How does the Church define Virginity?

[LawyersGunsAndMoney]

So, It sounds like I was half a virgin when I got married.

I don’t mean to be crude here, but…who cares? You recognized any sins you committed and confessed them. You’re good. You don’t get a gold star for fitting this or that definition of virginity.

As long as you have confessed any past sins and are being faithful to your husband, who cares? People can get really unhealthy fixations around “purity” and have this notion that anyone who has ever messed up sexually is somehow damaged goods.

 

[SerraSemper]

Again, the requirements for a consecrated virgin will not necessarily align with the requirements for moral virginity.

 

[Bernoulli]

Even when sins are forgiven through absolution, all consequences of sin are not eliminated. In particular, past sins may still have an impact on the choice of vocations: whether someone will be considered for priesthood, a religious order or a marriage with a particular spouse.

The virginity of the bride has a sublime value in the natural order, and that’s why it could be elevated as a symbol or a type of the supernatural order: “For I am jealous of you with the jealousy of God. For I have espoused you to one husband that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.” (2 Cor 11)

In this passage, the value of the natural order is presumed in order to comprehend the spiritual message. The same structure is used to teach other truths of the faith, too: “If I have spoken to you earthly things, and you believe not; how will you believe, if I shall speak to you heavenly things?” (John 3) For example, understanding the concept of the father of the natural family is needed to receive the concept of God the Father or a priest as a spiritual father.

In the end, virginity is only one factor to consider in a potential spouse. How important it should be regarded is a matter of prudential judgment. However, it is a relevant factor with respect to the nature of marriage.

 

[SerraSemper]

I believe you are mistaken in your interpretation of that Scripture verse on the virgin -bride. It is referring to the Church as Virgin-Bride. The woman getting married does not symbolize the Church as virgin-bride- that is the privilege of the consecrated virgins. Rather, the woman getting married - virgin or not - is taking on the image of the Church’s fecundity.

 

[Bernoulli]

The woman getting married does not symbolize the Church as virgin-bride- that is the privilege of the consecrated virgins.

I did not say that. I said that the fact there even is the concept of the Church as the virginal bride is based on the natural order of the value of virginity. If there is no natural order, using the virginal bride as a type does not make sense.

 

[SerraSemper]

The concept of the virginal Church (A Church that is simultaneously virgin and mother) is not from nature but from super-nature. That is, it is a construct of God Himself, and a mystery that something can be both virgin and mother. Physically this is signified perfectly only in Mary who was both Virgin and Mother. While it is lovely and commendable that a woman be a virgin when she gets married if it is her first marriage, it is not an essential element of marriage. She gets married in order to signify the Church’s maternity not virginity. One cannot say that for the brief instant that a woman gets married she is somehow substantially an image of a permanent characteristic of the Church, namely virginity. The Virgin Church is permanently a virgin… Thus her sign of the virgin-bride is the consecrated virgin. The reason why the Church as Virgin-Bride and the Consecrated Virgin as Virgin-Bride has value is because of supernatural reasons, not natural.

I should add that a common Protestant or Pagan viewpoint of virginity is lacking in respect to the dignity of the person when they desire the physical sign of virginity to the point of objectifying the woman. Many pagans want to get surgery to physically “recover” virginity because they could be killed or divorced by men who value or fetishize that aspect more than their personhood. Many stigmatize those who have lost their virginity as singles as “damaged goods”. Damaged for whom?! The men who want a “fresh” woman. Women, virgins or not, have inherent dignity as human beings. I am not saying that it is not desirable for people to marry virgins or to be a virgin when getting married. What I am saying is that there are far too many people out there who feel entitled to marrying a virgin or who have some twisted idea on that subject.

 

[Bernoulli]

God the Father is prior to the natural fatherhood, but from the point of view of human beings, the concept of natural fatherhood is the way to understand the concept of God the Father, the natural acts as a kind of a pedagogical tool. In order to teach the supernatural, the natural order is presumed.

Marriage is an institution of the natural order, and the virginity of the bride has a sublime value in that. This order is presumed in order to teach the supernatural, and the supernatural concept would not make sense without the natural concept.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

It’d be something to truly lament if you wanted to receive its crown or wanted to be a state of perpetual virginity, which usually doesn’t occur in a marriage.

 

[SerraSemper]

Marriage is an institution of the natural order, and the virginity of the bride has a sublime value in that. This order is presumed in order to teach the supernatural, and the supernatural concept would not make sense without the natural concept.

Marriage is a natural institution. It is also a supernatural institution for those parties who are both baptized, in which a sacrament modeled after the union of Christ and the Church is given. Virginity has no “sublime value” for the bride of a natural marriage aside from evidence that someone kept the commandments. Likewise for sacramental marriage, the married reflect the “fecundity” not the “virginity” of the Church. Therefore, there is no proper imaging of the virginity of the Church as virgin-bride in a human sacramental marriage.

Perhaps the easiest way of explaining why the physical virginity of a bride-to-be is not an adequate symbol of the Virgin-Church is because the Church does not normally consider a woman who is engaged to get married as having the virtue of virginity even if she is factually a virgin. Certainly she can be a chaste woman or a virgin-woman, but she doesn’t possess the virtue of virginity if she intends to consummate the marriage. And if she doesn’t possess the virtue of virginity, then she doesn’t represent the Church in the Church’s perpetual virginity in any substantial way.

Here’s a quote from Sacra Virginitas that might help:
12. Here also it must be added, as the Fathers and Doctors of the Church have clearly taught, that virginity is not a Christian virtue unless we embrace it “for the kingdom of heaven;”[14] that is, unless we take up this way of life precisely to be able to devote ourselves more freely to divine things to attain heaven more surely, and with skillful efforts to lead others more readily to the kingdom of heaven.

Notice that virginity is not a virtue unless it is supernatural. There is no natural virtue of virginity (and therefore one can’t make the argument that there is sublime sign value of the female bride who happens to be a virgin). Chastity is the natural virtue, not virginity.

 

[Norseman82]

Well, from what I’ve seen posted here and on other Catholic websites, people try to add other requirements to virginity (such as masturbation/porn use, lustful thoughts, etc.) as a means to silence and shame virgins (especially male virgins) who also want their spouse to be virgins.

If you read 1 Corinthians, St. Paul refers to fornication as a sin in a special class by itself to be avoided, comparing it to physically uniting with a prostitute. It is the physical union that makes it so serious.

 

[SerraSemper]

Well, from what I’ve seen posted here and on other Catholic websites, people try to add other requirements to virginity (such as masturbation/porn use, lustful thoughts, etc.) as a means to silence and shame virgins (especially male virgins) who also want their spouse to be virgins.

Masturbation, porn use, lustful thoughts, etc. do destroy virginity. It’s not a tool to “shame” males; it’s merely a fact. However, thoughts may be repented and virginity recovered. But not sins that involve venereal pleasure + consent. Repentance restores chastity but not virginity. And porn addiction can be extremely destructive to a marriage/attempted marriage whether it be on the part of males or females.

 

[LawyersGunsAndMoney]

Well, from what I’ve seen posted here and on other Catholic websites, people try to add other requirements to virginity (such as masturbation/porn use, lustful thoughts, etc.) as a means to silence and shame virgins (especially male virgins) who also want their spouse to be virgins.

“Shame” is probably the wrong word, but men who are really hung up on their future spouse’s virginity oftentimes do seem to have a kind of unhealthy fixation on purity, with the implication that people can somehow be “spoiled.”

I totally get it if someone says “I want to marry someone who shares my commitment to sexual ethics”, of course. But that could just as easily be someone who had premarital sex, recognized that they messed up, confessed it, and amended their life going forward.

 

[GordonP]

but men who are really hung up on their future spouse’s virginity oftentimes do seem to have a kind of unhealthy fixation on purity, with the implication that people can somehow be “spoiled.”

The phrases I’ve heard used by such men are “used goods” and “sloppy seconds”. Makes me sick that they think of women this way.

 

[LawyersGunsAndMoney]

The phrases I’ve heard used by such men are “used goods” and “sloppy seconds”. Makes me sick that they think of women this way.

Yeah, it’s got a creepy vibe to me. Like the woman they’re going to marry is a porcelain doll they’re going to put under glass or something.

Again, if a man/woman is a virgin on their wedding night, awesome. But if you wouldn’t be just as satisfied knowing that your spouse was going to be faithful going forward and had confessed any past sins, it makes me wonder what’s up.