How does the Catholic Church know when a saint reaches heaven?

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On a different thread, a Catholic whom I highly respect made the following comment:

“**We shouldn’t presume that someone inside the Church is saved either. We do not have a clue who is saved, except maybe when the Church canonizes a saint because that is an official Church declaration that the person is in heaven… **”"

Since I didn’t want to risk hijacking that thread in a different direction, I decided to start a new one and ask my question.

My reasoning, known to be quite fallible:
I always presumed that we could “hope” someone is in heaven, we could “feel” they are in heaven, we could “assume” by their faith and how they lived their life that they are in heaven, or we could justify in our minds why we think they made heaven, or we can pray they made it to heaven, but we do not know beyond the shadow of a doubt that anyone is in heaven.

Just curious how the Catholic Church definitively knows that a person reached heaven, to the point they can canonize that person, especially when Purgatory is also a possibility for him or her, according to my limited understanding of Catholicism.

Question:
Does the Holy Spirit give the Pope a word of wisdom, is it voted on by the Council of Bishops or some other Church body, or is there some other process that gives the power to the Catholic Church to discern or otherwise determine that someone has reached heaven to the point that they can make a declaration about it?

If so, I would appreciate it if someone can help explain how that process works to this respectful non-Catholic? Much appreciated, as always.
 
Tommy999 said:
On a different thread, a Catholic whom I highly respect made the following comment:

"We shouldn’t presume that someone inside the Church is saved either. We do not have a clue who is saved, except maybe when the Church canonizes a saint because that is an official Church declaration that the person is in heaven… “”

Since I didn’t want to risk hijacking that thread in a different direction, I decided to start a new one and ask my question.

My reasoning, known to be quite fallible:
I always presumed that we could “hope” someone is in heaven, we could “feel” they are in heaven, we could “assume” by their faith and how they lived their life that they are in heaven, or we could justify in our minds why we think they made heaven, or we can pray they made it to heaven, but we do not know beyond the shadow of a doubt that anyone is in heaven.

Just curious how the Catholic Church definitively knows that a person reached heaven, to the point they can canonize that person, especially when Purgatory is also a possibility for him or her, according to my limited understanding of Catholicism.

Question:
Does the Holy Spirit give the Pope a word of wisdom, is it voted on by the Council of Bishops or some other Church body, or is there some other process that gives the power to the Catholic Church to discern or otherwise determine that someone has reached heaven to the point that they can make a declaration about it?

If so, I would appreciate it if someone can help explain how that process works to this respectful non-Catholic? Much appreciated, as always.
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Short answer:

First stage: individual is declared a ‘servant of God’

Second stage: individual is called ‘venerable’

Third stage (requires a miracle attributed to candidate’s intercession):
beatification, when individual is declared blessed

Fourth stage (requires a further authenticated miracle): candidate is
canonized as a saint for veneration by Church.

Longer answer:
ewtn.com/johnpaul2/cause/process.asp

Obviously there are parts of this that will probably give you trouble, but this is the process.
 
Wesrock said:
It’s a very meticulous review process. These articles may help:

ewtn.com/johnpaul2/cause/process.asp

dummies.com/religion/christianity/catholicism/the-canonization-process-for-sainthood/
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Thanks, Wesrock and ajcstr. Very helpful in explaining the process, especially this portion:

"*By the Rite of Canonization the Supreme Pontiff, by an act which is protected from error by the Holy Spirit, elevates a person to the universal veneration of the Church. By canonization the Pope does not make the person a saint. Rather, he declares that the person is with God and is an example of following Christ worthy of imitation by the faithful. " *

This confirms my assumptions that voting is involved by those in authority and that the Pope makes the final declaration. I’m glad the article clarifies that the Pope doesn’t actually make a person a saint, but in effect recognizes the person already is one, if I understand correctly.

The process sounds like it involves tribunals and lots of study and is very methodical. Being a Methodist, “methodical” isn’t necessarily a bad word. 🙂
 
Tommy999 said:
Thanks, Wesrock and ajcstr.
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Glad to be of help!
I’m glad the article clarifies that the Pope doesn’t actually make a person a saint, but in effect recognizes the person already is one, if I understand correctly.
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You understand correctly. The only thing that changes is the Church’s universal recognition of the individual as a saint. The Pope’s declaration doesn’t magically move him or her to heaven. There very well might be many others who are saints already, even if not formally recognized as such by the Church. (Recognized doesn’t feel like the correct term in this last sense; it might be better to state “there might be many others whose sainthood hasn’t been revealed to the Church”).

And much of the reason for the process is in determining whether public veneration/honoring of the saint (such as in naming a Church after him or her) is appropriate. This can be very meaningful on a local level.
 
There is also the ancient and still embraced method of public groundswell and acclamation of one who is recognized for their saintliness. This is “official” when the bishop or Bishops add the person or persons to the Liturgical Calendar, and Liturgies are celebrated in Commemoration. Its both a top down and bottom up recognition.
 
Wesrock said:
Glad to be of help!

You understand correctly. The only thing that changes is the Church’s universal recognition of the individual as a saint. The Pope’s declaration doesn’t magically move him or her to heaven. There very well might be many others who are saints already, even if not formally recognized as such by the Church. (Recognized doesn’t feel like the correct term in this last sense; it might be better to state “there might be many others whose sainthood hasn’t been revealed to the Church”).

And much of the reason for the process is in determining whether public veneration/honoring of the saint (such as in naming a Church after him or her) is appropriate. This can be very meaningful on a local level.
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Thanks for the added clarifications, Wesrock. They helped a lot and make sense to me.
 
SyroMalankara said:
There is also the ancient and still embraced method of public groundswell and acclamation of one who is recognized for their saintliness. This is “official” when the bishop or Bishops add the person or persons to the Liturgical Calendar, and Liturgies are celebrated in Commemoration. Its both a top down and bottom up recognition.
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Hi SyroMalankara,
Good to know that those in authority recognize the bottom up groundswell of the faithful when considering who to nominate for recognition.
 
Realizing too that everyone in heaven is part of the communion of saints. But I guess you knew that. Some of us may never get our mugs on a holy card or have a date in the calendar, but just getting a toe in the door will be good for me!!! 😉
 
pianistclare said:
Realizing too that everyone in heaven is part of the communion of saints. But I guess you knew that. Some of us may never get our mugs on a holy card or have a date in the calendar, but just getting a toe in the door will be good for me!!! 😉
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I can definitely relate to that, Clare. I’ll be happy with Purgatory if that is my fate because that means I will eventually (hopefully sooner than later) be in heaven, if I understand the concept correctly.

I also sense that Wesrock’s comment about “there might be many others whose sainthood hasn’t been revealed to the Church” yet is probably true, as well.
 
Tommy999 said:
I can definitely relate to that, Clare. I’ll be happy with Purgatory if that is my fate because that means I will eventually (hopefully sooner than later) be in heaven, if I understand the concept correctly.

I also sense that Wesrock’s comment about “there might be many others whose sainthood hasn’t been revealed to the Church” yet is probably true, as well.
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Oh yeah. there are several mystics that people love that are “hold” so to speak.
 
Tommy999 said:
I’m glad the article clarifies that the Pope doesn’t actually make a person a saint, but in effect recognizes the person already is one, if I understand correctly.
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Oh wow, never even considered that view. The Pope does NOT determine a person’s eternal state. By all means, you are correct, it is a recognition.
 
The best confirmation that they are in heaven to me is that two miracles must be verified resulting from their prayers in heaven.
I presume that the Church requires two such miracles, in some part, to remove doubt by men about this.
 
mdgspencer said:
The best confirmation that they are in heaven to me is that two miracles must be verified resulting from their prayers in heaven.
I presume that the Church requires two such miracles, in some part, to remove doubt by men about this.
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That is correct. The Congregation for Saints Causes is very thorough in doing its research. Pope John Paul II is a recent example. Depending on the type of miracle, like a healing, it is examined in great detail and all medical records are reviewed and interviews with those involved are conducted. And it needs to be a full cure or remission that is lasting. In fact, an internal discussion occurs where someone acts as an opposing interrogator who asks questions to help make sure all details are covered and any remaining questions are answered.

Ed
 
These days the Saint probably sends an email to the Vatican - “Having a wonderful time! Wish you were here!”
 
ajcstr said:
Oh wow, never even considered that view. The Pope does NOT determine a person’s eternal state. By all means, you are correct, it is a recognition.
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I wonder about the whole saint business. The Apostle Paul addresses his letters to the churches indicating the saints in them were alive!?
 
Wannano said:
I wonder about the whole saint business. The Apostle Paul addresses his letters to the churches indicating the saints in them were alive!?
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What do you mean? Can you elaborate on this?

Peace!!!
 
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