How does the Church determine grave matter?

[baylee]

I am a devout Catholic, but I do have to say that I wonder how the Church determines which sins involve grave matter. Not to get into the topic of masturbation again, but it does seem odd that masturbation would be on par with murder (for example).

 

[Sir_Knight]

Ten Commandments would be a good place to start and masturbation would fall under #6.

 

[baylee]

Ten Commandments would be a good place to start and masturbation would fall under #6.

Yes, I understand that the Catechism defines grave matter as coming from the Ten Commandments…but so does less serious matters. Lying is an example of a sin where it can be serious or not so serious. I want to know how the Church determines which of these sins involve grave matter. Again, it seems strange that masturbation is on the same level as murder…and that is just one example where it doesn’t seem to make sense. Is there some discussion in Canon Law?

 

[Sir_Knight]

If you look at Genesis 38:9-10, you’ll see that Onan “spilled his seed” (masturbated) and the punishment for it was death because God took his life for it as a result. The punishment for that sin was the SAME as for murder – thus placing it in the same class of sins (mortal sin) as murder. This is not to say that it is as serious as murder but based upon what happened in the bible, it is serious enough (punishment = death) to be a mortal sin.

 

[baylee]

If you look at Genesis 38:9-10, you’ll see that Onan “spilled his seed” (masturbated) and the punishment for it was death because God took his life for it as a result. The punishment for that sin was the SAME as for murder – thus placing it in the same class of sins (mortal sin) as murder. This is not to say that it is as serious as murder but based upon what happened in the bible, it is serious enough (punishment = death) to be a mortal sin.

But the Catechism does not reference this Bible story when it discusses masturbation; therefore, I do not believe it is the basis for the teachings. In fact, the Catechism never refers to this Bible story (and that is why it surprises me that it is mentioned on this site as much as it is).

And again, I am only using masturbation vs murder as an example for my general question. I am looking to find out how the Church determines which sins involve grave matter and which ones do not. Is there nothing out there that explains this? If you do not know, that’s fine…perhaps someone else does…

 

[teachccd]

Lets say that I give you a top of the line guitar as a gift. With that I would assume that you will take lessons and enjoy the music that comes with my gift. But instead you use my gift as a planter and remove the strings and put dirt in it. The fine wood eventually warps from the water and the music is never played. All of my intentions for that gift are squished and you basically made a mockery of the guitar therefore greatly offending me since I knew how much you love music and how much I love you.

An infinite Almighty God gives us gifts and expects nothing less than our respect and love in return. What may seem like a minor sin may be a great insult to God whose love makes every gift immeasurable. So when the gift of life is abused as in murder or the gift of sex is misused as in masturbation it results in an immense insult to God which is grave matter. Yes, Adam and Eve only ate a fruit and it changed humanity whereby Jesus had to come and die to reconcile that disobedience. So whether you eat a fruit that God commanded us not to or we murder another person, it is the will of God that we utilize His love as He intends. Our ways are not His ways and we are not to rationalize which offenses hurt God more. Murder is a selfish act of the disrespect of life and masturbation is a selfish act of the disrespect of our sexuality.

God sees the big picture and we might view murder as the most heinous of crimes whereby God knows that the soul of the murdered person remains with Him for all eternity. We see murder as an end and God sees it as an evil means by which its consequence renders sorrow for those left behind but eternal joy for the person who was killed. It’s the hatred or great lack of love that determines the gravity of sin and whenever an act is selfish, love can never be promoted. The more selfish the act, the graver the sin.

This is my view and I hope it helps a little…teachccd

 

[teachccd]

Also remember that grave matter is only one of the three requirements for the sin to be a mortal sin. So if we are ignorant of what constitutes grave matter then the awareness of how much our selfishness offends God is removed and our culpability is reduced. This does not, however, allow us to discern what is grave matter and water it down using our own faculties when we initially knew that it is grave matter. Ultimately God knows our hearts better than we do and we cannot fool Him. (See Luke 12:48)

 

[DanteAlighieri]

Lets say that I give you a top of the line guitar as a gift. With that I would assume that you will take lessons and enjoy the music that comes with my gift. But instead you use my gift as a planter and remove the strings and put dirt in it. The fine wood eventually warps from the water and the music is never played. All of my intentions for that gift are squished and you basically made a mockery of the guitar therefore greatly offending me since I knew how much you love music and how much I love you. (snip)

To take this metaphor further, let’s illustrate the relative gravity of murder versus masturbation.

Consider the guitar as the image of our sexuality. Conversely, if teachccd were to give you a house that is fully stocked with every kinck-knack, stick of furniture and stitch of clothing you could ever need to be yourself, that might be analogous to the gift of life. Thus, it is more grave for me to burn that house down (murder) than it is for you to turn the guitar into a planter (masturbation). The house is gone; the guitar is just sullied.

Thus, there are mortal sins that are inherently more grave than others – adultery is more grave than masturbation; murder is more grave than adultery – because of the amount of harm they do to the sinner as well as to the victim (if there is one).

Peace,
Dante

 

[fix]

But the Catechism does not reference this Bible story when it discusses masturbation; therefore, I do not believe it is the basis for the teachings. In fact, the Catechism never refers to this Bible story (and that is why it surprises me that it is mentioned on this site as much as it is).

And again, I am only using masturbation vs murder as an example for my general question. I am looking to find out how the Church determines which sins involve grave matter and which ones do not. Is there nothing out there that explains this? If you do not know, that’s fine…perhaps someone else does…

Sexual sins are always grave matter.

As for this one particular sexual sin this is a start:

The traditional Catholic doctrine that masturbation constitutes a grave moral disorder is often called into doubt or expressly denied today. It is said that psychology and sociology show that it is a normal phenomenon of sexual development, especially among the young…

This opinion is contradictory to the teaching and pastoral practice of the Catholic Church. Whatever the force of certain arguments of a biological and philosophical nature, which have sometimes been used by theologians, in fact both the Magisterium of the Church - in the course of a constant tradition - and the moral sense of the faithful have declared without hesitation that masturbation is an intrinsically and seriously disordered act.[19] The main reason is that, whatever the motive for acting this way, the deliberate use of the sexual faculty outside normal conjugal relations essentially contradicts the finality of the faculty…

All deliberate exercise of sexuality must be reserved to this regular relationship. Even if it cannot be proved that Scripture condemns this sin by name, the tradition of the Church has rightly understood it to be condemned in the New Testament when the latter speaks of “impurity,” “unchasteness” and other vices contrary to chastity and continence.

DECLARATION ON CERTAIN QUESTIONS
CONCERNING SEXUAL ETHICS

And this:

According to the Church’s teaching, mortal sin, which is opposed to God, does not consist only in formal and direct resistance to the commandment of charity. It is equally to be found in this opposition to authentic love which is included in every deliberate transgression, in serious matter, of each of the moral laws.

A person therefore sins mortally not only when his action comes from direct contempt for love of God and neighbor, but also when he consciously and freely, for whatever reason, chooses something which is seriously disordered. For in this choice, as has been said above, there is already included contempt for the Divine commandment: the person turns himself away from God and loses charity. Now according to Christian tradition and the Church’s teaching, and as right reason also recognizes, the moral order of sexuality involves such high values of human life that every direct violation of this order is objectively serious.[24]

 

[Seatuck]

A study into the Natural Law might be beneficial.

The church does not need the exact wording to be present in scripture for it to declare something immoral. Christ gave the power to bind and loose to the church. He built a church with 3 legs. Scripture, Holy Tradition and the Magesterium. We are to hold fast to the traditions as taught to us. The church existed for years before the New Testament was codified and determined to be scripture. She is guided by the Holy Spirit as Jesus promised.

Intending to sin is pretty much at the core for me. It doesn’t much matter what the sin is. When I intend to sin despite knowing the ramifications and what the church teaches it has the same end result. I am setting myself apart from God with my disobedience. Some times the “apartness” is fleeting like when it is a venial sin and I am able to tell him I’m sorry I wish I hadn’t done that. Some times it is more solid and lasting and I really need to get to confession as Christ established for me.