giving yourself in the service of others is the only way to find true fulfillment and happiness.But you see, in pursuing your interests via the use of your unique abilities, your creation can be a gift to others.
No, the goal is the work. The service to others is a byproduct. So I guess we still have a problem.If your goal is to give your work and your very self in the service of others, no problem.
Thats never been more than hypothetical for me. Experientially speaking, when I try to please others, I feel taxed and unfulfilled. When I stick to what I want and love, everyone ends up happy, and the happiness is not fleeting.If you seek only your own happiness, you will not attain it. If you give yourself for the good of others, you will attain the true happiness even without seeking it.
I guess so.No, the goal is the work. The service to others is a byproduct. So I guess we still have a problem.
I’m not talking about pleasing, but serving. A flatterer often pleases, but rarely serves.Experientially speaking, when I try to please others, I feel taxed and unfulfilled.
I’ll rephrase:I’m not talking about pleasing, but serving. A flatterer often pleases, but rarely serves.
No doubt you feel taxed. Whether you feel unfulfilled is not a good indicator whether you are being fulfilled.When I give myself for the good of others, I feel taxed and unfulfilled.
All that matters to me is how I feel. If I can not feel the fulfillment, if I can not feel the true happiness that the action claims to merit, then it is irrelevant to me. What I can not experience does not concern me.No doubt you feel taxed. Whether you feel unfulfilled is not a good indicator whether you are being fulfilled.
That’s going to be a problem for you. Feelings are fleeting.All that matters to me is how I feel.
I didn’t say you wouldn’t experience it. I said feelings are not a good indicator.What I can not experience does not concern me.
The ultimate goal is and will always be self-preservation. All Christian doctrine has as its root self-interest. As a Christian, you must concern yourself with the good of others, not because of what they can experience in heaven, but because of what you can experience in heaven.Giving ourselves in love to others here is only practice for eternity. It will never end; we are created in the image of the holy Trinity.
Thanks for an honest and unbiased post.I have contended that, in some ways, Christianity is one of the most selfish religions in the world, we are just much more long-term in our selfishness than others.
For example, one reads of people who have gone without in the short-term (i.e. the guy who starts a small business and all his money goes to that business and he lives like a pauper) in order to prosper in the long-term (that business becomes a global conglomerate and our man who sacrificed so much is now a multi-billionaire).
For Christians, the short-term is our Earthly life, but the long-term is eternity. Look at the most pious of Saints who suffered greatly for their faith and did much for others. In the short-term, their life was tough, but in the long-term, they are in Heaven. In the judgment of the goats and sheep, the goats are sent to Hell for ignoring the poor, imprisoned, orphans, etc., while the sheep who tended to the needs of the “least of these” are Saved. At the simplest level, why should we care about helping the “least of these” except that we want to avoid Hell/enter Heaven (regardless of how you phrase it: desiring to avoid Hell or desiring to enter Heaven, it’s six of one and half a dozen of the other).
Even going the beyond minimum (adhering to the evangelical counsels, doing more than just the minimum, doing self-sacrificial acts, etc.) is about either:
Martyrdom is the ultimate expression of this long-term self-interest. Sure, being killed and tortured sucks, but Hell (the punishment for renouncing your faith) sucks even more.
- Ensuring one’s entry into Heaven
- Meriting greater reward in Heaven (akin to the person who makes sacrifices in the short-term so that they are wealthy later on)
After all, would anyone really care anymore if there were no Hell and everyone would be treated the same in Heaven?
Not the feelings I speak of.That’s going to be a problem for you. Feelings are fleeting.
No, not really. Heaven is freely giving oneself in love to others. This is the only true happiness.The ultimate goal is and will always be self-preservation. All Christian doctrine has as its root self-interest. As a Christian, you must concern yourself with the good of others, not because of what they can experience in heaven, but because of what you can experience in heaven.
Is it really freely, at least here on Earth? After all, the other choice is Hell.No, not really. Heaven is freely giving oneself in love to others. This is the only true happiness.
Yes, the other choice is choosing not to give oneself in love to others.the other choice is Hell.
What other motivation is there to giving oneself in love to others other than avoidance of Hell/attainment of Heaven? Also, what do you mean by “giving oneself in love to others”?Yes, the other choice is choosing not to give oneself in love to others.
You make it sound as if heaven is something other than loving and hell is something other than not loving. They’re not really. Heaven is communion with God and his saints, hell is refusal of that communion.What other motivation is there to giving oneself in love to others other than avoidance of Hell/attainment of Heaven?
Pope Benedict XVI has a nifty series of encyclicals on the subject, starting with this one.Also, what do you mean by “giving oneself in love to others”?
Perhaps you can clarify how these questions are relevant, since no one has said anything of the sort?Why would someone go through the pains of brutal death as a martyr if they could deny their faith AND still enter into Heaven? Why would someone spend their life serving others at the expense of themselves if they could do whatever they wanted AND still enter Heaven?
The question itself makes absolutely no sense.If it came down to you or someone else going to Hell, who would you choose?
Jesus’ Church is formed by those devoted to giving up of themselves for sake of that other and thus defeating the Devil, the Divider. Such self-sacrifice places your soul in Heaven automatically, not Hell.The proof of the selfishness of Christianity lies in this question:
If it came down to you or someone else going to Hell, who would you choose? If you were told either you or someone else–maybe even a dear loved one–are going to suffer eternally in Hell and you pick who goes (you or them), would you honestly send yourself to Hell in lieu of them?
This hypothetical question is a rabbit hole down which nobody should go. This question proves nothing about the selfishness of Christianity since it’s a question that cannot even be asked. God doesn’t give that kind of choice where the fate of my soul would lie in somebody else’s hands or the fate of another soul would lie in my hands. It doesn’t happen, plain and simple. We all have free will and as such are free to make my own decisions and must ultimately be responsible for my own fate which is dependent on my own choices not the choices of somebody else. So if this is the best proof for objectivism then please try again.The proof of the selfishness of Christianity lies in this question:
If it came down to you or someone else going to Hell, who would you choose? If you were told either you or someone else–maybe even a dear loved one–are going to suffer eternally in Hell and you pick who goes (you or them), would you honestly send yourself to Hell in lieu of them?