How does protestant settle issues concerning enterpretation of Scriptures when these issues arise?

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wisdomseeker

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we Know that Jesus said to take to the Church. we know that is what Catholics do.

how about protestants, how do you settle those issues when discordia on Scriptures arises?

i appreciate productive discussions with truth to back up. you must speak the Truth, nothing but the Truth on this issue. no insults please.

St. Paul called the Church the “body” of Christ, not the “soul” of Christ. Bodies are visible and souls are invisible. John Salza
 
we Know that Jesus said to take to the Church. we know that is what Catholics do.

how about protestants, how do you settle those issues when discordia on Scriptures arises?

i appreciate productive discussions with truth to back up. you must speak the Truth, nothing but the Truth on this issue. no insults please.
At the parish level, LCMS pastors are expected to uphold the Lutheran Confessions as it rightly reflects scripture. The same is true as one takes their concerns to the district or synod levels. One can also go to the LCMS website’s search engine to explore synod teachings on a variety of issues.

So, were I to have a disagreement on doctrine, for example, with a fellow LCMS Lutheran, we would take it to the Church, first to our pastor, then if need be, to the district (similar to a Catholic diocese), etc.

Jon
 
At the parish level, LCMS pastors are expected to uphold the Lutheran Confessions as it rightly reflects scripture. The same is true as one takes their concerns to the district or synod levels. One can also go to the LCMS website’s search engine to explore synod teachings on a variety of issues.

So, were I to have a disagreement on doctrine, for example, with a fellow LCMS Lutheran, we would take it to the Church, first to our pastor, then if need be, to the district (similar to a Catholic diocese), etc.

Jon
hello Jon

and just how one would know which enterpretation is correct?
 
.

I think two different issues are going on…

ANY association may create policies regarding membership and conflict resolution. To my knowledge, all denominations do that (including mine). FOR THAT ASSOCIATION (club, group, organization, whatever), that applies to those IN THAT association. If I belong to the Toyota Owners’ Club and one polity is that members must own a Toyota, and I sell my Toyota, then I may no longer be a member of that organization. Now, most congregations and denominations have a creedal statement somewhere (often in their constitution) stating not only what that congregation and/or denomination believes, but also MAY require those in official membership to ascribe to such. If there is a dispute, it MAY have a prescribed way to resolve that issue, and if one is clearly in violation of the agreed-upon polity, one may be excluded from the organization. In THIS sense, it can be argued that The Catholic Church had the “right” to kick out anyone that it its own determination according to its own creedal position, could be removed (call it what you like). If that organization is the LDS and one holding official membership in that group comes to view the RCC as correct, it would be within the “rights” of the LDS to “remove” that person from the organization’s membership. It’s a whole other issue whether that person is WRONG or a non-Christian or no longer a part of CHRIST’S church - but any organization can remove anyone from it’s membership roles if such is done in comformity with the polity of that organization. In THAT sense, The Catholic Church had the “right” to remove Luther (we’re talking POWER here, nothing more). It’s a separate issue whether it did so in comfority with it’s own polity and if Luther was wrong.

The other issue is what interpretation is correct? This ASSUMES two things: First of all, that the Rule is Scripture (otherwise, interpretations don’t matter) and secondly that all teachers/interpeters are ACCOUNTABLE. Thus, the question of this thread is one that Catholics, Mormons, as well as all members of all the cults are exempt. They all reject that Scripture is the authority and that teachers are accountable. The question is MOOT coming from any of them, and frankly, I wouldn’t waste my time trying to address an issue they regard as moot. Their position is: One is correct if one says, “I’m right so I’m right, therefore I’m right so I’m right, so there. Just accept whatever I say with docility.”

For for those that regard God as the Authority (not self alone) and regard all we teachers as accountable for what we say and for what we insists God says (wasn’t it Jeremiah who stated that God has a particular distain for those who say “God says” when God said no such thing?), then the issue of correctness comes into play. As a Lutheran, I believe that we are to look to the church, for I believe that God gave His Word to the church (not exclusively to ME) and that God leads His church (not exclusively ME). This CORPORATE view of the church that Lutherans and Orthodox Christians embrace means we are not simply to look to SELF for this arbitration, but to the church. Lutherans do that for our teachings - looking to the 3 Ecumenical Creeds and the true ecumenical church councils - although, like the Orthodox, we don’t view OUR arbitrations as infallible. Our “problem” is the same as that felt by the Orthodox (whether Oriental or Eastern) - true ecumenical councils are impossible (the OO I think embraces only the first 4 - and not as infallible, the EO embraces the first 7 although again not infallible). The last true council ended around 800 if my memory off the top of my head is correct. The struggle for power between East and West, the constant attempt of the West and the Bishop of Rome to take more and more and more power, to be regarded as unaccountable, all that pretty much terminated any sense of the church as Christians and replaced it with all the ME-ism, institutionalism, denominationalism we see today. In a lot of ways, I agree with the Orthodox - Christianity was shattered, but worse, it was politicized, polerized, institutionalized, and the embrace of truth became overwhelmed by the quest for power/authority/control/lording it over others. In the absence of any possibility of a true ecumenical council, there is no clear answer for how to resolve conflicts BETWEEN various positions - only for within them. As a Lutheran, I join the Orthodox in lamenting this. We need to work to restore a sense of humility, community, accountability. We have a LOT of work to do, for I disagree with many that things got better in the 20th century, I think what is seen as improved humility and community is instead increased relativism and a lack of concern from truth. Right now, the best we can do is seek resolution on an individual level - among us - and work to form a consensus. Don’t be TOO discouraged: that’s EXACTLY how the early church did it.

.
 
Side note:

I’m fasinated by your quote wisdomseeker

Paul also writes:
Eph. 6 For our fight is not against flesh and blood, but against authorities and powers, against the world-rulers of this dark night, against the spirits of evil in the heavens.
What say you;

Are we in the middle of a spirtual battle or a battle of flesh?

back on topic… It seems to me that us christians lock ourselves into this earthly realm where scripture states we do not belong.

Who was the authority over Adam?
Abraham and Sarah?
Isaac and Jacob?

Was the Priests of Israel An Authority of what? where the priests arbators of for the people? I will have to look that up not sure for now.
I don’t think they where Kings.

Who wanted a King? Israel or God?
how about protestants, how do you settle those issues when discordia on Scriptures arises?
I think I will take it to those who I have given authority just like you have given the authority to the Catholic church.

Thos I believe God has put in place.
 
Side note:

I’m fasinated by your quote wisdomseeker

Paul also writes:

What say you;

Are we in the middle of a spirtual battle or a battle of flesh?

back on topic… It seems to me that us christians lock ourselves into this earthly realm where scripture states we do not belong.

Who was the authority over Adam?
Abraham and Sarah?
Isaac and Jacob?

Was the Priests of Israel An Authority of what? where the priests arbators of for the people? I will have to look that up not sure for now.
I don’t think they where Kings.

Who wanted a King? Israel or God?

I think I will take it to those who I have given authority just like you have given the authority to the Catholic church.

Thos I believe God has put in place.
we know that Jesus Himself selected 12 Apostles to teach all Truth. we know that teh Apostles appointed others to replace them. we Catholics call Apostolic succession: Jesus said: “as my Father sent Me, so I sent you…”

my question is how was your authorities selected. did they read the Bible and assumed their authority?
 
.

I think two different issues are going on…

ANY association may create policies regarding membership and conflict resolution. To my knowledge, all denominations do that (including mine). FOR THAT ASSOCIATION (club, group, organization, whatever), that applies to those IN THAT association. If I belong to the Toyota Owners’ Club and one polity is that members must own a Toyota, and I sell my Toyota, then I may no longer be a member of that organization. Now, most congregations and denominations have a creedal statement somewhere (often in their constitution) stating not only what that congregation and/or denomination believes, but also MAY require those in official membership to ascribe to such. If there is a dispute, it MAY have a prescribed way to resolve that issue, and if one is clearly in violation of the agreed-upon polity, one may be excluded from the organization. In THIS sense, it can be argued that The Catholic Church had the “right” to kick out anyone that it its own determination according to its own creedal position, could be removed (call it what you like). If that organization is the LDS and one holding official membership in that group comes to view the RCC as correct, it would be within the “rights” of the LDS to “remove” that person from the organization’s membership. It’s a whole other issue whether that person is WRONG or a non-Christian or no longer a part of CHRIST’S church - but any organization can remove anyone from it’s membership roles if such is done in comformity with the polity of that organization. In THAT sense, The Catholic Church had the “right” to remove Luther (we’re talking POWER here, nothing more). It’s a separate issue whether it did so in comfority with it’s own polity and if Luther was wrong.

The other issue is what interpretation is correct? This ASSUMES two things: First of all, that the Rule is Scripture (otherwise, interpretations don’t matter) and secondly that all teachers/interpeters are ACCOUNTABLE. Thus, the question of this thread is one that Catholics, Mormons, as well as all members of all the cults are exempt. They all reject that Scripture is the authority and that teachers are accountable. The question is MOOT coming from any of them, and frankly, I wouldn’t waste my time trying to address an issue they regard as moot. Their position is: One is correct if one says, “I’m right so I’m right, therefore I’m right so I’m right, so there. Just accept whatever I say with docility.”

For for those that regard God as the Authority (not self alone) and regard all we teachers as accountable for what we say and for what we insists God says (wasn’t it Jeremiah who stated that God has a particular distain for those who say “God says” when God said no such thing?), then the issue of correctness comes into play. As a Lutheran, I believe that we are to look to the church, for I believe that God gave His Word to the church (not exclusively to ME) and that God leads His church (not exclusively ME). This CORPORATE view of the church that Lutherans and Orthodox Christians embrace means we are not simply to look to SELF for this arbitration, but to the church. Lutherans do that for our teachings - looking to the 3 Ecumenical Creeds and the true ecumenical church councils - although, like the Orthodox, we don’t view OUR arbitrations as infallible. Our “problem” is the same as that felt by the Orthodox (whether Oriental or Eastern) - true ecumenical councils are impossible (the OO I think embraces only the first 4 - and not as infallible, the EO embraces the first 7 although again not infallible). The last true council ended around 800 if my memory off the top of my head is correct. The struggle for power between East and West, the constant attempt of the West and the Bishop of Rome to take more and more and more power, to be regarded as unaccountable, all that pretty much terminated any sense of the church as Christians and replaced it with all the ME-ism, institutionalism, denominationalism we see today. In a lot of ways, I agree with the Orthodox - Christianity was shattered, but worse, it was politicized, polerized, institutionalized, and the embrace of truth became overwhelmed by the quest for power/authority/control/lording it over others. In the absence of any possibility of a true ecumenical council, there is no clear answer for how to resolve conflicts BETWEEN various positions - only for within them. As a Lutheran, I join the Orthodox in lamenting this. We need to work to restore a sense of humility, community, accountability. We have a LOT of work to do, for I disagree with many that things got better in the 20th century, I think what is seen as improved humility and community is instead increased relativism and a lack of concern from truth. Right now, the best we can do is seek resolution on an individual level - among us - and work to form a consensus. Don’t be TOO discouraged: that’s EXACTLY how the early church did it.

so, you say that when you guys have an issue of discordia on Scriptures enterpretation you take to the Bible?
 
Wisdom

I think in this day of information and of knowledge. you have to admit we have more knowledge today about the 1st century available to the masses than any other time in history. To say that someone just read the bible one day and decided to start a church ( in which I cannot disagree in some cases) is a strong charge when you umbrella everyone that disagrees with you and the Catholic church as you see it.

there are many learned men who have translated Scripture done the archeological research, and have Masters of Divinity degrees. You can not even say that within the Catholic church that all leadership agrees in union with interpretation of scripture.

Those I have given athority have proven themselves worthy of that authority. I keep an open mind and challenge everything that goes into it. Including that which I read here.

on that note of apostolic session I wonder How did Enoch know what he new and to live the life he lived, to be wisked away and never seen again?
Have you not read where God told Israel to talk about him at meal times at work and play.when they got up in the morning and when they went to bed at night(my paraphrase will look it up later)? God places the responsibility on all of us not a certain few.

We are to pass along God and Christs work to our children and those around us. but I don’t think the first century church gre by the work of the Apostles alone. it was passed along by people like you and me who found freedom in the truth and shared it with those around them.

Who was in charge of the church when Paul found the women by the rivers edge? (Act 16) or was there some man there that is not mentioned? I find no mention of a scolding because there was no bishop, priest or man leader there. Why wouln’t that be important to Luke if a man was required to be there for a proper service/Mass if you will.

session of information and teaching I is no problem for me, but I’m going to test it against the best information and evidence I can find.

Sorry I get to rambling some times. i’m not sure that answers your question. just probably creates more.
 
=wisdomseeker;6341925]
=AmericanJosiah;6341851]
.
For for those that regard God as the Authority (not self alone) and regard all we teachers as accountable for what we say and for what we insists God says (wasn’t it Jeremiah who stated that God has a particular distain for those who say “God says” when God said no such thing?), then the issue of correctness comes into play. **As a Lutheran, I believe that we are to look to the church, for I believe that God gave His Word to the church (not exclusively to ME) and that God leads His church (not exclusively ME). This CORPORATE view of the church that Lutherans and Orthodox Christians embrace means we are not simply to look to SELF for this arbitration, but to the church. Lutherans do that for our teachings - looking to the 3 Ecumenical Creeds and the true ecumenical church councils - although, like the Orthodox, we don’t view OUR arbitrations as infallible. **
Our “problem” is the same as that felt by the Orthodox (whether Oriental or Eastern) - true ecumenical councils are impossible (the OO I think embraces only the first 4 - and not as infallible, the EO embraces the first 7 although again not infallible). The last true council ended around 800 if my memory off the top of my head is correct. The struggle for power between East and West, the constant attempt of the West and the Bishop of Rome to take more and more and more power, to be regarded as unaccountable, all that pretty much terminated any sense of the church as Christians and replaced it with all the ME-ism, institutionalism, denominationalism we see today. In a lot of ways, I agree with the Orthodox - Christianity was shattered, but worse, it was politicized, polerized, institutionalized, and the embrace of truth became overwhelmed by the quest for power/authority/control/lording it over others. In the absence of any possibility of a true ecumenical council, there is no clear answer for how to resolve conflicts BETWEEN various positions - only for within them. As a Lutheran, I join the Orthodox in lamenting this. We need to work to restore a sense of humility, community, accountability. We have a LOT of work to do, for I disagree with many that things got better in the 20th century, I think what is seen as improved humility and community is instead increased relativism and a lack of concern from truth. Right now, the best we can do is seek resolution on an individual level - among us - and work to form a consensus. Don’t be TOO discouraged: that’s EXACTLY how the early church did it.

so, you say that when you guys have an issue of discordia on Scriptures enterpretation you take to the Bible?

Wisdom, where did you get this question from what AJ said above?
He said: *As a Lutheran, I believe that we are to look to the church, for I believe that God gave His Word to the church (not exclusively to ME) and that God leads His church (not exclusively ME). This CORPORATE view of the church that Lutherans and Orthodox Christians embrace means we are not simply to look to SELF for this arbitration, but to the church. *

I think you are looking for an individual interpretation approach that you won’t find in Lutheranism.

Jon
 
so, you say that when you guys have an issue of discordia on Scriptures enterpretation you take to the Bible?
Actually I take it to a compiled source of information that is the best evidence to evaluate what God wants.

With all of the informational resources available to me thru this computer are you saying that I am incompentant in finding the meaning and being able to understand what has been compiled in the Bible.

If the Holy Spirit wants me to know will he not show me. And please don’t go into the 30 or 300,000 church diatribe. I believe God will atract who he wishes thru the Holy spirit and just because the Catholic church isn’t there i don;t think that will stop him.
 
Wisdom

I think in this day of information and of knowledge. you have to admit we have more knowledge today about the 1st century available to the masses than any other time in history. To say that someone just read the bible one day and decided to start a church ( in which I cannot disagree in some cases) is a strong charge when you umbrella everyone that disagrees with you and the Catholic church as you see it.

there are many learned men who have translated Scripture done the archeological research, and have Masters of Divinity degrees. You can not even say that within the Catholic church that all leadership agrees in union with interpretation of scripture.

Those I have given athority have proven themselves worthy of that authority. I keep an open mind and challenge everything that goes into it. Including that which I read here.

on that note of apostolic session I wonder How did Enoch know what he new and to live the life he lived, to be wisked away and never seen again?
Have you not read where God told Israel to talk about him at meal times at work and play.when they got up in the morning and when they went to bed at night(my paraphrase will look it up later)? God places the responsibility on all of us not a certain few.

We are to pass along God and Christs work to our children and those around us. but I don’t think the first century church gre by the work of the Apostles alone. it was passed along by people like you and me who found freedom in the truth and shared it with those around them.

Who was in charge of the church when Paul found the women by the rivers edge? (Act 16) or was there some man there that is not mentioned? I find no mention of a scolding because there was no bishop, priest or man leader there. Why wouln’t that be important to Luke if a man was required to be there for a proper service/Mass if you will.

session of information and teaching I is no problem for me, but I’m going to test it against the best information and evidence I can find.

Sorry I get to rambling some times. i’m not sure that answers your question. just probably creates more.
here goes again. how do your authorities got their authority? did they read the Bible and assumed their authority? or were they one of the Apostles or ones appointed by the Apostles?
 
here goes again. how do your authorities got their authority? did they read the Bible and assumed their authority? or were they one of the Apostles or ones appointed by the Apostles?
Your question assumes that authority of pastors and bishops only comes through Apostolic Succession. Nothing in scripture says so. While AS is desirable and valuable, it does not exclude others from the call. Afterall, presbyter ordination has, in the past been practiced even in the Catholic Church.

Jon
 
Your question assumes that authority of pastors and bishops only comes through Apostolic Succession. Nothing in scripture says so. While AS is desirable and valuable, it does not exclude others from the call. Afterall, presbyter ordination has, in the past been practiced even in the Catholic Church.

Jon
and just how else do they come? how do they get such authority? do they get it when they read the Bible?

was there such a practice in the beginning?
 
Wisdom said
and just how else do they come? how do they get such authority? do they get it when they read the Bible?
was there such a practice in the beginning?
What beginning are you talking about? The beginning of the world?

who call Abram? Moses? Ruth and Ester? How about David? the Judges? the prophets? Noah?

How about the Apostle Paul? it wasn’t Peter. maybe it was one of the other disciples who called from the light?

yes i’m being a smarty pants, and I know it. But your question makes no logical sense to me with God in charge. You have locked God into a box that I don’t think he can fit. 1 minute I read posts that say that God can do anything he wants to because he is God and then I read posts like this.

what I say, i am saying about myself as a human being. We tend to throw God into a box and throw away the key when he is the holder of the key. God is the Creator and we are the created not the other way around. Because of this fact,God can do anything he pleases.

God can use all of us, to his Glory, if we just let him.

my rant is over now thank you
 
by the way all authority comes from God and God alone.
that is what Jesus said,. and He gave directly to the Apostles and their successors. how those authority over you got their authority? when reading the Bible?

was this practice done from the beginning of the Church? what writings do you have that this practice was done centuries ago before 1500s.?
 
do they get it when they read the Bible?
Not sure where this comes from. I read the Bible, and that does not bestow upon me an ordination of any sort. The Church does this. My dad, for example: 7 years of schooling, called and ordained by the Church into the sacred ministry. Reading the Bible is neither a calling or an ordination.
and just how else do they come? how do they get such authority?
was there such a practice in the beginning?
The authority comes from the Church, handed down to the Church by Christ Himself. Local Churches have always had the power to ordain, by divine law.

Jon
 
Not sure where this comes from. I read the Bible, and that does not bestow upon me an ordination of any sort. The Church does this. My dad, for example: 7 years of schooling, called and ordained by the Church into the sacred ministry. Reading the Bible is neither a calling or an ordination.

The authority comes from the Church, handed down to the Church by Christ Himself. Local Churches have always had the power to ordain, by divine law.

Jon
yes, that is how is done in teh CC, but were they ordained by the CC?
 
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