How Does the Pope Know what is True?

[joshrp]

Hi,

I was wondering how the Pope knows what is true? How does He go about discerning what is true doctrine and what is false? We often argue about why he is never wrong. Why can’t we talk about why he is always right?

Joshua

 

[Rence]

According to Church teaching, the Pope is led by the guidance of the Holy Spirit and this guidance, they teach, renders him incapable of erring in matters of faith and morals.

I have never read anything but layperson opinion that supports a notion that his own free will is somehow erased, or doesn’t factor into his reception of guidance of the Holy Spirit. And I have never read anything but layperson opinion that supports the notion (or explains how) that his own opinions, values, beliefs, biases (or even fears) don’t factor into the interpretation of guidance of the Holy Spirit. But maybe someone will see this thread and help out with that.

 

[joshrp]

According to Church teaching, the Pope is led by the guidance of the Holy Spirit and this guidance, they teach, renders him incapable of erring in matters of faith and morals.

I have never read anything but layperson opinion that supports a notion that his own free will is somehow erased, or doesn’t factor into his reception of guidance of the Holy Spirit. And I have never read anything but layperson opinion that supports the notion (or explains how) that his own opinions, values, beliefs, biases (or even fears) don’t factor into the interpretation of guidance of the Holy Spirit. But maybe someone will see this thread and help out with that.

Has the Pope written anything on Papal infallibility?

 

[beth40n2]

First we need to clarify papal infalability. The pope does sin, he does make mistakes and the infallibility comes in for items of faith.

What the Catechism of the Catholic Church says on “Papal Infallibility:”
889. “In order to preserve the Church in the purity of the faith handed on by the apostles, Christ who is the Truth willed to confer on her a share in his own infallibility. By a ‘supernatural sense of faith’ the People of God, under the guidance of the Church’s living Magisterium, ‘unfailingly adheres to this faith.’ [LG 12; cf. DV 10.]”
890. “The mission of the Magisterium is linked to the definitive nature of the covenant established by God with his people in Christ. It is this Magisterium’s task to preserve God’s people from deviations and defections and to guarantee them the objective possibility of professing the true faith without error. Thus, the pastoral duty of the Magisterium is aimed at seeing to it that the People of God abides in the truth that liberates. To fulfill this service, Christ endowed the Church’s shepherds with the charism of infallibility in matters of faith and morals. The exercise of this charism takes several forms.”
891. “‘The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful - who confirms his brethren in the faith he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals… The infallibility promised to the Church is also present in the body of bishops when, together with Peter’s successor, they exercise the supreme Magisterium,’ above all in an Ecumenical Council. [LG 25; cf. Vatican Council I: DS 3074.] **When the Church through its supreme Magisterium proposes a doctrine ‘for belief as being divinely revealed,’ [DV 10 # 2.] and as the teaching of Christ, the definitions ‘must be adhered to with the obedience of faith.’ [LG 25 # 2.] This infallibility extends as far as the deposit of divine Revelation itself. [Cf. LG 25.]”**2035. “The supreme degree of participation in the authority of Christ is ensured by the charism of infallibility. This infallibility extends as far as does the deposit of divine Revelation; it also extends to all those elements of doctrine, including morals, without which the saving truths of the faith cannot be preserved, explained, or observed. [Cf. LG 25; CDF, declaration, Mysterium Ecclesiae 3.]”
2051. “The infallibility of the Magisterium of the Pastors extends to all the elements of doctrine, including moral doctrine, without which the saving truths of the faith cannot be preserved, expounded, or observed.”

 

[joshrp]

First we need to clarify papal infalability. The pope does sin, he does make mistakes and the infallibility comes in for items of faith.

What the Catechism of the Catholic Church says on “Papal Infallibility:”
889. “In order to preserve the Church in the purity of the faith handed on by the apostles, Christ who is the Truth willed to confer on her a share in his own infallibility. By a ‘supernatural sense of faith’ the People of God, under the guidance of the Church’s living Magisterium, ‘unfailingly adheres to this faith.’ [LG 12; cf. DV 10.]”
890. “The mission of the Magisterium is linked to the definitive nature of the covenant established by God with his people in Christ. It is this Magisterium’s task to preserve God’s people from deviations and defections and to guarantee them the objective possibility of professing the true faith without error. Thus, the pastoral duty of the Magisterium is aimed at seeing to it that the People of God abides in the truth that liberates. To fulfill this service, Christ endowed the Church’s shepherds with the charism of infallibility in matters of faith and morals. The exercise of this charism takes several forms.”
891. “‘The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful - who confirms his brethren in the faith he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals… The infallibility promised to the Church is also present in the body of bishops when, together with Peter’s successor, they exercise the supreme Magisterium,’ above all in an Ecumenical Council. [LG 25; cf. Vatican Council I: DS 3074.] **When the Church through its supreme Magisterium proposes a doctrine ‘for belief as being divinely revealed,’ [DV 10 # 2.] and as the teaching of Christ, the definitions ‘must be adhered to with the obedience of faith.’ [LG 25 # 2.] This infallibility extends as far as the deposit of divine Revelation itself. [Cf. LG 25.]”**2035. “The supreme degree of participation in the authority of Christ is ensured by the charism of infallibility. This infallibility extends as far as does the deposit of divine Revelation; it also extends to all those elements of doctrine, including morals, without which the saving truths of the faith cannot be preserved, explained, or observed. [Cf. LG 25; CDF, declaration, Mysterium Ecclesiae 3.]”
2051. “The infallibility of the Magisterium of the Pastors extends to all the elements of doctrine, including moral doctrine, without which the saving truths of the faith cannot be preserved, expounded, or observed.”

How does the Pope know what the Holy Spirit is telling him?

 

[ctkrcia]

How does the Pope know what the Holy Spirit is telling him?

Simply put, he prays. And prays. And then prays some more.

To elaborate, in recent times, the Pope consults with his fellow bishops before making an infallible statement. He seeks the council from the church leaders around the world. He also considers the state of the non-believing world and the possible impact of his statement. While the truth cannot be hidden under a basket, it may need to be disseminated in incremental steps.

A priest I once knew told a story about him and his seminary professor. He told his professor he didn’t understand a certain Bible story where the person in the Bible knew something was God’s will. The professor asked him if he felt God was calling him to the priesthood, to which he responded, “Yes”. The professor asked him how HE KNEW it was God calling. The point was made.

There are times in all of our lives where we “just know”. How do you know when you are in love? How do you know when you find the person you want to spend the rest of your life with? How do you know Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist? It all comes down to faith. As a friend of mine said when explaining the Real Presence to his non-Catholic mother, “You just know.”

This is how I see the Holy Father when considering making a doctrinal statement. He does it with faith, but also with a lot of prayer to insure that his personal will is set aside and God’s will be done.

 

[Evan]

Hi,

I was wondering how the Pope knows what is true? How does He go about discerning what is true doctrine and what is false? We often argue about why he is never wrong. Why can’t we talk about why he is always right?

Joshua

Papal infallibility is a negative gift. It protects him from error, it does not enlighten him.

If he were given a 100 question theological exam, and his answers need to be infallible. He would get none wrong. But he also might not be able to answer any.

For example: The question of the existence of Limbo for unbaptized infants has been asked of Councils and Popes and, to this date, there is no answer. If a Pope defines Yes or No, we know he will be right. But no Pope has found an answer to this question within his walk with the Lord.

 

[tomarin]

The Pope isn’t any more infallible than you or I when predicting the winner of the next Super Bowl.

 

[Wardog]

I also understand that this is why Popes ask for our prayers and God’s foregiveness through Reconciliation. With this much power comes great responsiblity (it’s not just a Spider-man thing); the Pope knows if he gets it wrong, if he misunderstands the Holy Spirit and makes a mistake (and yes, he has free will and can make mistakes) then his mistake will be more dangerous and costly than the mistakes we can make. This normally makes the most egotistical person ( and many Cardinals are egotistic) into a very humble person once he dons the robes of the Pope.

 

[fhansen]

Hi,

I was wondering how the Pope knows what is true? How does He go about discerning what is true doctrine and what is false? We often argue about why he is never wrong. Why can’t we talk about why he is always right?

Joshua

Infallibility is simply a gift or charism given to the Church through the Pope and the Magistereum, that guarantees that the gates of hell won’t prevail against the Church-that no error will ever enter her doctrine. It means that error won’t enter regardless or in *spite of *man’s ignorance, weakness, sinfulness, personal agenda, political persuasions, etc.

 

[Planty_Pall]

Hi,

I was wondering how the Pope knows what is true? How does He go about discerning what is true doctrine and what is false? We often argue about why he is never wrong. Why can’t we talk about why he is always right?

Joshua

Hi Joshua.

It seems like you might have an exaggerated view of the teaching of the Church on papal infallibility. Maybe it could be helpful to reconsider your apparent view on this subject. I do not think every pope is always right. The Fathers of Vatican Council knew very well that it would be historically indefensible to try to defend every belief ever expressed by a pope. Predictably, they drew very narrow lines to show that popes very rarely speak infallibly.

Further more, the doctrine of papal infallibility does NOT imply that the pope arrives at truth in any way different from anyone else. Any pope can hold to false views, but the promise to the Church is that if and when a pope speaks in his capacity as pope, for the purpose of defining a matter of faith and morals as binding upon all the faithful, he will not be permitted to teach error. This will not occur because of some single extraordinary mechanism by which all popes have any special knowledge, but simply because God will not let the Church be so misguided, using whatsoever means He may to prevent the pope from definitively leading the Church into error.

PP

 

[Planty_Pall]

Simply put, he prays. And prays. And then prays some more.

But ctkrcia, do you hold that 264 popes have all been devout like that?

There is more to it than that. We have had a long line now since the times of Luther of devout popes who undoubtedly pray, but what about before that? That’s only 500 years accounted for. I don’t think any Catholic with a knowledge of our history will fail to admit that we have had between ten and twenty popes who were worldly and a disgrace to their holy calling. It seems difficult to believe that a pope “prays and prays and prays some more” about doctrine, and then goes to visit their mistress. There is something else that prevents bad popes from definitively leading the Church into error. I would suggest that it can be a variety of things that reduce to God’s good providence for His Church.

 

[Usagi]

As far as I know, none of the “bad popes” ever bothered to make binding doctrinal definitions. They may have sinned quite happily, but they did not seem to have a particular drive to impose their errors on the entire Church. (Of course, one hopes that most Christians would know to ignore a declaration like “Adultery ROCKS” even in the absence of the charism of infallibility.)

Exactly how God arranged that, I doubt we can know this side of Heaven. Like PP, I suspect it varies in different cases.

The usual example given of a very visible manifestation of infallibility is the case of the Pope who was about to promulgate his own, highly error-ridden Bible translation. He died suddenly and the project was abandoned. That is presumed to be the most extreme example of what God would do to stop a Pope who is intent on leading the Church astray.

On the other hand, there was a Pope (John XXII, I believe) who personally believed, and occasionally preached in homilies, that we are not judged until the Last Day, leaving out the Particular Judgment entirely. Nothing in particular happened to him, but neither did he attempt to impose his belief on the whole Church, and I believe he may eventually have realized that he was in error. In any case, the next Pope made sure to very publicly teach the truth of the Particular Judgment.

So, basically, nothing unusual is expected to happen unless we get a Pope who is bound and determined to bind the entire Church to heresy or immorality. We additionally hope that the men elected will have deep prayer lives and seek the positive guidance of the Spirit in their actions and decisions, but that is not part of the charism of infallibility. God has not promised us invariably wise or good Popes (though we appreciate them when they arise), only that He will not permit even the most foolish or wicked Pope to screw up the whole Church.

Usagi

 

[ctkrcia]

But ctkrcia, do you hold that 264 popes have all been devout like that?

There is more to it than that. We have had a long line now since the times of Luther of devout popes who undoubtedly pray, but what about before that? That’s only 500 years accounted for. I don’t think any Catholic with a knowledge of our history will fail to admit that we have had between ten and twenty popes who were worldly and a disgrace to their holy calling. It seems difficult to believe that a pope “prays and prays and prays some more” about doctrine, and then goes to visit their mistress. There is something else that prevents bad popes from definitively leading the Church into error. I would suggest that it can be a variety of things that reduce to God’s good providence for His Church.

There have been bad popes in the past, for sure. They did some pretty horrific things in addition to fathering children, nepotism, etc. However, on the issues of faith and morals, no pope has made a dogmatic declaration that was later determined to be fallacious. Scripture tells us so. “Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven.” Matt 16:19 “I am with you always, until the end of time.” Matt 28:20 This supports your statement on God’s good providence, to which I wholeheartedly agree!

The point is that all these men are sinners. JPII was reported to go to confession on a weekly basis. As holy as that man was, he never put forth an infallible statement. Since the doctrine of infallibility was proclaimed in Vatican I, only two new tenets of faith have been proclaimed - the Assumption of Mary and the Queenship of Mary. Prior to that, doctrines were primarily declared as the result of a Church Council. And that was only after many many years of acceptance within the church community. It is the Holy Spirit that protects His church. And He has done so since it was first formed.

 

[Planty_Pall]

There have been bad popes in the past, for sure. They did some pretty horrific things in addition to fathering children, nepotism, etc. However, on the issues of faith and morals, no pope has made a dogmatic declaration that was later determined to be fallacious. Scripture tells us so. “Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven.” Matt 16:19 “I am with you always, until the end of time.” Matt 28:20 This supports your statement on God’s good providence, to which I wholeheartedly agree!

The point is that all these men are sinners. JPII was reported to go to confession on a weekly basis. As holy as that man was, he never put forth an infallible statement. Since the doctrine of infallibility was proclaimed in Vatican I, only two new tenets of faith have been proclaimed - the Assumption of Mary and the Queenship of Mary. Prior to that, doctrines were primarily declared as the result of a Church Council. And that was only after many many years of acceptance within the church community. It is the Holy Spirit that protects His church. And He has done so since it was first formed.

Hi again ctkrcia.

We are agreed then in principle. I would go so far as to say that Pope John Paul’s declaration on female ordination might be infallible. (I don’t think it is completely clear at this time when a pope crosses that line and his statement is ex cathedra).

Anyway, I was concerned that our original poster has what seems like an untenable view of the knowledge of popes. I didn’t want him to find out later that there were bad popes who probably didn’t pray very much. Protestants often seem to assume that papal infalllibility means popes are “always right”, and that fails to recognize what you point out. Papal infallibility is a rarely exercised prerogative of the pope.

So thanks for your kindly reply. We are agreed. Best wishes and God bless.

PP

 

[joshrp]

Hi again ctkrcia.

We are agreed then in principle. I would go so far as to say that Pope John Paul’s declaration on female ordination might be infallible. (I don’t think it is completely clear at this time when a pope crosses that line and his statement is ex cathedra).

Anyway, I was concerned that our original poster has what seems like an untenable view of the knowledge of popes. I didn’t want him to find out later that there were bad popes who probably didn’t pray very much. Protestants often seem to assume that papal infalllibility means popes are “always right”, and that fails to recognize what you point out. Papal infallibility is a rarely exercised prerogative of the pope.

So thanks for your kindly reply. We are agreed. Best wishes and God bless.

PP

When the Pope writes a document like an encyclical or an apostolic letter, does he do all the actual writing himself, or does he ask other people for help? I know he talks to other people, but is he the one who does the writing or can he ask someone else to write certain parts and they discuss it to make sure it is free from error?

 

[joshrp]

Also, how much authority do certain documents have? I have read a lot of encylicals by various Popes going back to Leo XIII, and I know there are other documents, I can’t remember what they are all called, I’d have to go back to the Vatican website. But do these documents have different degrees of authority?